Which laws are and are not valid?

john832 · May 19, 2015

Yes there was a change in the Law but what Law?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Let's read the previous verse...

Heb 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?

We are speaking of the change from the Aaronic (Levitical) Priesthood BACK to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Notice here...

Gen 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High.

The Priesthood was originally the Melchizedek Priesthood. God gave the Aaronic Priesthood to Aarons sons but Christ was re-installed in the Melchizedek Priesthood at His resurrection.

Now, what Law was changed? Hebrews 7 tells us...

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

Christ was a Jew of the tribe of Judah. He could not serve in the Temple or the Aaronic Priesthood...

Exo 28:1 "Now take Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister to Me as priest, Aaron and Aaron's sons: Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

Only Aaron's sons could serve as Priests. Christ gave this Law and since He will not BREAK the very least of His Laws, it had to be changed before He could become Priest again...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Elin · May 19, 2015

just-me said:

You're reaching. . .you need a law for that?

Do you flush the toilet without a law?

Elin · May 19, 2015

newlife7 said:

Hey Elin this post has nothing to do about this thread . I just wanted to share something deep about Matthew 21:38 if you have not noticed it already. Notice in the scripture that
the husbandman mentioned in the parable actually knew that it was the owner's son. I think there is something much deeper going on in the world. I think when they say in the parable
come let us kill him and siege his inheritance, It
was actually part of the spiritual war we are in and not just people mistakenly not believing that Jesus was God's Son. Although some did make that mistake as pointed out to us in scripture.

Good point. . .reminds me of Ro 1:21, where the cause and the effect are stated.

Elin · May 19, 2015

JaumeJ said:

Yes, we follow the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers of the NT word of God.

Elin · May 19, 2015

JaumeJ said:

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them,
Mat 5:18 because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.

1Jn 2:2 It is he who is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world's.
1Jn 2:3 This is how we can be sure that we have come to know him: if we continually keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 The person who says, "I have come to know him," but does not continually keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth has no place in that person.

1Jn 2:5 But whoever continually keeps his commandments is the kind of person in whom God's love has truly been perfected. This is how we can be sure that we are in union with God:
1Jn 2:6 The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he himself lived.

Rev 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:

Reading the above, from God, Himself, will you continue to say we are not to be children of obedience according to the teaching and example of Jesus Christ. If so, you do not know Him. This is according to the Word, not an opinion.

Agreed. . .the entire NT is "according to the word", for it is the word of God.

JaumeJ · May 19, 2015

Elin, I am warning you. don't blitz me with a lot of posts to me at this time. It is nearing my bedtime and I do go to bed quite early here, just before sunset usuall.

You have stressed we being in the last days, and I have always believed this too. Much of what I know about the last times, day, is from the Old Testament, but much is also from the New. They corroborate one another.

Most NT only folks believe theTorah is translated as the Law. This is not completely tru, because Torah is full of teaching. The Old testament consists of the Writings, the Prophets and the Pentateuch. It always has.

The law used lawfully cannot harm someone who is saved, but to teach against the law flatly can,; this is according to our Savior, Jesus.

Our new person afdter having received Jesus Christ has one desire, and dthat is to pleae our Salvation. Jesus is God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and although it may sound bonkers to many, He never changes.

His wisdom is eternal.. We are not put here to post endless posts that seem to support the posture ot one person or another, we are here to share the understanding given us by the Holy Spirit, not leaning on our own understanding but hearing the Word by the Holy Spirt.

None of us know every thing, but certain simple points arequite clear. Obedience is our way, obedience of God. Disobedience is clearly stated as no our new nature.

Let us all, here, make an attempt to pealse the Father in or sharing. It is the way of Love, and god is Love.

God bless you, and I thank you for your great efforts in the forum. May the light of Jesus Christ fill you and may you shine the light for all to see in Spirit and truth, amen.......

Elin said:

Elin · May 19, 2015

john832 said:

That's pretty simple. . .it would be the law which the people received at Mt. Sinai,
the law which God set aside because it was weak and useless (unprofitable) to make them perfect
(Heb 7:18-19),
the law which God abolished on the cross (Eph 2:15),
the law that was the basis of the obsolete old covenant (Heb 8:13),
the law of the old covenant which Jesus fulfilled, accomplished, completed, finished,
as a means of righteousness, which is now only by grace through faith in him, not by law keeping,
which the NT views as a religious burden (Ac 15:28) involving burdensome tasks (Mt 23:4).

That law.

Elin · May 19, 2015

JaumeJ said:

Warning me. . .am I in danger?

And it is sometimes referred to as just "the law."

Did Paul teach against the law?

I present what Paul teaches. . .it is the word of God.

That would include all the born again.

Yes, obedience to the law of Christ (1 Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Mt 22:37-40) which is the new covenant commands given throughout the NT word of God.

