Christian music

[LT]

If you want to know why the hard rock/metal genre is so popular among Believers aged 15-55, it's because of the fakeness of so much of the mainstream Christian music. Life isn't all sunshine and roses now that Jesus came into your life. There is still struggle, and there is still pain, and there are new forms of inner turmoil that an unbeliever cannot fathom! Am I to bottle up all my hurts and put on a happy face to fit in with my brothers and sisters who are secretly going through the same thing as me? No. Jesus is my hope, in this life and the next... but not a fluffy cloud that I sit upon in the sunshine. He is the Rock that shelters me in storm, and the destination I run for when the weather is clear.

 

[jh611]

LT, do you beleive I am wrong? He is arguing over and over about an opinion. Oh and he never addressed the Romans 8:28 scripture. Like you said.... Testimony is the key. If this type of music touches someone, or should I say the lyrics, is it then still "evil" as he puts it? I feel I have made several valid points throughout this thread. How can classical elevator Christian music bring a person to Christ if they don't listen to it due to a distaste in it? I just don't know. It is my job as a Christian to try and help, to educate, but how do you get through to someone so closed minded?

 

[jh611]

I carried a debt, a price on my head
I could not free myself from

And there was a burden, I could feel its heavy load
A judgement from above
I was slave to my shame, prisoner to the grave
Hoping for freedom

Then my story changed!
A weighty judgement was lifted on my behalf
And I was lost, yes, but I've been found
By an anchor that holds me fast

My redeemer, my reconciler
He has freed me from the past
And set me right, he called me by name
And lifted my curse at last!

Jesus, your name is lifted high
Jesus, your name is lifted high

And, oh, the joy of my burdens lifted
Of the prisoner set free
I went from stumbling through the darkness
To walking in light and now I can see

The hope that I have is sure and steadfast
Has bound my wandering heart to thee
So I'm singin', "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me"

And he took my place!
He paid a debt he did not owe
He came in the flesh, bore my sin and death
A fate that I will never know

And Jesus Christ, the ransom for all
He counted it joy to take the grave
And then God raised him from the dead
And in his name is the power to save!

Jesus, your name is lifted high
Jesus, your name is lifted high

This is the song of the redeemed
All praise and glory to our king
A thousand tongues therefore to sing
Extolling Jesus for eternity

This is the song of the redeemed
All praise, all glory to our king
A thousand tongues therefore to sing
Extolling Jesus for eternity

 

[LT]

LT, do you beleive I am wrong? He is arguing over and over about an opinion. Oh and he never addressed the Romans 8:28 scripture. Like you said.... Testimony is the key. If this type of music touches someone, or should I say the lyrics, is it then still "evil" as he puts it? I feel I have made several valid points throughout this thread. How can classical elevator Christian music bring a person to Christ if they don't listen to it due to a distaste in it? I just don't know. It is my job as a Christian to try and help, to educate, but how do you get through to someone so closed minded?

Jason is a one-of-a-kind. I'm not sure where he's at spiritually, but he does this same thing on basically every thread he goes to. Last time I remember talking to him, he was trying to tell me that Jesus can't truly relate to us, because He was too perfect to be truly tempted the way we are... I think Jason just likes saying things that people disagree with, and then tries to back it up with off-based quotes and twist-of-phrase.
I should really just put him on ignore, but I keep thinking that I can reach him... I suppose pride is the only reason I haven't muted him yet.

 

[Jason0047]

If you want to know why the hard rock/metal genre is so popular among Believers aged 15-55, it's because of the fakeness of so much of the mainstream Christian music. Life isn't all sunshine and roses now that Jesus came into your life. There is still struggle, and there is still pain, and there are new forms of inner turmoil that an unbeliever cannot fathom! Am I to bottle up all my hurts and put on a happy face to fit in with my brothers and sisters who are secretly going through the same thing as me? No. Jesus is my hope, in this life and the next... but not a fluffy cloud that I sit upon in the sunshine. He is the Rock that shelters me in storm, and the destination I run for when the weather is clear.

But the battle we fight is not one of mindless aggression or of an angry spirit. Such a spirit working behind such music (Christian Heavy Metal) is not of God. The LORD is slow to anger. But the spirit. Behind Heavy Metal is primarily angry most of the time.

 

[LT]

I carried a debt, a price on my head
I could not free myself from

And there was a burden, I could feel its heavy load
A judgement from above
I was slave to my shame, prisoner to the grave
Hoping for freedom

Then my story changed!
A weighty judgement was lifted on my behalf
And I was lost, yes, but I've been found
By an anchor that holds me fast

My redeemer, my reconciler
He has freed me from the past
And set me right, he called me by name
And lifted my curse at last!

Jesus, your name is lifted high
Jesus, your name is lifted high

And, oh, the joy of my burdens lifted
Of the prisoner set free
I went from stumbling through the darkness
To walking in light and now I can see

The hope that I have is sure and steadfast
Has bound my wandering heart to thee
So I'm singin', "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me"

And he took my place!
He paid a debt he did not owe
He came in the flesh, bore my sin and death
A fate that I will never know

And Jesus Christ, the ransom for all
He counted it joy to take the grave
And then God raised him from the dead
And in his name is the power to save!

