Joyce Meyer -- False Teacher

[Somtincreatib]

You also have a choice to not be manipulative in your speech
If you been here long enough, you'll find that the bold above is a common line of defence to try and coerce someone into believing/submitting to what they have to say. Just try and think about the person on the receiving end of such a comment, and what it could possibly make them feel/think...to the weak it would be something like, "Gee, I better listen because I don't want to disregard verse nor disbelieve them." Or something like that.
It's not very nice I don't think.

Unless the interpretation is shown to be faulty, those are the two options. I am open to being shown if it is a faulty interpretation. I opened the floor for people to do so, noone has. If i was on the recieving end of the comment i would either answer the question or show how the interpretation is faulty.

 

[Somtincreatib]

Your assessment of me is rather insultingly brash and without merit.

I am not above anyone. I am merely just another member of CC who speaks my opinion...just like yourself. Are you feeling threatened by it or something?

Insultingly brash i will accept, but it is with merit and im guessing you have heard that said of you before.

 

[breno785au]

Unless the interpretation is shown to be faulty, those are the two options. I am open to being shown if it is a faulty interpretation. I opened the floor for people to do so, noone has. If i was on the recieving end of the comment i would either answer the question or show how the interpretation is faulty.

I understand that, but everyone thinks their interpretation to be correct. That's why there are discussions/debates here.
I know with my own walk i'll openly admit that I believed things that weren't quite right and the Holy Spirit has shown me otherwise over time And I probably still don't have everything 100% correct (not saying that you think that of yourself)
But i've learned to accept that people have and will always have differing views to me, whether they are right or wrong, i've learned not to worry about it, even for myself because I trust that God will teach and correct over time, and also for the other person.
We only encounter one another in a tiny sliver of time, how you see everyone and even myself now, will be different in the years ahead if we are going ahead faith to faith.
Sorry I typed more than I expected

 

[Somtincreatib]

I understand that, but everyone thinks their interpretation to be correct. That's why there are discussions/debates here.
I know with my own walk i'll openly admit that I believed things that weren't quite right and the Holy Spirit has shown me otherwise over time And I probably still don't have everything 100% correct (not saying that you think that of yourself)
But i've learned to accept that people have and will always have differing views to me, whether they are right or wrong, i've learned not to worry about it, even for myself because I trust that God will teach and correct over time, and also for the other person.
We only encounter one another in a tiny sliver of time, how you see everyone and even myself now, will be different in the years ahead if we are going ahead faith to faith.
Sorry I typed more than I expected

Again. Show the interpretation to be faulty, or choose. Reality doesn't allow for postmodernist "everyone can be right" as there is only one truth. Their is evidence to believe the interpretation is true. Show it to be false or you have those two choices.

 

[breno785au]

Again. Show the interpretation to be faulty, or choose. Reality doesn't allow for postmodernist "everyone can be right" as there is only one truth. Their is evidence to believe the interpretation is true. Show it to be false or you have those two choices.

Never did I say "everyone can be right." So i'll take the two choices for now, thanks

 

[Somtincreatib]

Never did I say "everyone can be right." So i'll take the two choices for now, thanks

I know you didnt say those words, postmodernists do.

 

[MsLimpet]

I do not understand why "Christians" get so angry and want to argue. It is non productive...love one another

 

[PoetMary]

Read the sources i posted. Im not going to act like im the arbiter of what women can and cant do. And im not going to act like im God and know the answer to every loophole you look for. All i know is what the Bible says and i trust the Bible as the word of God so i wont go against it.

Some people cant look past their preconceived political viewpoints to accept what scripture says. Im not one of those, i accept what the scriptures say. If someone could show the scriptures dont say what they say i would take it to heart. Noone has.

Okay...let me clarify. I don't think you're the arbiter of what anyone can do, male or female. I was never under the impression that you were "acting like God." However, I find your refusal to address real issues in light of these verses to be interesting. My questions were genuine. I have no agenda.

It comes across as if you are saying, "Hey...I just quote this stuff....don't expect me to apply it to real life."

