When does the rapture occur?
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Discerning the times from the nightly news, that is a very BIG IF:
Matthew 24:6-7 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
Those things have been going on for Decades, so how much closer are we to EVERY NATION HATING ISRAEL. Even Obama appears to have a DISLIKE FOR ISRAEL NOW.
Matthew 24:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.
Now there is a pre-trib verse that I overlooked. For all nations to HATE Israel, because of the name of JESUS CHRIST; doesn't the CHURCH have to be missing from the EARTH, and the Two Witnesses' Ministry COMPLETED? He is speaking to some of his disciples, who were ALL JEWS, and Citizens of Israel. Doesn't that you then clearly point to ISRAEL?
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You didn't answer my question. In Mat 24 was Jesus warning everyone that he was coming to kill them all but would cut the days of His killings short (for the sake of the Elect) or He would kill everyone? That to you is Christ doing the killing
?
This is why Christ tells us to stay inside and don't go out because there will be a false one claiming to be him? Sorry, such thinking is borderline insane.
? This is why Christ tells us to stay inside and don't go out because there will be a false one claiming to be him? Sorry, such thinking is borderline insane.
F
To the contrary:
From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem [Nehemiah 2] until the time of Messiah the Prince will be 7 weeks [49 years] and 62 weeks [434 years]...and after [at the end of] the 62 weeks [434 years] Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing...
To the contrary:
Messiah began His ministry in the middle of the 69th (7+62) week. Since Messiah's crucifixion marks the end of the 69th week.
From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of Messiah the Prince will be 7 weeks and 62 weeks...and after the 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing...
Daniel 9:25-26.
Christ died at the end of the (69th) week. At the end of 483 years from Artaxerxes' decree to rebuild Jerusalem in Nehemiah 2. Leaving one week (7 years) "apportioned to Daniel's people" to be fulfilled.
Although His sacrifice of Himself brought an end to animal sacrifices for sin (Heb 10:9-10, 26; 7:27; 9:26-28), His earthly people did not receive Him or it (John 1:11; Rom 10:21; 11:8-10). And Messiah's fulfillment of the OT sacrifices, at the end of 69 weeks, is not what Daniel 9:27 is about.
To the contrary:
Daniel 9:25-27 on the 70 weeks, are orderly and in sequence.
...And after the 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off and have nothing; and the people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it will be with a flood, and even to the end there will be war, desolations are determined. And he [the prince whose people "will come"] will make a firm covenant with the many for one week and in the middle of the week he [the prince whose people will come] will cause the sacrifice and the oblation [the meal offering] to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator...
Messiah's new covenant is forever. Not for one week. Messiah the Prince is not "...the prince who will come" because the people of Messiah did not destroy the city and the temple. Not 3 1/2 years after the New Covenant began. Not ever. The New Covenant is not a 7 year covenant. Jerusalem was not destroyed when Messiah was crucified. Nor was Herod's temple. Nor were Israel's and Jerusalem's and the temple's sacrifices stopped then. Daniel 9:24-27 is about "70 weeks [490 years] apportioned for Daniel's people." Nor did nor will Messiah replace their sacrifices and oblation with "abominations of the desolator." The "prince who will come" is the desolator. That is not Christ. That is not Messiah the Prince. That isn't His title. The desolator first was Titus, the Roman leader and general who came and destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70, and carried the items of the temple to Rome. Titus (like Alexander and Antiochus, and even Nebuchadnezzar if not others in Daniel's prophecy) was a symbol, a type, a picture, of the ultimate emperor: the Antichrist, 666.
Paul, in Romans 11:27, applies that covenant to the future.
"I don't want you, brothers, to be ignorant of this mystery (lest you be wise in yourselves), that hardness has come upon Israel in part, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in [until Christ has reborn all the Gentiles He's gonna]; and thus all Israel will be saved [future tense], as it is written [by Isaiah]: 'The Deliverer will come out of Zion [cf Revelation 14:1 as well]; He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is the covenant from Me with them, when I take away their sins,'" Isaiah 59:19-21; Rom 11:25-27.
Yes Christ made propitiation for Israel through His execution as God's Lamb. But it is applied to Israel when Israel receives it, at Armageddon, Zechariah 11--14; Daniel 9:24; Isaiah 59:19-21; Romans 11:25-27.
