Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)
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E
Start with verse 13. You should know better than taking a few verses out of context.
James is talking about healing in this passage, not spiritual death.
Of course of we talke a person from many sins, we may save their phsyical life.
Where do you get James is saying we can resave their eternal soul talk about out of context.
James is talking about healing in this passage, not spiritual death.
Of course of we talke a person from many sins, we may save their phsyical life.
Where do you get James is saying we can resave their eternal soul talk about out of context.
E
Um no. A child of God can not do this as John clearly says.
Falling back into a particual sin does not mean you have return to your old lifestyle. Which every aspect of your life was sin
Again, your giving yourself to much credit, and condemning people. when if what they did was worthy of condemnation. so does what yuo do ( even though your sin may not be so open or recognizable)
Again, You must understand we are all worthy of eternal death, every day of every minute, if we do not realise this, we will be powerless in Gods army.
Falling back into a particual sin does not mean you have return to your old lifestyle. Which every aspect of your life was sin
Again, your giving yourself to much credit, and condemning people. when if what they did was worthy of condemnation. so does what yuo do ( even though your sin may not be so open or recognizable)
Again, You must understand we are all worthy of eternal death, every day of every minute, if we do not realise this, we will be powerless in Gods army.
K
Apostle John does not say a child of God can not fall away, as once again he was referring to habitual sin that we will not do when operating in the born again nature.
He still says that we do not sin but did not rule out that we will again, which is why he mentioned to confess and continue to walk in the Light.
For even John speaks on struggling with sins that believers will face until they by the Holy Spirit learn how to abstain from them.
We were only deserving of eternal death before we came to the Lord, now being in the faith we are no longer under that condemnation. The only way one is still under that condemnation is if they put themselves under the law by continuing to deliberately keep sinning.
K
What does starting at verse 13 do as it does not change the context of verses 19 and 20.
Verses 13-15 is about healing the sick, and 16-18 is for confession for personal healing.
James 5:19-20 however is talking about the truth of gospel message, wandering away from what the Lord taught and commanded. As it clearly says one who wanders from the truth and one turns him back, not brings him back to the truth for the first time.
Also you may want to take a look back at verse 12 where James says let your yes be yes and your no be no unless you fall into condemnation !!!
Verses 13-15 is about healing the sick, and 16-18 is for confession for personal healing.
James 5:19-20 however is talking about the truth of gospel message, wandering away from what the Lord taught and commanded. As it clearly says one who wanders from the truth and one turns him back, not brings him back to the truth for the first time.
Also you may want to take a look back at verse 12 where James says let your yes be yes and your no be no unless you fall into condemnation !!!
E
Says who? Who is trying to read into what John said. John said plain and simple.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8[/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Your going to tell me this means anything other that what John said? I am sorry ken, but when someone tells me I need to read into something something that is not there, I am going to seriously question that persons intentions.
Thank you , you just made my point, We will still sin, Thus we have a problem. Either sin does not separate us again from God. or it does. at which case, how much sin is to much sin (what is the cut off point)
You keep trying to walk away from that point, but it keeps coming back to slap ya over and over..
So we are not under law. but under law. This makes no sense.
You just made my point, you do not think your worthy of condemnation as long as you work real hard not to fall into sin. Your hope is in your ability and your power to keep yourself pure, and not in the work and promise of Christ.
I am worthy of condemnation, every minute I walk on this earth I am worthy of condemnation. The only reason I will not be condemned is the grace and mercy of My god based on the loving sacrifice of his son Jesus.
Until you realise this, The is no way you will even comprehend what those like me believe, it will be forign and foolish to you.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8[/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Your going to tell me this means anything other that what John said? I am sorry ken, but when someone tells me I need to read into something something that is not there, I am going to seriously question that persons intentions.
Thank you , you just made my point, We will still sin, Thus we have a problem. Either sin does not separate us again from God. or it does. at which case, how much sin is to much sin (what is the cut off point)
You keep trying to walk away from that point, but it keeps coming back to slap ya over and over..
So we are not under law. but under law. This makes no sense.
