You are still too busy casting stones to see clearly. First, I was not referencing all types of sins (i.e. Especially those sins that are very serious like the ones you mentioned).
So now you are making a distinction between child molestation/murder and getting drunk. In your mind a genuine Christian can occasionally "stumble" and get drunk but they cannot occasionally "stumble" and rape and murder?
On what basis do you make such a distinction? You give drunkenness a pass but not rape or murder? Why not?
For obviously my statement would not apply to one committing suicide (For one would not know if they would come back to the dead or not so as to repent of such a sin).
I wasn't speaking about suicide which I knew you would have an objection to. Suicide would leave on on the "sin side" of the sin/repent/sin/repent cycle you allude to.
You have a drunkard who "confesses he is a sinner" and then "accepts Jesus as his saviour" getting this "substitutional provision" you believe in getting applied. Then if this believer then "stumbles" (as you like to call it) and gets drunk he will not lose the "application of the provision" if he repents.
So why doesn't the same standard apply to a serial murderer or a child molester? Is it because you think those sins are worse?
Where do you draw the line? Lying, cheating and stealing is ok? How about fornication? What about homosexuality?
You are a sin defender. You pick and choose which sins to give a pass to and which sins not to give a pass to.
Second, I said that the alcoholic was on his road to recovery in BEING SOBER. Meaning, he was on his way to putting his addiction out of his life. A stumble into sin does not mean that the person is habitually sinning and or that he is going to not receive God's grace so as to help him to stop sinning in that sin that is a challenge for him.
So the you can sin so long as it is not habitual? Is that what you are saying?
When does the sin stop then? Next week? Next year?
Is there any sin that has to stop BEFORE God will grant mercy? Can you answer that question?
Look at what you are saying. You are clearly affirming the position that a drunkard can get drunk and be saved, so long as they repent (whatever you think that means) each time.
Like I said, you are a sin defender like all the others here.
Why don't you say...
Second, I said that the child molester was on his road to recovery in NOT RAPING BABIES. Meaning, he was on his way to putting his addiction out of his life. A stumble into sin does not mean that the person is habitually sinning and or that he is going to not receive God's grace so as to help him to stop sinning in that sin that is a challenge for him.
You ought to be logically consistent. If you start to use logic you will very quickly see the foolishness of your position.
But Jesus said all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven besides speaking bad against the Spirit. We also know that a believer can be forgiven of really horrible sins by just looking at the life of David.
David repented, he did not "stumble" back into his rebellion against God. David was under condemnation when he was in his sin. The sin of David had to stop.
The Bible says...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Do you believe that?
However, I believe there are greater sins that are a lot more serious that the Lord will help a believer with when they first accept Him.
Accept Him?
Where does the Bible teach that? Is "accept Jesus" what they preached in Acts?
In Acts did they preach, "confess you are a sinner" and "accept Jesus" ????
NO!
Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should
repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
In other words the deeds of one who has truly repented is a reflection that they truly repented. A drunkard who repents does not continue to go and get drunk, the drunkard confessed and FORSOOK drunkenness.
I believe the cases where someone who is a child molester or a murderer is not saved if they keep doing those types of sin over and over.
Over and over? So they can do it on occasion? Or they can be saved and do it one more time?
You are defending sin. You are a sin defender.
Salvation is SAVED FROM SIN, not saved in it. No child of God is our molesting children, murdering people or getting drunk. Such conduct reveals that one is still a servant of sin. Why cannot you perceive that?
Original Sin and Penal Substitution has clearly neutralised your mind from an understanding of what the scripture so plainly teaches.
God changes the heart of a man to not want to do those very serious and evil things anymore.
REPENTANCE CHANGES THE HEART.
Repentance wrought through a godly sorrow effected by the Spirit of God working conviction, righteousness and judgement.
There is no magic "wait on God to change my desires." The desires change in repentance or they never will.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that
ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Your "confess you are a sinner" and "accept Jesus as your saviour" is a REPLACEMENT for "godly sorrow works a repentance unto salvation."
Instead of preaching repentance you preach "confess, trust and receive" and then tack on a sin/repent/sin/repent cycle in an attempt to reconcile the obedience passages found in the Bible.
You need to reject "confess, trust and receive" and instead adhere to HEAR AND DO wrought via a GODLY SORROW THAT WORKS REPENTANCE whereby we yield to and abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.
James said...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
We don't "accept Jesus" after "confessing we are sinner."
NO!
We lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness and receive with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save our souls. We HEAR AND DO.
Can you see the difference between your rhetoric and what the Bible plainly teaches?
He can take away those desires./quote]
Our desires are to be crucified in repentance.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Whereby we stop being drawn away into sin via the lusts of the flesh...
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
A drunkard doesn't "stumble" into getting drunk. A drunkard YIELDS TO TEMPTATION and sins against God. A drunkard has not crucified their old man.
This is how it works...
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our
old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Why not teach that Jason?
I am not saying that other sins unto spiritual death are not cause for concern for believers in regards to their salvation. What I am saying is not all sin is the same. Jesus said, there is a GREATER sin. 1 John 5:16-18 says there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death. There is unintentional sin. Hidden and secret faults (Psalm 19:12). There is unforgivable sins.
You brought up drunkenness Jason.
You stated that a drunk could get drunk and remain "saved" so long as they repented. Thus you believe that one can sin and not surely die, so long as they repent each time. That is what you taught and that is what you believe.
I am not speaking of sins of ignorance Jason. I am not speaking of hidden and secret faults. Even in regards to Psalm 19:12 a distinction is made between "hidden secrets and faults" and "presumptuous sin" (Psalm 19:13). Yet you appear to have ignored that distinction.
You know very well I am talking about willful sin here Jason and not sins of ignorance. Drunkness is not a sin of ignorance, it involves the free exercise of the will in accordance with knowledge. One does not accidentally stumble over and get drunk, one CHOOSES to drink to excess and get drunk.
Besides, do you think the Tax Collector was not forgiven in Luke 18:9-14? How was the thief on the cross forgiven?
They both repented. The issue here is not whether mercy is available for it clearly is. The issue is whether you can sin and not surely die. You have clearly stated that an individual can go and get drunk and remain forgiven so long as they repent afterwards.