Forbidden to look at Big 10?

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So is grace and mercy 2 separate things in your opinion? Are they not both the attributes in the name of God? And Yes, it was God's mercy and grace that enlightened us to our carnal position by giving us the law.

"Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:" Genesis 19:19 Lot was addressing the angels sent by God to rescue his family. Mercy is magnified by the grace of God, same as God's mercy is magnified by the grace of Christ. They are ONE!
Define grace and mercy, then I'll answer you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Grateful I am so happy you posted that example, that's the point I was getting at. The Jews thought the same way as you do not to throw you under the bus but to explain the fullness of the law. That's what Jesus did in Matt chapter 5. God never intended it to be just for the carnal but also spiritual. Their are many forms of adultery in the old testament not just unfaithfulness to your wife. You can commit adultery against God by choosing someone else or something else that you love better. If we are the bride of Christ we are then married to him. If I choose (let's say) not to witness to people because its embarrassing to my friends or family (and we know that it is our great commission) I've just committed adultery for I love my friends and family more than God. If I hate a certain person because he just rubs me the wrong way his looks or the way he treats others but he has not offended me in any way (just one of those people) I am guilty of murder. The Pharisees and scribes of the temple taught only the carnal law and therefore adorned themself with self righteousness by placing ribbons and tassels and such on there robes like trophies saying look at me I keep the law, but Jesus leveled the playing field in Matt 5 when he told them and the people the true intent of the law. Showing that no one was capable of keeping it, save one Jesus. So we rest in his finished work, he is the perfect sacrifice, our atonement, our Passover, our Sabbath if you will.

thanks, you added, and proved even further that focsing on OT law and commands can not make us, or teach us how to obey the law.

We do all the things I mentioned and you just mentioned by the law of love, seeking the things of the spirit. not focusing on some law. like these lawyers here want us all to do.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Define grace and mercy, then I'll answer you.
If you don't know who will take seriously what you say about the two? I don't answer questions that have no honest sincerity behind them.

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." 2 Timothy 2:23
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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If you don't know who will take seriously what you say about the two? I don't answer questions that have no honest sincerity behind them.

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." 2 Timothy 2:23
Well, people have different ideas of what grace and mercy are, so depending on your view I could have attempted answering the question.
Your original question to me concerning the 2 contained your own answer, now how honest was that?
 
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bondservant

Guest
I'll give it a shot...hmmmm grace is what God provides. Mercy is what God gives it all comes from God then again we are asked to give mercy......
 
B

bondservant

Guest
Better yet God's. Riches. At christ. Expense = Grace
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Well, people have different ideas of what grace and mercy are, so depending on your view I could have attempted answering the question.
Your original question to me concerning the 2 contained your own answer, now how honest was that?
very good.
 
B

bondservant

Guest
Now that we got that sorta settled what about the pirates code of pirates of the Caribbean...o never mind.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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I have read the entire book....too many times to count and your point is moot.....Jesus was clear....the prophets desired to see what the disciples were seeing and did not see those things and the following are true....

1. The LAW came by MOSES
2. Grace and truth came BY JESUS
3. Jesus has always been and the FATHER was reconciling the world unto himself before it was cast down..

BUT...that does not change the fact that the revealed grace of GOD in Christ was not REVEALED fully UNTIL THE N.T......and in the PARTICULAR name of JESUS........
Excellent!

I would add to that last sentence, " . . . in the PARTICULAR name, Work, and High Priesthood of JESUS . . . "

-JGIG
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I have read the entire book....too many times to count and your point is moot.....Jesus was clear....the prophets desired to see what the disciples were seeing and did not see those things and the following are true....

1. The LAW came by MOSES
2. Grace and truth came BY JESUS
3. Jesus has always been and the FATHER was reconciling the world unto himself before it was cast down..

BUT...that does not change the fact that the revealed grace of GOD in Christ was not REVEALED fully UNTIL THE N.T......and in the PARTICULAR name of JESUS........
Since you like to add little bits, I will too.
1. The Law was actually GIVEN to Moses. (He was a messenger)
2. Grace-&-Truth (kind of a combined package) CAME as Jesus.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Friend, how can we believe that the law came without mercy if we see the account of Rahab the prostitute or the many times God forgave Israel for their transgressions? Surely if we read the OT we can see God's grace even while they were keeping the law?
Rahab was a Gentile and not subject to Israel's Law.

God spared Israel time and again for HIS Glory and HIS Plan - that of bringing about the Messiah to bring about a better covenant built on better promises \o/.

And He even used a Law-less prostitute to help make it happen.

-JGIG
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If you had made this point before I did I would not have said anything to you, you didn't make you position clear.
If we all had another dollar for the times we have made points and in our minds knew what we were thinking, but did not transpose it to the pc or paper better we would all have an extra few hundred grand in the bank... ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Since you like to add little bits, I will too.
1. The Law was actually GIVEN to Moses. (He was a messenger)
2. Grace-&-Truth (kind of a combined package) CAME as Jesus.
I agree and will take it one step further.....