You just made my point, you do not think your worthy of condemnation as long as you work real hard not to fall into sin. Your hope is in your ability and your power to keep yourself pure, and not in the work and promise of Christ.
I am worthy of condemnation, every minute I walk on this earth I am worthy of condemnation. The only reason I will not be condemned is the grace and mercy of My god based on the loving sacrifice of his son Jesus.
Until you realise this, The is no way you will even comprehend what those like me believe, it will be forign and foolish to you.
E
Now who is twisting.
13 - 20 is about healing, James did not go from speaking of personal healing, and confessing of sin to get that healing to the gospel message.
Context is in whole not in part. we do not twist context in the middle of a paragraph to suit our own belief system.
you do realise you are teaching perfectionalism do you not?? every thing you say would require one to be perfect. if they have any hope of salvation.
I know you do not see this, but to the laymen who is listening to you and all the things you say and passages you post. You are teaching perfectionalsim.
13 - 20 is about healing, James did not go from speaking of personal healing, and confessing of sin to get that healing to the gospel message.
Context is in whole not in part. we do not twist context in the middle of a paragraph to suit our own belief system.
you do realise you are teaching perfectionalism do you not?? every thing you say would require one to be perfect. if they have any hope of salvation.
I know you do not see this, but to the laymen who is listening to you and all the things you say and passages you post. You are teaching perfectionalsim.
F
"The man who has struggled to purify himself and has had nothing but repeated failures will experience real relief when he stops tinkering with his soul and looks away to the perfect One. While he looks at Christ, the very things he has so long been trying to do will be getting done within him. It will be God working in him to will and to do." - A.W. Tozer
K
I am not twisting nothing as John is covering different areas there in 1 John 5, not just healing.
Again like I said look at verse 12 where John said let your yes be yes and no be no unless you fall to condemnation, as you did not even address that. John clearly said falling back to condemnation can happen as Hebrews says some will fall back to perdition, and Paul says you will only be presented spotless and without blame if you continue in the faith and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
It is not twisting as those last two says wanders from the truth and someone turns them back will save a soul from death.
This would make no sense if this is still talking about healing, as just because a person is sick does not mean they are not in the truth. And being healed from an infirmity saves the body not the soul !!!
Again like I said look at verse 12 where John said let your yes be yes and no be no unless you fall to condemnation, as you did not even address that. John clearly said falling back to condemnation can happen as Hebrews says some will fall back to perdition, and Paul says you will only be presented spotless and without blame if you continue in the faith and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
It is not twisting as those last two says wanders from the truth and someone turns them back will save a soul from death.
This would make no sense if this is still talking about healing, as just because a person is sick does not mean they are not in the truth. And being healed from an infirmity saves the body not the soul !!!
K
A great quote but that statement by Tozer does not take away from the fact that God by His Holy Spirit working in and through us will show out in our actions, speech, and treatment of others.
There is nowhere in the bible that says we do nothing in the faith because Jesus does it all, as what it really says is by ourselves we can do nothing but with God all things are possible.
In and of ourselves alone we can do nothing and anything we do is like filthy rags, but after being born again we are not alone for we have the Holy Spirit of God abiding in us to guide and chastise us when we do wrong. For it is by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that tells us how to walk in the faith, and if you are not following those standards then the bible clearly says that is a true sign one is not born again or has fallen away from the truth.
For the fruit of the Holy Spirit will be very evident in all true born again believers !!!
There is nowhere in the bible that says we do nothing in the faith because Jesus does it all, as what it really says is by ourselves we can do nothing but with God all things are possible.
In and of ourselves alone we can do nothing and anything we do is like filthy rags, but after being born again we are not alone for we have the Holy Spirit of God abiding in us to guide and chastise us when we do wrong. For it is by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that tells us how to walk in the faith, and if you are not following those standards then the bible clearly says that is a true sign one is not born again or has fallen away from the truth.
For the fruit of the Holy Spirit will be very evident in all true born again believers !!!
F
How is it that you have concluded that living by faith in Jesus Christ...trusting and depending upon Him and being receptive to His activity, will result in "doing nothing"?
Our Christian walk is walking by faith in Jesus Christ. The righteous are those who live by faith. If you want to live by a "standard", the only legitimate standard is the perfect holy character of God. And you will fail in your endeavor to meet it by trying to live by it as a "standard".