To the contrary,
the Pause, the break (in the action of the 70 weeks), is not 37 years. But rather.........unknown, so far. It is still continuing. The church, the kingdom of God, is still being built (Mt 16:18; 1 Corinthians 3:10-12, 16-17). The final week, beginning with the Antichrist making "a firm covenant for 7 years with the many," has yet to happen. And should and will be a sign to the church that the Great Tribulation (beginning from when Antichrist breaks his own covenant), is just 3 1/2 years away.
Learn the parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch has become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near, Mt 24:32.
With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him...it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God...whom the Lord Jesus will slay by the breath of His mouth... 2 Thes 2:1-4, 8.
Seventy weeks are apportioned for your people and for your holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make propitiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies...And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week; and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator, even until the complete destruction that has been determined is poured out upon the desolator, Dan 9:24, 27.
When you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy Place (let him who reads understand), then let those in Judea flee to the mountains... Mt 24:15.
From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem [Nehemiah 2] until the time of Messiah the Prince will be 7 weeks [49 years] and 62 weeks [434 years]...and after [at the end of] the 62 weeks [434 years] Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing...
To the contrary:
Messiah began His ministry in the middle of the 69th (7+62) week. Since Messiah's crucifixion marks the end of the 69th week.
From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of Messiah the Prince will be 7 weeks and 62 weeks...and after the 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing...
Daniel 9:25-26.
Christ died at the end of the (69th) week. At the end of 483 years from Artaxerxes' decree to rebuild Jerusalem in Nehemiah 2. Leaving one week (7 years) "apportioned to Daniel's people" to be fulfilled.
Although His sacrifice of Himself brought an end to animal sacrifices for sin (Heb 10:9-10, 26; 7:27; 9:26-28), His earthly people did not receive Him or it (John 1:11; Rom 10:21; 11:8-10). And Messiah's fulfillment of the OT sacrifices, at the end of 69 weeks, is not what Daniel 9:27 is about.
To the contrary:
Daniel 9:25-27 on the 70 weeks, are orderly and in sequence.
...And after the 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off and have nothing; and the people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it will be with a flood, and even to the end there will be war, desolations are determined. And he [the prince whose people "will come"] will make a firm covenant with the many for one week and in the middle of the week he [the prince whose people will come] will cause the sacrifice and the oblation [the meal offering] to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator...
Messiah's new covenant is forever. Not for one week. Messiah the Prince is not "...the prince who will come" because the people of Messiah did not destroy the city and the temple. Not 3 1/2 years after the New Covenant began. Not ever. The New Covenant is not a 7 year covenant. Jerusalem was not destroyed when Messiah was crucified. Nor was Herod's temple. Nor were Israel's and Jerusalem's and the temple's sacrifices stopped then. Daniel 9:24-27 is about "70 weeks [490 years] apportioned for Daniel's people." Nor did nor will Messiah replace their sacrifices and oblation with "abominations of the desolator." The "prince who will come" is the desolator. That is not Christ. That is not Messiah the Prince. That isn't His title. The desolator first was Titus, the Roman leader and general who came and destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70, and carried the items of the temple to Rome. Titus (like Alexander and Antiochus, and even Nebuchadnezzar if not others in Daniel's prophecy) was a symbol, a type, a picture, of the ultimate emperor: the Antichrist, 666.
Paul, in Romans 11:27, applies that covenant to the future.
"I don't want you, brothers, to be ignorant of this mystery (lest you be wise in yourselves), that hardness has come upon Israel in part, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in [until Christ has reborn all the Gentiles He's gonna]; and thus all Israel will be saved [future tense], as it is written [by Isaiah]: 'The Deliverer will come out of Zion [cf Revelation 14:1 as well]; He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is the covenant from Me with them, when I take away their sins,'" Isaiah 59:19-21; Rom 11:25-27.
Yes Christ made propitiation for Israel through His execution as God's Lamb. But it is applied to Israel when Israel receives it, at Armageddon, Zechariah 11--14; Daniel 9:24; Isaiah 59:19-21; Romans 11:25-27.
To the contrary,
the Pause, the break (in the action of the 70 weeks), is not 37 years. But rather.........unknown, so far. It is still continuing. The church, the kingdom of God, is still being built (Mt 16:18; 1 Corinthians 3:10-12, 16-17). The final week, beginning with the Antichrist making "a firm covenant for 7 years with the many," has yet to happen. And should and will be a sign to the church that the Great Tribulation (beginning from when Antichrist breaks his own covenant), is just 3 1/2 years away.