Jesus, your name is lifted high
Jesus, your name is lifted high

This is the song of the redeemed
All praise and glory to our king
A thousand tongues therefore to sing
Extolling Jesus for eternity

This is the song of the redeemed
All praise, all glory to our king
A thousand tongues therefore to sing
Extolling Jesus for eternity

Yes and AMEN!

 

[jh611]

Is that sound evil or aggressive?

 

[LT]

But the battle we fight is not one of mindless aggression or of an angry spirit. Such a spirit working behind such music (Christian Heavy Metal) is not of God. The LORD is slow to anger. But the spirit. Behind Heavy Metal is primarily most of the time.

Does mindless aggression speak such words of Truth as spoken in post #303? I think not.
God does what He pleases, in whichever way He pleases, with whatever He pleases.
He is a free God, not a boxed one. He is Almighty, full of Glory, and Soveriegn over all Creation.

 

[Jason0047]

Is that sound evil or aggressive?

A person would have to be spiritually blind not to see that it is both. Here are some groups that just sound both evil and aggressive.

[VIDEO=youtube;fVnUQqdqyjo]https://youtu.be/fVnUQqdqyjo[/VIDEO]

BTW ~ I felt dirty after listening to just a few seconds of this music. It just wrong. It sounds like a demon screaming and a bunch of noise going off. If you call that music, .... then you really do not know what real music is.

 

[Jason0047]

Does mindless aggression speak such words of Truth as spoken in post #303? I think not.
God does what He pleases, in whichever way He pleases, with whatever He pleases.
He is a free God, not a boxed one. He is Almighty, full of Glory, and Soveriegn over all Creation.

Catholics appear to worship the same Jesus we do. But we both know that is not the case because they pray to the dead and bow down to idols. So it does not matter if the lyrics are nice if the beat is one that sounds satanic and aggressive. Again, Ecclesiastes 7:9, James 1:19, Proverbs 14:29 all say that we are to be slow to anger (Just as God is slow to anger (Psalm 103:8)).

 

[LT]

On a separate note: for every emotion that I experienced in secular music, I have found a better and more satisfying (archetype) emotion in the religious.
The secular is merely a twist of what is true.

In our ignorance, we think it is "higher quality", but in fact, it is distortion... like taking a wav file recording of the original, and converting it to 8bit mp3. We only consider it "good" because we get used to it.

I cannot wait to hear the Song of the 144k Redeemed. A song no one else can learn. How amazing will this song be?!?
Will I be able to learn it? How I hope to be in that number. (Dispensationalists tell me it is not possible)

 

[LT]

A person would have to be spiritually blind not to see that it is both. Here are some groups that just sound both evil and aggressive.

[VIDEO=youtube;fVnUQqdqyjo]https://youtu.be/fVnUQqdqyjo[/VIDEO]

BTW ~ I felt dirty after listening to just a few seconds of this music. It just wrong. It sounds like a demon screaming and a bunch of noise going off. If you call that music, .... then you really do not know what real music is.

That's because "a few seconds in" was As I Lay Dying... which was never consider a Christian band by anyone who listened to lyrics... I think we discussed them before...

As for the list given, I have only heard of 3 of them. The rest were really random. Couldn't even find half of those bands on Wikipedia. At least three were outright antichristian bands, as clearly stated on their MySpace and Facebook pages. A Thousand Times Repent was never ever ever consider a Christian band... ever. That's like saying A Perfect Circle is a Christian band. Just ridiculous.

Also, this genre you are posting is not representative of the "metal" genre. It is only one subgenre, called "thrash". Note the lack of guitar arpeggio. Note the constant double-bass. Note the use of pure scale, without modal influence. Note the use of "third voice" as the main vocal line (guttural vocal distortion). These things are not staples of "metal" as a whole.

If your issue is with "third voice" as the main vocal line, then I share your dislike... but even then, not to your extent.

 

[posthuman]

But the battle we fight is not one of mindless aggression or of an angry spirit. Such a spirit working behind such music (Christian Heavy Metal) is not of God. The LORD is slow to anger. But the spirit. Behind Heavy Metal is primarily angry most of the time.