Who is saying otherwise? But it's HIS fruit, produced by Him as we abide in Christ.
Our Christian walk is walking by faith in Jesus Christ. The righteous are those who live by faith. If you want to live by a "standard", the only legitimate standard is the perfect holy character of God. And you will fail in your endeavor to meet it by trying to live by it as a "standard".
Who is saying otherwise? But it's HIS fruit, produced by Him as we abide in Christ.
K
First I did not come to that conclusion that we do nothing, as that is what I have heard a number on here claim.
We live by faith, yes, but that faith once again is an active one where Jesus Himself set the standards of how we are to walk and the Apostles confirmed and expounded on those teachings. They did not continue to say they were impossible to keep and follow, instead they said they are easy (Matthew 11:30) and not burdensome (1 John 5:3)!!!
It amazes me that believers who claim to be born again claim the Lord's standards are still impossible/hard, and make them out to be a burden to try to keep them. That is carnal thinking of a unborn again nature to think that way !!!
Again though HIS fruit will be very evident in our actions/works/speech/treatment of others..........
James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect
1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
We will only be presented as holy, blameless (forgiveness of sins), and accepted if we do not wander away from the truth of His teachings and commands in the gospel. If anybody wanders away from that hope of eternal life then they will be told by the Lord He never knew them.
I have used this saying before, and it really is unfruitful. They missed it, so we need to better state it. Either we have failed in our articulation as a teacher or they are just willingly ignorant, as in they oppose the truth (if indeed what you are sharing is the truth). I noticed I said this to you in a disagreement between us before, and I apologize. If someone is missing it, we need to better state it so they at the very least understand our perspective even if they disagree.
F
I understand what you are saying, but I think we need to use a little discernment and acknowledge when the other simply isn't responding to what we have actually written. Unfortunately you cannot force another to accept truth and you can actually make it harder for them by trying. As Ravi Zacharias says, "To give truth to one who does not love the truth is to only give them more ammunition for misunderstanding". I will never refuse a request for clarification, but if they ain't asking, they most likely ain't gonna accept it.
. Another perspective on it, very true.Many people here are missing the point of what God is saying in the Scriptures. God knows because of our sin nature everybody will still sin because of the nature we have and God has given us a way out of our sins by confessing them to Jesus Christ.
Does this mean we are to continue in our sins? No.
Its not about the sins we commit because we are weak, its all about the sins we willing commit that God is talking about. Its the sins we practice that God is talking about in the Scriptures.
Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Notice here God says those who practice these sins will not enter into Heaven. Practice means to willingly do it over and over again with no intention to stop. This is what God hates. He does know we will fall and commit sin, but, He does not want us to continually do these sins just from habit.
1 John 1:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Clearly here God does say we do sin everyday. Everybody sins everyday. This is not the problem. The problem is there are those who see nothing wrong with practicing their sin daily. This is what God wants us to stop doing. Its these sins that God the Holy Spirit will help us in controlling and walking away from.
The whole point is we do sin and will continue to sin until we die,BUT, we are not to think its all right to continue in our sins just because we do sin. God wants us to make an effort with the help of the Holy Spirit to stop sinning willingly!
Does this mean we are to continue in our sins? No.
Its not about the sins we commit because we are weak, its all about the sins we willing commit that God is talking about. Its the sins we practice that God is talking about in the Scriptures.
Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Notice here God says those who practice these sins will not enter into Heaven. Practice means to willingly do it over and over again with no intention to stop. This is what God hates. He does know we will fall and commit sin, but, He does not want us to continually do these sins just from habit.
1 John 1:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Clearly here God does say we do sin everyday. Everybody sins everyday. This is not the problem. The problem is there are those who see nothing wrong with practicing their sin daily. This is what God wants us to stop doing. Its these sins that God the Holy Spirit will help us in controlling and walking away from.
The whole point is we do sin and will continue to sin until we die,BUT, we are not to think its all right to continue in our sins just because we do sin. God wants us to make an effort with the help of the Holy Spirit to stop sinning willingly!