Learn the parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch has become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near, Mt 24:32.
With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him...it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God...whom the Lord Jesus will slay by the breath of His mouth... 2 Thes 2:1-4, 8.
Seventy weeks are apportioned for your people and for your holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make propitiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies...And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week; and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator, even until the complete destruction that has been determined is poured out upon the desolator, Dan 9:24, 27.
When you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy Place (let him who reads understand), then let those in Judea flee to the mountains... Mt 24:15.
You didn't answer my question. In Mat 24 was Jesus warning everyone that he was coming to kill them all but would cut the days of His killings short (for the sake of the Elect) or He would kill everyone? That to you is Christ doing the killing?
?
The events Jesus is talking about are not events we will ever see.
K
No I did not make anything up, and nothing in that parable says they still received salvation.
If you think it does then you are reading what is not there, just like trying to make this scripture out to be about the rapture when it is not.
Matthew 25 is parables that all of them speak of eternal life and being prepared in this life so to receive it when the Lord comes to give it to us who are faithful.
You know this by reading and seeing what the Lord said to those who were not prepared;
10 Virgins
(Matthew 25:12) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Matthew 25:14-30 is about the servants who was given their gift and sent to bring others into the fold.
One however did not go out and do His will and bring others to the faith in Jesus Christ, so this is what Jesus said to him;
(Matthew 25:30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And do I really have to go on to the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46.
Where Jesus separates the faithful sheep from the unfaithful goats and gives the sheep eternal life, but gives the goats eternal punishment.
(Matthew 25:46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Each parable in Matthew 25 is about receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, and Jesus is showing in each one how only the faithful who do God's will get eternal life. Nowhere in any of those parables refer to the rapture/gathering together of believers to the Lord. For Jesus clearly shows multiple times only faithful servants get eternal life, not disobedient servants who do not obey the gospel.............
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
K
Nowhere in the bible does it say believers will escape the tribulation period, as the only thing it says we are not appointed to is to face God's wrath.
Revelation shows us that God's wrath is poured out in the vial judgments after the GT period, and then it also shows that there is only two resurrections. The first resurrection takes place right before the Millennial reign of Christ, which believers in Christ will be raised up (First the dead in Christ, then those who are still alive at the end of the GT). Then after the 1000 years are over, the rest of the dead are raised to stand before the great white judgment throne of God to face their judgment of how long their punishment will be in the lake of fire..........
Yes, we are not as Christians going to go through any Tribulation period. The Bride will remain spotless and unmolested, because the Bridegroom is going to catch her away to the wedding, while the Father finishes up with Israel for seven years.
God's wrath is poured out on the unbelieving world during the Tribulation period!
You're just mixed up, and converging two events into one.
God's wrath is poured out on the unbelieving world during the Tribulation period!
You're just mixed up, and converging two events into one.
F
To the contrary:
their very designation, "virgins," says they're born of God.
"I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ," 2 Cor 11:2.
"...for they are virgins..." Rev 14:4.
"You are altogether beautiful my love, and there is no blemish in you," Song of Songs 4:7.
etc.
Additionally, this parable is paired with the other warning to His regenerated children, Mt 24:45-51 and 25:14-30 involving His slaves. Unsaved unbelievers are not His virgins and His slaves.
"To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death," Paul.
Paul was a Christian when he wrote these words.
The Lord's judgment of His children is severe. (But not everlasting. It is temporary, Hebrews 12.)
He labels some as evil slaves, etc. Another example is the children of Israel who knew Jehovah's acts, whereas Moses knew His ways.
To the contrary regarding escape, a minority will:
"Be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man," Lk 21:36.
"Whoever seeks to preserve his soul-life will lose it, and whoever loses it will preserve it alive. I tell you, In that night there will be two in one bed; the one will be taken and the other will be left. There will be two women grinding together; the one will be taken but the other will be left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left. And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to them, Where the body [Antichrist] is, there also will the vultures [Christ and His army of saints] be gathered together," Lk 17:33-37.
"Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you [the church in brotherly love] out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth. I come quickly, hold fast..." Rev 3:10-11.