"exuberance" and "aggression" are different things.

did you look at the studies i linked?
they found no causal link between hostility and this genre - and they were looking at purely secular songs.
you said "they are bias" but they were set up precisely to avoid bias - by considering test subjects who did not have a predisposition against the genre, so they weren't measuring prejudice.

the first study didn't even look at full composition but just examples of chord structures common to various types. that study found that prior familiarity and ear-training was strongly associated with subjective response, showing that prejudice formed a very strong bias that ought to be considered in experimental design.

what you linked were hearsay opinions by people who were already predisposed against these types of composition and arrangement - so there was a very strong confirmation bias at play to describe them negatively and to describe hostile reactions. in those diatribes - not studies - there was no "control" factor, and nothing done to remove the confounding variable of prejudice.
the only "study" you mentioned was the urban legend about mice killing each other after being subjected to the secular band Anthrax for 10 hours. this was supposedly reported by a 16 year old without any documentation. it's a favorite citation of crusaders against this kind of music, but i have never seen any proof that it ever happened, and i've seen it posted with reference to metal, rap, country, rock and even dubstep music. i'm doubtful whether it is a true story at all, but even if it is - it's about rats, not people, and i can find you lots of literature on pubmed about how poor rats are as subjects to draw comparisons with humans by. the condition of being in a cage and subjected to experiment more than likely causes a psychosis in them to begin with - they show lots of psychotic and neurotic behavior in general compared to wild animals - and they do not understand what they are being subjected to. humans can read the lyrics to songs.

lyrics are important. humans comprehend meaning.
lyrics are what differentiate everything in your hymnbook from a showtune or commercial jingle.
without the lyrics, there isn't a fundamental difference - that "separation" you're suggesting is so important" between the old rugged cross and a lot of pop radio songs that are glorifying sin. it's not the piano, the pipe organ, the style -- it's the meaningful content that separates our music from worldly music.
can you see that, or do i need to post links to secular music that "sounds" like traditional church songs?

put a song you consider to be actually "Christian" Jason -- i bet we can find purely worldly music that's entirely similar, if we completely ignore the lyrics. because completely ignoring the lyrics is central to your argument.

 

[breno785au]

[video=youtube;tHP9GXcb8BA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP9GXcb8BA[/video]

 

[Jason0047]

Here is the thing. When I hear a Christian metal band that sounds like it is a Rock 80's band, they are trying to copy those groups and it's sound. They are trying to mimic the world. This is a problem because those groups do drugs, sleep around with lots of women, and they create songs that are blatantly aggressive. Their style of music is no different than the world. When you stand before Jesus and explain to him why you chose your aggresive and worldly sounding music, I doubt your explanations will stand up to the Word of God. Everyone knows that they are being aggressive in their music and they have an appearance of evil in the way they dress, in their album art, and promotional photos. Paul says to avoid in having an appearance of evil. We are the new man and all things have become new (And not old). Just because they are singing words about Jesus does not mean they are truly honoring Him with their style of music. Music is not neutral. It is a beat that can cause emotion. Songs can cause emotion. That is part of what they do. When I flip thru the radio channels, I can immediately point out the Christian radio station by the type of tone or style that they are playing (Even if it is a Christian song I never heard before). There is a certain style to it. Granted, not all Christian music is like that, but a lot of it is uplifting and joyful and makes you want to praise God instead of banging your head as if you were at some kind of rock concert back in the day of your old life.

 

[Jason0047]

[video=youtube;tHP9GXcb8BA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP9GXcb8BA[/video]

Is this an example of Godly music? Sorry, I just don't see it. It sounds like noise and not music and it is angry in sound.

 

[Jason0047]

The key difference is that it sound carnal and not Heavenly. For today, Christians believe in Once Saved Always Saved. This is popular because it allows for believers to abide in unrepentant sin (Like lying, lusting, and hating), then die and still be saved. Meaning, it is a license to sin. Paul said be not deceived. The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Carnal Christianity is very popular these days. It's all about wanting to please yourself in addition to also serving God, too. But it does not work like that. Jesus says he that shall lose his life shall save it. Jesus does not want a part of our life, but he wants all of our life. He wants us to pick up our cross and follow Him. Once we put or hand to the plow, we cannot look back to the world. It doesn't work like that.

 

[breno785au]

Is this an example of Godly music? Sorry, I just don't see it. It sounds like noise and not music and it is angry in sound.

Yes it is. Not the bands fault you are not able to distinguish sounds. Understand it takes as much talent, skill, perseverance. practice and dedication to be able to play the way they do. These guys, whether your opinion thinks so or not are spreading the glory of God through their God given passions and I suppose them 100%

 

[Jason0047]

Yes it is. Not the bands fault you are not able to distinguish sounds. Understand it takes as much talent, skill, perseverance. practice and dedication to be able to play the way they do. These guys, whether your opinion thinks so or not are spreading the glory of God through their God given passions and I suppose them 100%

You cannot see it, because you do not want to see it. Once a person has dedicated their life to Christ and has forsaken all things for the Lord, then you will be able to see what I am talking about. But if you are still holding onto wanting to love the world, then you will never be able to see that the style of music you are listening to is not God honoring. Folks are blinded because they are not walking the straight and narrow but they are walking the wide gate path that is popular.

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, I guarantee you that if you were to give up such music for a year, and just listen to praise and worship instead, and if you followed after Christ's righteousness and commands in the New Testament, and you confessed any known sin, I know for a fact that if you were to hear this music again,, it would sound evil to you.