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K
Bami with all do respect it doesnt matter what you believe.It matters what the Bible says and loving the same sex and being gay is a sin and an abomination to God,end of story.What you believe doesnt matter,Gods word does. No one is judging anyone,you are twisting Scripture. God has already judged homosexuality as wrong,Im not judging it,HE has and says it is an abomination,its already judged as sin. Im sorry but what the Bible says matters,what we believe must line up with the Bible.
B
Maybe what I feel don't matter but ask your self this does God love people who rape women are children yes like you said it is a sin but God still loves them because they are his creation and yes I feel that you are jugdeing that because of your thoughts and opponent of God said we should love one another but are we suppose to love those who kill hurt elderly people and those who hurt children as well.
God loves them so much that He gave them the possibility to repent of their sins, and turn from them.
If they will not repent, God tells us He will not save them, and they will fall into judgment and condemnation.
We /must/ repent of our wickedness. We are told that God has chosen to save us for /His/ sake, and not ours, because it is more pleasing to Him to have the wicked repent and turn from their sins rather than destroy them. So, yes, we must repent of our sins.
The bible makes it clear, repent repent repent.
T
I understand completely what you are saying Tommy.You are acknowledging an ongoing struggle you have despite trying to do all the right things to make it go away. I commend you for your honesty and sincerity. Just because the struggle is repeated does not mean you are "entertaining" the thoughts....and I can tell you, satan might flee quick, but he always comes back, lol....especially when he knows its with something that truly bothers you. It's not so easy for us to not be bothered by something that disturbs us to the very core of our souls...and those of us on the outside of this struggle could never know or understand just how much you are impacted by it. I do want to encourage you though. What helps me get through on-going struggles of any kind is continually drawing closer to God...getting to know Him more and more...having a living breathing relationship with Him..one where I can not only talk to Him, but He can also talk to me, through His Word and by His Spirit. That's how close you want to be...and each time you drift, that's how close you want to run back. Once He becomes the core of your life, you find that you don't even think of those struggles or fears much...because there's no room for them in comparison to Him and His love...and as soon as you are distracted...even by something different altogether....that's when those struggles come creeping on back again....and many times you don't even realize it at first. The answer? Draw near to Him, and He'll draw near to you. Always. Over and Over. Love you, child of God, and I'm praying for you. 
T
We can argue all we want about whether homosexuality is a special class of sin, but the bottom line is "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." That applies to any class of sin (if there even is such a thing besides the unpardonable sin, which is certainly not homosexuality).
And those who practice homosexuality DEFINITELY can be forgiven, per I Corinthians 6:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Paul says some of the Corinthians had had sex with men -- and were now washed, sanctified, and justified.
And notice too he lumps homosexual practice in with a lot of other sins. Not that we shouldn't be discussing homosexuality in my country of America today -- we should -- but I would argue the USA has just as large if not larger a problem with those who are greedy, drunkards, or slanderers. Where is the outcry in our churches for how greedy the U.S. is? Where is the outcry for how many people get drunk all the time? What about all the backbiting/slandering?
As a church we need to focus on these sins at least as much, if not more, than we do homosexuality. And ultimately we need to be defined not by what we are against, but what we are for -- the life-changing power of Jesus Christ to redeem and heal us. You can come to him as gay, greedy, or a gossiper -- and He's waiting to forgive you and give you a new life as an adopted son of God.
And those who practice homosexuality DEFINITELY can be forgiven, per I Corinthians 6:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Paul says some of the Corinthians had had sex with men -- and were now washed, sanctified, and justified.
And notice too he lumps homosexual practice in with a lot of other sins. Not that we shouldn't be discussing homosexuality in my country of America today -- we should -- but I would argue the USA has just as large if not larger a problem with those who are greedy, drunkards, or slanderers. Where is the outcry in our churches for how greedy the U.S. is? Where is the outcry for how many people get drunk all the time? What about all the backbiting/slandering?
As a church we need to focus on these sins at least as much, if not more, than we do homosexuality. And ultimately we need to be defined not by what we are against, but what we are for -- the life-changing power of Jesus Christ to redeem and heal us. You can come to him as gay, greedy, or a gossiper -- and He's waiting to forgive you and give you a new life as an adopted son of God.
L
My heart goes out to you, Lisa. I was just like your son was, I lived as transgender and homosexual, and I did force it on my mother, constantly pushing it on her in order to guide her into my lifestyle and "accept" me, believing that I could only be happy if she never disagreed with me about it ever. And I did break her down until she became 100% compliant with my lifestyle.
I have come to God now, by His work, and not mine in any way. And I have come to her to tell her that I was wrong, and she has come back to God as well. Were both still loving of everyone, and do not hate anyone, but we both also want to follow the word of God, and help anyone who seeks Him find Him.