How long?
Forget about that for a moment. Or forever.
Paul sought the "outstanding-resurrection" as a prize, in Philippians 3. You can check the Greek, an interlinear etc, if your translation is deficient.
The wise believers in the parable of the virgins, woke up and arose from sleep. Signifying they'd physically died, and then resurrected. Ahead of the foolish believers.
Whereas the "firstfruits" in Revelation 14:1-5 correspond to or accompany the saints "taken" in Luke 17 and Matthew 24,
the "manchild" in Revelation 12 corresponds to the five wise virgins. In that the manchild also signifies resurrected (then raptured) overcoming Christians.
This is based on the matter of birth. Jesus was born from death into resurrection. He was firstborn from among the dead. You are My Son, this day I have begotten You---refers to the third day.
To the contrary, most Christians alive at the time will pass through the Great Tribulation. Because they've not "made themselves ready" yet for the wedding. But some will have. And they will escape "unmolested." Christ is working on His church, His Bride, Eph 5. But we too must work with Him, i.e. cooperate
their very designation, "virgins," says they're born of God.
"I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ," 2 Cor 11:2.
"...for they are virgins..." Rev 14:4.
"You are altogether beautiful my love, and there is no blemish in you," Song of Songs 4:7.
etc.
Additionally, this parable is paired with the other warning to His regenerated children, Mt 24:45-51 and 25:14-30 involving His slaves. Unsaved unbelievers are not His virgins and His slaves.
"To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death," Paul.
Paul was a Christian when he wrote these words.
The Lord's judgment of His children is severe. (But not everlasting. It is temporary, Hebrews 12.)
He labels some as evil slaves, etc. Another example is the children of Israel who knew Jehovah's acts, whereas Moses knew His ways.
To the contrary regarding escape, a minority will:
"Be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man," Lk 21:36.
"Whoever seeks to preserve his soul-life will lose it, and whoever loses it will preserve it alive. I tell you, In that night there will be two in one bed; the one will be taken and the other will be left. There will be two women grinding together; the one will be taken but the other will be left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left. And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to them, Where the body [Antichrist] is, there also will the vultures [Christ and His army of saints] be gathered together," Lk 17:33-37.
"Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you [the church in brotherly love] out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth. I come quickly, hold fast..." Rev 3:10-11.
How long?
Forget about that for a moment. Or forever.
Paul sought the "outstanding-resurrection" as a prize, in Philippians 3. You can check the Greek, an interlinear etc, if your translation is deficient.
The wise believers in the parable of the virgins, woke up and arose from sleep. Signifying they'd physically died, and then resurrected. Ahead of the foolish believers.
Whereas the "firstfruits" in Revelation 14:1-5 correspond to or accompany the saints "taken" in Luke 17 and Matthew 24,
the "manchild" in Revelation 12 corresponds to the five wise virgins. In that the manchild also signifies resurrected (then raptured) overcoming Christians.
This is based on the matter of birth. Jesus was born from death into resurrection. He was firstborn from among the dead. You are My Son, this day I have begotten You---refers to the third day.
To the contrary, most Christians alive at the time will pass through the Great Tribulation. Because they've not "made themselves ready" yet for the wedding. But some will have. And they will escape "unmolested." Christ is working on His church, His Bride, Eph 5. But we too must work with Him, i.e. cooperate
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You didn't answer my question. In Mat 24 was Jesus warning everyone that he was coming to kill them all but would cut the days of His killings short (for the sake of the Elect) or He would kill everyone? That to you is Christ doing the killing?
This is why Christ tells us to stay inside and don't go out because there will be a false one claiming to be him? Sorry, such thinking is borderline insane.
? This is why Christ tells us to stay inside and don't go out because there will be a false one claiming to be him? Sorry, such thinking is borderline insane.
Man, you get everything mixed up don't you.
Matthew 24:21-22 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And if those days had not been cut short, {those days of the Great Tribulation are limited to 7 years maximum, which includes both the Pouring out of His Wrath and the Antichrist's executions of those who refuse to bow to him.} no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect { the 144,000 } those days will be cut short.
F
Thanks Nancy. Thanks for your earlier interpretations.
I'm still persuaded (though I am of course open) that being born again will not be "on the table" anymore,
during Antichrist's 3 1/2 year reign. (Only, except, for the nation of Israel, like I said, at Armageddon.)