Let me give you an example: With the possible exception of some very insular and strict groups, even conservative Christendom accepts women as teachers *outside* of churches. While some may say, "well, you're talking about teaching children since they're under 18," lots of conservative Christian colleges employ female professors to teach on a variety of subjects. They view the ecclesiastical authority structure established by Pauline scriptures to address churches specifically and not other sorts of learning organizations or affiliations.

Additionally, the Pauline scripture didn't address the issue of female authors (or authors at all) largely because the vast majority of the church was illiterate. So now we arrive at 2015 a print-rich time. There is a lot of teaching related to the bible and Christian living that isn't given from any pulpit, but from the pages of a book.

It seems curious to me that when a woman stands on a stage she's called a "teacher," but if she writes a lot of books she escapes that title (and thereby escapes the judgement of many). And yet a lot of Christians clearly learn a lot from engaging with books. You'll hear them say, "Oh, you should read XYZ, it taught me so much about the love of God, OR I really understand Romans better now that I've read XYZ." Even this kind of language evidences learning.

So, while you insist that I was presenting a variety of loopholes, I wasn't. I was asking one question: According to the bible, what makes a person a teacher?

 

[mwc68]

Maybe this will shed a little light. Jim Baker is back on TV bilking the people again!!!!

 

[ladylynn]

Maybe this will shed a little light. Jim Baker is back on TV bilking the people again!!!!

Wellll mwc68.... Jim Baker being on tv again?..... could mean a few things... it could mean he messed up big time and sinned horribly and to the world it looked like he should never have been forgiven... But God being the forgiving gracious loving God He is - took a horrible mess of sins in a mans life and where sin showed up, Grace much more abounded and showed up even bigger....God might have, maybe....possibly... could have...forgiven him and he is back on tv ???? Just a thought. Stranger things have happened.

 

[mwc68]

Wellll mwc68.... Jim Baker being on tv again?..... could mean a few things... it could mean he messed up big time and sinned horribly and to the world it looked like he should never have been forgiven... But God being the forgiving gracious loving God He is - took a horrible mess of sins in a mans life and where sin showed up, Grace much more abounded and showed up even bigger....God might have, maybe....possibly... could have...forgiven him and he is back on tv ???? Just a thought. Stranger things have happened.

Or it could mean he missed the millions coming in. I'm going with that

 

[JaumeJ]

Or we could believe in all things beautiful, and all things possible. This repentence could be of the Lord. However if you are authorized to judge such, I will say no more. I do not like people who use the Word for "filthy lucre," but my dislike is not sufficient for me to pronounce judgment. To do this would be reigning without th presence of the King.

Or it could mean he missed the millions coming in. I'm going with that

 

[Somtincreatib]

I do not understand why "Christians" get so angry and want to argue. It is non productive...love one another

Lol i dont say anything out of hate. I can argue and still love someone. I can even tell Nancy what i did and love her as a sister, hoping she takes the words to heart and changes.

 

[Somtincreatib]

Okay...let me clarify. I don't think you're the arbiter of what anyone can do, male or female. I was never under the impression that you were "acting like God." However, I find your refusal to address real issues in light of these verses to be interesting. My questions were genuine. I have no agenda.

It comes across as if you are saying, "Hey...I just quote this stuff....don't expect me to apply it to real life."

Let me give you an example: With the possible exception of some very insular and strict groups, even conservative Christendom accepts women as teachers *outside* of churches. While some may say, "well, you're talking about teaching children since they're under 18," lots of conservative Christian colleges employ female professors to teach on a variety of subjects. They view the ecclesiastical authority structure established by Pauline scriptures to address churches specifically and not other sorts of learning organizations or affiliations.

Additionally, the Pauline scripture didn't address the issue of female authors (or authors at all) largely because the vast majority of the church was illiterate. So now we arrive at 2015 a print-rich time. There is a lot of teaching related to the bible and Christian living that isn't given from any pulpit, but from the pages of a book.