Talking to your son about God is /not/ hateful, judgmental or even condemning in anyway. We are not to judge and condemn, but they need to know that God will, if they do not repent. Dont let the secular world mislead you to believing that sharing with us the good news of Christ is somehow evil, and that God would really just want you to let them live that life happily. We are told to spread out to the four corners of the earth and share His word You can both love your son, and pray for him to find God, and gently push him to God at the same time. If he decides to be offended by God, then its the choice he has made. But a person denying God now doesnt mean they never will, I once denied Him entirely
I will pray for you and your son.
This is totally true. It is something that can consume your life entirely, but with God, it can be overcome.
I have come to God now, by His work, and not mine in any way. And I have come to her to tell her that I was wrong, and she has come back to God as well. Were both still loving of everyone, and do not hate anyone, but we both also want to follow the word of God, and help anyone who seeks Him find Him.
Talking to your son about God is /not/ hateful, judgmental or even condemning in anyway. We are not to judge and condemn, but they need to know that God will, if they do not repent. Dont let the secular world mislead you to believing that sharing with us the good news of Christ is somehow evil, and that God would really just want you to let them live that life happily. We are told to spread out to the four corners of the earth and share His word
You can both love your son, and pray for him to find God, and gently push him to God at the same time. If he decides to be offended by God, then its the choice he has made. But a person denying God now doesnt mean they never will, I once denied Him entirely I will pray for you and your son.
This is totally true. It is something that can consume your life entirely, but with God, it can be overcome.
U
You are talking a lot about your opinions, but not facts.
And you say we are judging, but do you know us? No. But yet here you are talking about all sorts of people you have never met and criticizing them. And based off of what? A long history of observing their words and behavior till you saw a pattern? Nope. You just think that's the case and you slap this label on people with Zero facts or evidence to support it. So it sounds to me as if you are the one judging. So perhaps it's time for you to step back and take a look at yourself.
Loving someone one does not mean that their wrong behavior should be supported or encouraged or ignored. You seem to have a very secular concept of love. I love my gf. Sometimes I show it to her by being supportive or encouraging. And at times I show it by calling her out when she's wrong. I call her out Because I love her.
Using the bibles stance in sin and standing by it has nothing to do with judging a person.
Yes, God wants us to love rapists and pedophiles. But does that mean we ignore their behavior and let them rape and abuse children? If we say it's wrong to tape or molest children are we being judgmental? Should we ignore it and let it continue so we don't judge? See, your own argument only works if you stop half way, like you did. But when you follow that thinking all the way it actually proves you wrong. You just proved yourself wrong.
Paul, who wrote the majority of the New Testament, even documents an occasion where incest was going on in the church. The two involved had been spoken to by church leadership over and over and still refused to quit or even acknowledge it was wrong. Pauls response? Aww. Poor things. Let's not judge them. WRONG. Paul said to kick them out of the church until they quit their incest. He didn't say 'don't judge'.
What the bible says about judging, for real, is that Chriatans are to 'judge a tree by its fruit'. Wait, what? Yes we are, in certain circumstances, Called to judge.
But is calling out a sin judging? No. Because the bible refers to homosexuality as an 'abomination'. Gods words. So, other than a misunderstanding of scripture and your 'feelings' do you have any real concrete, verifiable information to dispute with? Or just keep telling us your feelings and accusing us of things you're just as guilty of?
And you say we are judging, but do you know us? No. But yet here you are talking about all sorts of people you have never met and criticizing them. And based off of what? A long history of observing their words and behavior till you saw a pattern? Nope. You just think that's the case and you slap this label on people with Zero facts or evidence to support it. So it sounds to me as if you are the one judging. So perhaps it's time for you to step back and take a look at yourself.
Loving someone one does not mean that their wrong behavior should be supported or encouraged or ignored. You seem to have a very secular concept of love. I love my gf. Sometimes I show it to her by being supportive or encouraging. And at times I show it by calling her out when she's wrong. I call her out Because I love her.
Using the bibles stance in sin and standing by it has nothing to do with judging a person.
Yes, God wants us to love rapists and pedophiles. But does that mean we ignore their behavior and let them rape and abuse children? If we say it's wrong to tape or molest children are we being judgmental? Should we ignore it and let it continue so we don't judge? See, your own argument only works if you stop half way, like you did. But when you follow that thinking all the way it actually proves you wrong. You just proved yourself wrong.
Paul, who wrote the majority of the New Testament, even documents an occasion where incest was going on in the church. The two involved had been spoken to by church leadership over and over and still refused to quit or even acknowledge it was wrong. Pauls response? Aww. Poor things. Let's not judge them. WRONG. Paul said to kick them out of the church until they quit their incest. He didn't say 'don't judge'.