Even if I did believe that anyone could become saved, a child of the King! born of the Spirit, born from above, during the Tribulation, I myself could never suggest that such a one is "not part of the Bride of Christ." Believers into Christ, before Armageddon, are, by definition, the church, the Body, the bride, of Christ. And His marriage will last 1000 years.
Thank you!
I'm still persuaded (though I am of course open) that being born again will not be "on the table" anymore,
during Antichrist's 3 1/2 year reign. (Only, except, for the nation of Israel, like I said, at Armageddon.)
Even if I did believe that anyone could become saved, a child of the King! born of the Spirit, born from above, during the Tribulation, I myself could never suggest that such a one is "not part of the Bride of Christ." Believers into Christ, before Armageddon, are, by definition, the church, the Body, the bride, of Christ. And His marriage will last 1000 years.
Thank you!
OK, so your view is that only Jews will receive their Messiah, then?
As for the Bride...she will have already experienced the wedding and stood before Christ to receive her rewards and will be coming with Him to close Tribulation and begin the Millennial Reign. Those who have received their messiah in the meantime will not be part of the Church or the Bride because they missed the wedding, but will be counted as the friends of the Bridegroom.
As for the Bride...she will have already experienced the wedding and stood before Christ to receive her rewards and will be coming with Him to close Tribulation and begin the Millennial Reign. Those who have received their messiah in the meantime will not be part of the Church or the Bride because they missed the wedding, but will be counted as the friends of the Bridegroom.
K
You will find no biblical support that says Christians will not go through the tribulation.............
It says we are not appointed to face God's wrath, and the 7 years tribulation with the last 3 1/2 being the Great Tribulation is not God's wrath. This is a false teaching that the whole tribulation is God's wrath, for here is the timeline of the the tribulation.
First 3 1/2 years the man of sin comes to power, in the middle he goes into Jerusalem and stands in the temple claiming to be God. From here he starts persecuting and killing Jews and Christians all around the world.
God's wrath is poured out at the end of the GT with Jesus returning at the battle of Armageddon and casts the man of sin and false prophet in the lake of fire. First resurrection takes place, millennial reign of Christ, then Satan released and the second resurrection after the 1,000 years have finished..........
K
You are trying to interject scriptures that have nothing to do with this parable, and a person being a virgin does not automatically mean they have salvation.
Lord Jesus says clearly to the 5 foolish virgins He never knew them, which goes along with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:23.....If He says He never knew a person it means they do not have eternal life coming to them !!!!
Second notice how the scriptures you give say nothing about escaping the tribulation period, and Luke 17:33-37 is after the day of the Lord, not before.....
Last of all once again Apostle Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the man of sin has to be revealed first before the gathering takes place. The man of sin is not revealed tell the middle of the 7 years, not the beginning of it......
Lord Jesus says clearly to the 5 foolish virgins He never knew them, which goes along with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:23.....If He says He never knew a person it means they do not have eternal life coming to them !!!!
Second notice how the scriptures you give say nothing about escaping the tribulation period, and Luke 17:33-37 is after the day of the Lord, not before.....
Last of all once again Apostle Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the man of sin has to be revealed first before the gathering takes place. The man of sin is not revealed tell the middle of the 7 years, not the beginning of it......
K
Read Revelation 19 as it says and shows that after the events of the GT does the marriage and marriage supper of the Lamb take place. The marriage and marriage supper does not take place during or before the GT, nor does it have two separate timings of it taking place. It happens once and takes place after the events of the GT.
F
To the contrary:
this parable is addressed to the disciples. It's not a lesson on "hell vs heaven."
Nonbelievers are not virgins nor slaves to the Lord.
It's easier to deny or discount something. On the affirmative or interpretive side, feel welcome to suggest why you think the Lord selected the word "virgins." When you have the time.
To the contrary:
It depends on the context. Any word, including the word "know," derives its precise meaning and sense from the immediate context in which it is used. That's the way.............language works.