It seems curious to me that when a woman stands on a stage she's called a "teacher," but if she writes a lot of books she escapes that title (and thereby escapes the judgement of many). And yet a lot of Christians clearly learn a lot from engaging with books. You'll hear them say, "Oh, you should read XYZ, it taught me so much about the love of God, OR I really understand Romans better now that I've read XYZ." Even this kind of language evidences learning.

So, while you insist that I was presenting a variety of loopholes, I wasn't. I was asking one question: According to the bible, what makes a person a teacher?

I dont pretend to be the most intelligent man or the man with all the answers. I didnt insist you were "providing a variety of loopholes" just that there will be ones looked for. Writing a book is not acting as someones pastor, but i dont know any passages to exegete in regards to women writing books. Considering that book writing and reading is outside church it most likely doesnt matter. As for women being professors, that is a separate subject, not church related.
Women pastors / preachers? Can a woman be a pastor or preacher?
https://carm.org/should-women-be-pastors-and-elders

 

[Somtincreatib]

Wellll mwc68.... Jim Baker being on tv again?..... could mean a few things... it could mean he messed up big time and sinned horribly and to the world it looked like he should never have been forgiven... But God being the forgiving gracious loving God He is - took a horrible mess of sins in a mans life and where sin showed up, Grace much more abounded and showed up even bigger....God might have, maybe....possibly... could have...forgiven him and he is back on tv ???? Just a thought. Stranger things have happened.

He disqualified himself for pastorship according to God's word. He may repent (has he?) and be forgiven, but there are temporal downsides to sin, no longer being qualified to be a pastor is one.

Titus 1
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the [d]overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but by theirdeeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

1 timothy 3

3 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 [b]An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine [c]or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation [d]incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not [e]double-tongued, [f]or addicted to much wine [g]or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 [h]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and [i]good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a [j]high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

 

[prodigal]

I have high regard for the word. It is truth. I have studied these matters in depth, and God speaks to me through the scriptures and He isn't saying what you say. It's your choice whether you want to remain complacent in your fleshly reading and comprehension or whether you want to really know what God's heart is about this. I went for the latter.

still no scripture,, is google not so helpful with this 1,,, sounds a bit like meology to me

 

[JaumeJ]

And this is coming from the one who tells others they are lost without giving ear to all they have to say. Far out!

I do not understand why "Christians" get so angry and want to argue. It is non productive...love one another

 

[ladylynn]

He disqualified himself for pastorship according to God's word. He may repent (has he?) and be forgiven, but there are temporal downsides to sin, no longer being qualified to be a pastor is one.

Titus 1
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the [d]overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but by theirdeeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

1 timothy 3

3 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 [b]An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine [c]or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation [d]incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not [e]double-tongued, [f]or addicted to much wine [g]or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 [h]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and [i]good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a [j]high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

I'm not sure what Jim Bakers situation is., we were talking about why he could be back on tv again. If the man is a believer and repented the Bible says his sins are forgotten as far as the east is from the west. I don't think going back on TV is against the Bible. I don't see any verses that cover going back on TV or radio. But do believe from scripture that God forgives and restores believers as a testimony of His grace.

 

[PeterJens]

How can you tell when someone is a WOF?

There is a simple thing to look out for. Confession of given health or wealth, creating it into reality.
The ethic is you live in a world ruled by christians, you just have to confess it to take possession.

The downside of this idea is if you are ill, or have glasses, or something you regard as a failure, and confession will not make it change, you are at fault not the doctrine.

I listened to Joyce on sin. Now what was spoken about was contamination from bad company. But oddly the concept of repentance, admitting you are a sinner, asking for forgiveness, accepting forgiveness and choosing to stop sinning was not covered. Now the power of the christian walk is the cross, love overcoming sin, humbleness, seeing selfishness on the cross, small minded, irresponsible, foolish sin, conquered by overwhelming love and forgiveness, not even a mention.

Imagine if you believe by saying you are a sinner, you become one, accepting defeat is making it real. So no wonder talking true spiritual reality, is self condemnation, not honesty, from which you can rise victorious a child of God.