The old covenant is obsolete.

eternallife7 · May 19, 2015

I just changed my screen name! Guess who this is. lol

just-me · May 19, 2015

eternallife7 said:

Did I previously have you on my ignore list? Just wanting a hint in who you used to be so I can do that again rightaway. LOL

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." Romans 3:19

eternallife7 · May 19, 2015

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Romans 3:21

JaumeJ · May 19, 2015

Almost 8:30, bedtime for some folkd. You are never in danger from the likes of me. We should share in the Holy Spirit, but this is an onlin forum, so itis unrealisitc to expect all to do or even understand this.

After a long time here, I have witnessed how many support whattever dogma they wish by picking and choosing loose text from tehWord without any actul interrelationship except what is imagnined by the poster.

Most folks do use the texts they select in fairly goo understanding, but we do fall into the danger (that word) of going off on ideas of the fleshy mind.

It is very easy to do, especially when we go completely away from the way taught by Jesus Christ and get wrapped up in the problems of various assemblies at the time of Paul. Some of those problems may be applied to our present assemblies, but many cannot due to the change in customs and what is or is not accepttable.

I have witness women filled with th Holy Spirit preaching the Word i a mst powerful manner. Paul would not allow such. Women used to be expected to cover their heads, now even the Catholic church has done way with this in many countries, even the doiddddly on the head.

So, I thik it would serve all well if we rely on what we know from the Holy Spirit fromwhen He firest entered into our being, whe we were renewed...............try it, you will like it . Always, blessing in Jesus Christ............

Elin said:

tourist · May 19, 2015

eternallife7 said:

Don't know and don't care.

eternallife7 · May 19, 2015

I'm pretty sure God cares

Elin · May 19, 2015

JaumeJ said:

"Run, Forest, run!"

So the revelation Paul received from Jesus Christ was simply regarding "problems of various assemblies," and was not God's will for the whole church.

Sorry. . .Paul is very clear that God's creation order established for his people--woman having no teaching authority over men in the church (1Tim 2:11-14)--is for all the assemblies, not just "various assemblies.

Sorry. . .Paul is very clear that he received his revelation personally from Jesus Christ--
caught up to the third heaven into Paradise and
hearing words unspeakable, which man is not permitted to tell,
given revelations so glorious and surpassingly great that to keep him from being exalted by them,
God gave him a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet him, and keep him humble.

So let me give you a warning regarding rejecting any of the word of God written in Paul's revelations from Jesus Christ.

You are setting yourself above the holy word of God. . .you judge its truth. . .and you find
God's holy NT word wanting.

Rather than letting the holy word of God judge you, you judge the holy word of God.

LET ME WARN YOU with the words of Jesus himself.

"Your own (unbelieving) words will condemn you." (Mt 12:37)
because they reveal your unbelief of the NT holy word of God.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

[The NT word of God reveals that the will of the Father for the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Gal 6:2) which is the law of God (1Co 9:21).
It is not the Mosaic regulations.]

Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles
(as well as our women "preaching the word in a most powerful manner")?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you who act wickedly--disregarding my
commands (e.g., the NT word written at 1Tim 2:11-14).' " (Mt 7:22-23)

And I think you have demonstrated well that what you think is simply unbelief of the NT word of God,
and such thinking is not to be admitted into the fellowship of Jesus Christ.

And I know that the Spirit and the Life are in the NT words of God written (Jn 6:63).
But I have no authority for knowing they are in anyone's personal impressions.

JaumeJ · May 20, 2015

I cannot respond if your reply has already changed the meaning o f what I have posted. I did specify exampols. It is moot to have any exchange in dialogue when this is occurring. God bless you. I belong to Jesus Christ. first and foremost, as do all who have come to Him in spirit and truth. I like to believe you do also.

The warning was intended to give you a smile. It is my manner of underscoring, how you blitz folks, and me when I have been up all day ready to hit the hay. I thought you would understnd that since I did explain it previously. Sorry you did not.

Elin said:

"Run, Forest, run!"

So the revelation Paul received from Jesus Christ was simply regarding "problems of various assemblies," and was not God's will for the whole church.

Sorry. . .Paul is very clear that God's creation order established for his people--woman having no teaching authority over men in the church (1Tim 2:11-14)--is for all the assemblies, not just "various assemblies.

Sorry. . .Paul is very clear that he received his revelation personally from Jesus Christ--
caught up to the third heaven into Paradise and
hearing words unspeakable, which man is not permitted to tell,
given revelations so glorious and surpassingly great that to keep him from being exalted by them,
God gave him a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet him, and keep him humble.

So let me give you a warning regarding rejecting any of the word of God written in Paul's revelations from Jesus Christ.

You are setting yourself above the holy word of God. . .you judge its truth. . .and you find
God's holy NT word wanting.

Rather than letting the holy word of God judge you, you judge the holy word of God.

LET ME WARN YOU with the words of Jesus himself.

"Your own (unbelieving) words will condemn you." (Mt 12:37)
because they reveal your unbelief of the NT holy word of God.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

[The NT word of God reveals that the will of the Father for the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Gal 6:2) which is the law of God (1Co 9:21).
It is not the Mosaic regulations.]

Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles
(as well as our women "preaching the word in a most powerful manner")?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you who act wickedly--disregarding my
commands (e.g., the NT word written at 1Tim 2:11-14).' " (Mt 7:22-23)

And I think you have demonstrated well that what you think is simply unbelief of the NT word of God,
and such thinking is not to be admitted into the fellowship of Jesus Christ.

And I know that the Spirit and the Life are in the NT words of God written (Jn 6:63).
But I have no authority for knowing they are in anyone's personal impressions.

just-me · May 20, 2015

The question is, "what was Paul doing 14 to 15 years before he wrote his 2nd letter to the Corinthians?" The nearest I can tell is that Paul and Barnabas were in Antioch, or it was when Barnabas went to Tarsus to bring Paul to Antioch.

2 Corinthians 12:2-7 was written in 56-57 AD
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I knew a man in Christ above (more than) fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth), such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In verse 5 Paul defines a stark difference between himself, and who he will give glory to. He knew a man 14 to 15 years previously that he will give glory to, but not himself.

Translated from the Aramaic English New Testament
2. I knew a man in Mashiyach fourteen years ago - but whether in a body, or whether out of a body, I don't know; Elohim knows - who was caught up to the third (region) of heaven.

The "third heaven" is a reference to the future judgment hall of the "Ancient of Days" as mentioned in Daniel 7.

3. And I knew this man; but whether in a body, or out of a body, I don't know; (only) Elohim knows;
4. And he was caught up to Paradise and heard ineffable Words, which is not permitted a man to utter.

One may ask themselves, if this was Paul that was privy to these things that were spoken to him, why would God have wanted him to hear words that he couldn't use for his appointed ministry? If anybody knows, and can give logical reason, I would appreciate it. I ask for reason that is understandable.

5. Of him I will glory; but of myself I will not boast, except in my sickness.
6. Yet if I were inclined to boast, I should not be without reason; for I declare truth. But I hold back, or else anyone should think of me beyond what he sees in me and hears from me.
7. And, that I might not be uplifted by the excellence of revelation, there was given also to me a thorn in my flesh, the Messenger of Satan, to attack me that I might not be uplifted.

Paul's explanations to the Corinthians about what happened would have been sometime between the years of 41-43 AD. (Acts l5-l7)
The book of 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Corinthians is a Pauline Epistle (letter from Paul). The Apostle Paul wrote it about 56 A.D.
Paul received his revelation while either at Tarsus, or at Antioch well after his conversion. He had been ministering the "mystery" of the kingdom for 6 years previous this event told to the Corinthians.

If it was Paul who was caught up into the third heaven and heard "unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter," then this event doesn't apply to the "mystery" of what was revealed to Paul minister.

Ephesians 3:2-9
[SUP]2 [/SUP]If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Grandpa · May 20, 2015

Elin said:

Hebrews 7:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

To find out what law was changed all you had to do was read about 4 verses further on...

Its very easily and simply explained. I'm not 100% sure why people twist it and complicate it. Is it on purpose or is it because they still have the veil over their minds?

Galatians 3:24-25

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law (that was weak and unprofitable) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ (the better hope), that we might be justified by faith.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (that made nothing perfect anyway).

Why is the law that God gave to Moses described as weak and unprofitable? Because men, in their own understanding, think their work at it will satisfy and fulfill it. But the law is enmity to men and their understanding. You may as well hand your car keys to your dog. I would expect about the same results...

When we come to Christ, by faith, we are given a new understanding. We realize that our strength and understanding didn't come close to satisfying God and His Perfect Law. Only Christ and His Power is able to satisfy and fulfill the law.

After we have taken our dog for a ride in the car, you never see him thinking he can do it by himself and trying to. He knows he has to be with his master to go for the ride.

Only people who have come to Christ understand the scriptures. I'm not sure why anyone who has come to Christ would favor the OT over the NT. It makes no sense. We follow Torah. What? Why? It would be much better to leave the weak and beggarly and start following Christ. Does the Torah tell you anything about the bringing in of a better hope? You can't even understand anything in the Torah if you haven't been to Christ. And when you have come to Christ you find out it wasn't by your work that the Torah requires that causes your Salvation. You are righteous and blessed by the Author of the Torah, who wrote it so you would come to Him. To favor Torah is to turn your back on the Saviour who saved you. To try and drive around without your master, by your own understanding.

Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

This is fun. Let's keep un-veiling the Lord to His People...

passing_through · May 20, 2015

Thank God that he fulfilled the law, and another thing, the law was given to the Jews - I am not a Jew.

He who has ears to hear let him hear.

just-me · May 20, 2015

passing_through said:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.Romans 1:16

Romans 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

"Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Deuteronomy 29:4

The wine (content) is still good, the container is spent and obsolete.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15

Which laws are and are not valid?

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