Mt 7:23 is also spoken to disciples about disciples. It is not to nor about unbelievers. Unbelievers don't call Him "Lord." Whoever calls Him "Lord" knows and has Him to that extent. "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
The ones in Mt 7 cast out demons in His name, and prophesy in His name. But He never acknowledged what they did. He never told them to do that specifically. That is the sense of the word "knew" there. Likewise in Mt 25. Paul said that he wanted to know the Lord. You read it. I assume. In Philippians 3. That is the same word. "Know." Since Paul was saved, why did he need to know the Lord? The answer is: because knowing the Lord is more than just being saved from eternal hell. Being born of God, as a child of God..............is just the start. The permanent, irrevocable, start. But still just the start. That's what we have to do: gain the Holy Spirit. And multiply the weights, the "talents," the Christ whom we've received. That's..........what Christians are accountable to their Lord. And He is serious. Both as a Bridegroom and a Lord.
It is a no-brainer that unbelievers don't know the Lord, that unbelievers aren't with the Lord for eternity. Nor for 1000 years.
That is not the message or thought of Mt 7 and 25.........nor of most of the Bible. The Bible is written to believers...........by far mostly ABOUT believers.
As a side point, you've (properly, in this example) interjected the name "Jesus" into Mt 25. So then.........who are "virgins" to Jesus? Nonbelievers? Rejectors of Jesus? Those who don't believe into Christ are "already condemned," John 3. They don't need a parable warning that unless they get oil in their vessels (in addition to their lamps) then they are going to be lost.
Lol.
Jesus is the Bridegroom. His people collectively are His Bride. Individually, we all are to be pure for Him, as His lovers.
To the contrary:
"escape" is one of the actual words in Luke 21:36. It couldn't be clearer.
I prefer Jesus' words to yours, no matter how tougher (or not) they seem to be:
Be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man.
Likewise with Revelation 3:10.
Because you have kept.....I will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come....
In regards to your silly, non-reading of Luke 17 (no offence), 17:20-24 describes His coming.
Then 25 He digresses:
"But first He [the Son of Man] must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation."
Lol. Does that mean that the Son of Man's suffering happened AFTER His coming?
Please. The Bible is written normally and sanely. All you need to do is read it.
Then in 26 He returns to the topic of "the days of the Son of Man" in the future.
But DAYS of. Not the very moment of His return. But the days leading up to it. His coming, broadly, after all,
is as much as 3 1/2 years long. Depending on the context of the given verse.
"Even as it happened in the days of Noah, so wil l it be also in the days of the Son of Man."
They were eating, they were drinking....UNTIL the DAY in which Noah entered into the ark.
So Luke 17:26-28 is not about one day.
In conclusion for now, if you understand being "left" to be positive, then what does the mean? Believers are left on earth when the Lord returns, and not destroyed like Antichrist is?
We agree that the man of sin is revealed in the middle of the last week.
(I am not one of those, like Nancy, who says the Tribulation is 7 years. To me it is clearly not 7 years.)
The Great Tribulation is 3 1/2 years. It begins when the man of sin is revealed. In the middle of Daniel's last week.
Which coincides with the first rapture. That is, the first rapture at the end of this age. The firstfruits of Rev 14:1-5, the manchild of Rev 12:5. The vision in Revelation 7 of all those raptured to the heavens before the opening of the 7th seal.
No. But thanks for your thoughtful, "close," question.
The nation of Israel, which survives to the end, will be delivered physically and spiritually---being
justified and born again----at the end of the Tribulation, when about to be destroyed by Antichrist.
The sheep-nations will not be born of God. But will be "saved" and even "receive their Messiah" in the sense
that they take care of the left-behind Christians, and take care of Israel, and in so doing, actually take care of Christ.
As He says.
Whoever else who fears God and doesn't take the mark of the beast, per the angel's "eternal gospel" in Rev 14, will also "enter into eternal life" in the kingdom, as it's inhabitents (not as its kings). But Eternal Life will not enter into them
I guess we're kinda on the same page, roughly, there. In that I don't think there will be any (except the nation of Israel) who receive the Messiah in the way of rebirth, during the Tribulation. But I do consider that the Millenium, also, is a day-long wedding. Maybe we can compare verses on that, "marriage, wedding"
this parable is addressed to the disciples. It's not a lesson on "hell vs heaven."
Nonbelievers are not virgins nor slaves to the Lord.
It's easier to deny or discount something. On the affirmative or interpretive side, feel welcome to suggest why you think the Lord selected the word "virgins." When you have the time.
To the contrary:
It depends on the context. Any word, including the word "know," derives its precise meaning and sense from the immediate context in which it is used. That's the way.............language works.