So listen to what they include and just do not mention, because the ethics have changed. The ethic is always be positive, because negative statements are deemed evil. But this creates a denial of reality, of seeing sin for what it is, and pushing it away. It is painting the church white, because that is positive though hypocracy, because unless you repent nothing has changed, let alone admitted to. So listen closely, because their rules are not our rules.

 

[ladylynn]

How can you tell when someone is a WOF?

There is a simple thing to look out for. Confession of given health or wealth, creating it into reality.
The ethic is you live in a world ruled by christians, you just have to confess it to take possession.

The downside of this idea is if you are ill, or have glasses, or something you regard as a failure, and confession will not make it change, you are at fault not the doctrine.

I listened to Joyce on sin. Now what was spoken about was contamination from bad company. But oddly the concept of repentance, admitting you are a sinner, asking for forgiveness, accepting forgiveness and choosing to stop sinning was not covered. Now the power of the christian walk is the cross, love overcoming sin, humbleness, seeing selfishness on the cross, small minded, irresponsible, foolish sin, conquered by overwhelming love and forgiveness, not even a mention.

Imagine if you believe by saying you are a sinner, you become one, accepting defeat is making it real. So no wonder talking true spiritual reality, is self condemnation, not honesty, from which you can rise victorious a child of God.

So listen to what they include and just do not mention, because the ethics have changed. The ethic is always be positive, because negative statements are deemed evil. But this creates a denial of reality, of seeing sin for what it is, and pushing it away. It is painting the church white, because that is positive though hypocracy, because unless you repent nothing has changed, let alone admitted to. So listen closely, because their rules are not our rules.

The problem with labels used on people is one label does not cover every thing a person IS or believes. But regardless, the practice of labeling people continues because it's easier to label than have a reasonable conversation. It would seem we as mature believers should be shunning the practice of labeling other believers. Shall we?

The reason I try to have thoughts and use words that are of a positive confession is because it is biblical. The Bible says in Phil. 4:8 Finally brethren, whatsoever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.

The Bible says there is merit in thinking and saying good things and not evil things. He will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee... This is certainly not creating our own reality, it is doing what God's Word says so our minds will be transformed by renewing it with His Word. And the promises are that He will do this. I believe the Bible.

The power of life and death is in the tongue. We are not supposed to be cursing and blessing in the same breath., let alone that those 2 things should come out of the same mouth.

Walking by faith and not by sight takes a certain discipline to not look at the things that are seen but the things that are not so clearly seen. Heb. 11:1 Faith is trusting that what we feel and see are not always true but that what God's Word says is always true even if we don't see or feel it right away. And as Christians we now have a responsibility to be about the business of walking by faith and not by sight.

My experience with Joyce Meyers preaching has been just that., do not believe what the devil says about you but find out what God says about you. You are in the Beloved and you are cherished not condemned. If there is wrong thinking, repent of it and change your mind of it and believe instead what God's Word says about your life and circumstances. Do you feel alone? you are not alone, He has promised to be with you and will never forsake you. We are to focus on those truths of His love for us and not the enemies lies and feelings.

Put weight on God's Word and not our circumstances or feelings. That has been the message I've heard Joyce preach.

Believe what God says about you not what the devil or others say about you. Claim the promises already paid for by Jesus for you. And make it your life's goal to know His Word and learn who He is and who we are in Him. An intimate relationship with Jesus is available for all of His children. And as we walk in this newness of life we will serve Him from a true heart.

The Bible says there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west... gone. paid for. Don't allow the enemy of your souls to put condemnation back on you when Jesus already got rid of it.

God is always positive, Jesus is our Good Shepherd who leads us, He does not herd us from behind like geese but leads us by going before us His sheep. He is always good and always righteous. We are supposed to be beholding Jesus and be reflecting Him in our lives. This can't be done by looking at the world and not Jesus. That is also what I've heard Joyce preach about.

Good is not evil and evil is not good. Repentance is changing our ways to His ways. And it does not always mean crying and sackcloth and ashes. It can be a simple renewal of our mind to believe Him instead of us.