The law came DIA Moses
Grace and Truth came DIA Jesus

;)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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If we all had another dollar for the times we have made points and in our minds knew what we were thinking, but did not transpose it to the pc or paper better we would all have an extra few hundred grand in the bank... ;)
How many times I have wished for more edit time than this ridiculously inadequate 5 minutes we're allotted. It seems no matter how many times I check something before I post it, I invariably find something I would have changed when it is up on the forum. And by that time, it is usually too late to correct it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How many times I have wished for more edit time than this ridiculously inadequate 5 minutes we're allotted. It seems no matter how many times I check something before I post it, I invariably find something I would have changed when it is up on the forum. And by that time, it is usually too late to correct it.
Yeah I agree........I never was an English grammerian and my spelling sucks....and even after I have proof read something I find a letter left out or a misspelled word...or something like...Oh man I should have made that point or this point.....
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Yeah I agree........I never was an English grammerian and my spelling sucks....and even after I have proof read something I find a letter left out or a misspelled word...or something like...Oh man I should have made that point or this point.....
Yeah. I couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag...... and that doesn't count just plain typos.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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I love how my Bible is shrinking with each passing day. One day soon, the way things are going, I will be able to read my entire Bible in just a matter of hours.

:)

Let's see. Hmm, well, all the Books of the Old Testament dealing with the peoples of the earth before the Law was given can be kept, for they would have a Historical value worthy of reading, but no actual value/importance to the Church today as the New Covenant Grace was not in place. All of the Books of the OT which record Gods interactions with the Nation of Israel AFTER the Law was given can be ripped out and discarded, for they do not have any bearing on the New Covenant Church. I suppose we could "edit" some of them that include prophecies of the coming Savior, for these prophecies would have Historical value as well.

We can rip out and discard the Four Gospels, because (as some here teach) they are recordings of Jesus speaking to the Nation of Israel, and the New Covenant was not yet established for He had not yet been resurrected. Thus those teachings are not for the New Covenant Church. Although, I have to wonder why so many of the Church today adhere to many of the teachings found in the Four Gospels? Such as baptism, Communion and such, I mean, after all.......... :) Also have to wonder why the Apostles continued to teach from the Gospel of Christ recorded in the Four Gospels.........if His Gospel was not for the New Covenant Church? Anyway, we can rip them out and discard them.

I'm thinking we are down to the Book of Acts, but it is simply a Historical Record of the establishment of the New Covenant Church, however ------ we should probably keep it in. The Epistles of Paul appear to be in question though. Some believe him to be a "false Apostle." Others believe his writings were not for ALL the Church, and some of his writings probably were not for ALL the Church today. I suppose we could appoint a Council of Elders to "EDIT" his Epistles to reveal ONLY the teachings that are relevant to the New Covenant Church today. Would probably have to do the same with the Epistles of John, Peter and James just to be safe.

I'm thinking we can keep Hebrews, as it appears to be "generic" in it's address, and probably the Epistle of Jude. Then, of course, there is Revelation. Guess we should keep it as well.

Once we are through, my goodness, how much smaller will my Bible be!
I believe the Old Testament has tremendous value and purpose for believers even though many of the ceremonial laws and judicial laws that were given to Israel are not binding for the New Testament church saint today. Every word in the OT is there by deliberate design by the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. For the OT Scriptures speaks of Jesus. So there are many shadows and types in the laws that are instructive and powerful but are no longer binding upon a believer today. Now, that said, God's moral laws in the OT are still of course binding for the NT saint today. Men were always born again spiritually and men were always justified by faith with God doing the good work in them. The Law was merely an outer reflection of showing someone's faith as being true and that they knew God. Keeping the Law in and of itself without having a personal relationship with the Lord will never save a person. A person first has to repent of their sins and accept the Lord into their heart. This is something that has not changed thru time, as well.

A regular person could not touch the Ark or they would die. This was saying that it was holy. The Law inside the Ark is saying that Grace covers and encases the Law (And it does not eliminate the Law). The Law is a school master to bring us to Christ. However, one does not throw away all their teachings from a school master when they come to Christ, though. So the Law was not revealed so as to show how we cannot keep the Law. Ezekiel 36:26-27 says that God was already helping his people to keep His laws and statutes. The law was written in their hearts (just as it is written in our hearts). Granted, the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). We do not follow the Law of Moses, but we follow the Law of Christ (Galatians 6;2), the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Royal Law (James 2:8), and the Law of Faith (Romans 3:27) in the New Testament. For Paul said that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37); And Paul also said that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

However, we cannot obey both the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Laws) and yet also obey the Law of Christ (i.e. the 1, 050 + Commands in the New Testament) at the same time. It's just not possible. For both sets of Laws in certain places conflict with one another. For example: New Covenant believers are not commanded to offer animal sacrifices to a priest within a temple anymore. We are also not to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek. We can also now eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law). God blessed Solomon with great wealth but in the New Testament, Jesus says it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. So the Law has indeed changed (Hebrews 7:12).
 
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