Mt 7:23 is also spoken to disciples about disciples. It is not to nor about unbelievers. Unbelievers don't call Him "Lord." Whoever calls Him "Lord" knows and has Him to that extent. "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
The ones in Mt 7 cast out demons in His name, and prophesy in His name. But He never acknowledged what they did. He never told them to do that specifically. That is the sense of the word "knew" there. Likewise in Mt 25. Paul said that he wanted to know the Lord. You read it. I assume. In Philippians 3. That is the same word. "Know." Since Paul was saved, why did he need to know the Lord? The answer is: because knowing the Lord is more than just being saved from eternal hell. Being born of God, as a child of God..............is just the start. The permanent, irrevocable, start. But still just the start. That's what we have to do: gain the Holy Spirit. And multiply the weights, the "talents," the Christ whom we've received. That's..........what Christians are accountable to their Lord. And He is serious. Both as a Bridegroom and a Lord.
It is a no-brainer that unbelievers don't know the Lord, that unbelievers aren't with the Lord for eternity. Nor for 1000 years.
That is not the message or thought of Mt 7 and 25.........nor of most of the Bible. The Bible is written to believers...........by far mostly ABOUT believers.
As a side point, you've (properly, in this example) interjected the name "Jesus" into Mt 25. So then.........who are "virgins" to Jesus? Nonbelievers? Rejectors of Jesus? Those who don't believe into Christ are "already condemned," John 3. They don't need a parable warning that unless they get oil in their vessels (in addition to their lamps) then they are going to be lost.
Lol.
Jesus is the Bridegroom. His people collectively are His Bride. Individually, we all are to be pure for Him, as His lovers.
To the contrary:
"escape" is one of the actual words in Luke 21:36. It couldn't be clearer.
I prefer Jesus' words to yours, no matter how tougher (or not) they seem to be:
Be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man.
Likewise with Revelation 3:10.
Because you have kept.....I will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come....
In regards to your silly, non-reading of Luke 17 (no offence), 17:20-24 describes His coming.
Then 25 He digresses:
"But first He [the Son of Man] must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation."
Lol. Does that mean that the Son of Man's suffering happened AFTER His coming?
Please. The Bible is written normally and sanely. All you need to do is read it.
Then in 26 He returns to the topic of "the days of the Son of Man" in the future.
But DAYS of. Not the very moment of His return. But the days leading up to it. His coming, broadly, after all,
is as much as 3 1/2 years long. Depending on the context of the given verse.
"Even as it happened in the days of Noah, so wil l it be also in the days of the Son of Man."
They were eating, they were drinking....UNTIL the DAY in which Noah entered into the ark.
So Luke 17:26-28 is not about one day.
In conclusion for now, if you understand being "left" to be positive, then what does the mean? Believers are left on earth when the Lord returns, and not destroyed like Antichrist is?
We agree that the man of sin is revealed in the middle of the last week.
(I am not one of those, like Nancy, who says the Tribulation is 7 years. To me it is clearly not 7 years.)
The Great Tribulation is 3 1/2 years. It begins when the man of sin is revealed. In the middle of Daniel's last week.
Which coincides with the first rapture. That is, the first rapture at the end of this age. The firstfruits of Rev 14:1-5, the manchild of Rev 12:5. The vision in Revelation 7 of all those raptured to the heavens before the opening of the 7th seal.
No. But thanks for your thoughtful, "close," question.
The nation of Israel, which survives to the end, will be delivered physically and spiritually---being
justified and born again----at the end of the Tribulation, when about to be destroyed by Antichrist.
The sheep-nations will not be born of God. But will be "saved" and even "receive their Messiah" in the sense
that they take care of the left-behind Christians, and take care of Israel, and in so doing, actually take care of Christ.
As He says.
Whoever else who fears God and doesn't take the mark of the beast, per the angel's "eternal gospel" in Rev 14, will also "enter into eternal life" in the kingdom, as it's inhabitents (not as its kings). But Eternal Life will not enter into them
I guess we're kinda on the same page, roughly, there. In that I don't think there will be any (except the nation of Israel) who receive the Messiah in the way of rebirth, during the Tribulation. But I do consider that the Millenium, also, is a day-long wedding. Maybe we can compare verses on that, "marriage, wedding"