What the bible says about judging, for real, is that Chriatans are to 'judge a tree by its fruit'. Wait, what? Yes we are, in certain circumstances, Called to judge.
But is calling out a sin judging? No. Because the bible refers to homosexuality as an 'abomination'. Gods words. So, other than a misunderstanding of scripture and your 'feelings' do you have any real concrete, verifiable information to dispute with? Or just keep telling us your feelings and accusing us of things you're just as guilty of?
M
I don't think most folks are trying to justify and excuse other sins as they are this sin...There seems to be a direct attempt by many to bring the PC standards of the world and impose them upon the church. We soon will see it called a hate crime to tell the truth about this sin.... We already have the government trying to promote this sin, by force of law. So maybe that's why this sin is often brought up and many feel it needs to be discussed?
I would agree with Tommy2 on preaching the Gospel, that men and women who once were homosexual who have accepted Christ are now clean and free to follow Him. But I do think that we need to speak more about homosexuality, because the world is focused on it so much right now, and there are false doctrines being spread like /wildfire/ about it, teachings like its in your /genes/, and cant be controlled, that denying your desires is harmful for you, and people who encourage self restraint are practicers of extreme violence and discrimination, and even in the church, there are those trying to twists Gods words in order to make homosexuality allowed within the church. Its a literal war going on, and sadly most of the world wants to take the path that goes /against/ God, having no /real/ idea what they are doing to themselves by taking that path.
These people do need to Gospel.
These people do need to Gospel.
L
Paul is judging the behavior of Christians within the church, which is what he's supposed to do. No, we are not to "judge" every one else. Yes, you can judge a tree by its fruit...in order to determine whether they are truly of the spirit or not...that doesn't mean we as Christians have the right to judge homosexuals or anyone else for that matter. And to compare a homosexual to a pedophile, rapist, or an incestual being is just plain ignorance. Homosexuality is not the only sin referred to as an "abomination" I don't have to make excuses for it either....just like I don't have to make excuses for your own sin. That is between you and God. Our job is to love our enemies, and while sharing the Gospel is part of our work, it must be in truth and grace, just as we are commanded. We tend to forget what love is. Read Corinthians again...and again....and again....that is the love Jesus wants us to have for our enemies....INCLUDING homosexuals. You up for that task? That is HIS command to us.
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Lis45, I have to disagree with you on that. We as Christians according to the Bible are allowed to use righteous judgment on those in the church as well as those outside of it. Did not John the Baptist confront Herod about him having his brother's wife, Herodias? Did not Daniel confront Belshazzar and mention the sins that he did against God? Did not Jesus call out the Pharisees? Yes, God is the ultimate judge but when the Bible says something is a sin, we must call it a sin. That does not take away from loving a person. Remember what Jesus said, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength AND love your neighbor (not accepting anything that is sinful including your own sin) as yourself. Comparing homosexuality to pedophila, rape, and incest is not just plain ignorance. In the Old Testament where it mentions these sexual sins, it goes down a list and through this list, you can see connections to these. If you accept one of these, then what is stopping you from accepting them all? That is a slippery slope. The people calling sin a sin, are not forgetting what love is. Besides warning someone about a sin, I think was mentioned also in Ezekiel. Homosexuals are not our enemies, but a lot who follow militant pro-homosexuality activists like GLAAD, GLSEN, Stonewall, etc consider us their enemies and ridicule, mock, hate, and go Gestapo on people they don't like. Where is the love in that? Now of course we should not right away when we are talking to someone who is a homosexual, right away say it is a sin. We must become friends with them and at the right point, when they bring it up not us, speak the truth in love and then be prepared for any consequences. God bless you, brothers and sisters in Christ.
L
First of all, comparing someone struggling with homosexuality a liar, thief, pervert, or whatever else you come up with, is downright disgusting. God forbid you have a child that is gay. I would feel most sorry for he or she. Acceptance is NOT the same thing as approval. Here's a link to a Rick Warren Devotional that hits the button on this issue scripturally: Acceptance Is Not Approval
When I accept my sons choice of continuing in this lifestyle, it means I accept the fact that it was his choice and his choice alone. I will love him regardless, just like Christ and God the Father loves us regardless. This doesn't mean that I agree or approve of this choice. It does mean that I will love my son despite ANY choices he makes, poor or wise. It is called loving without conditions. I will never "force" my son into making a choice between God and his sexual orientation with the threat of losing my love or respect as a human being. I do hope and pray earnestly that he chooses God, just as the father of the prodigal did.
When I accept my sons choice of continuing in this lifestyle, it means I accept the fact that it was his choice and his choice alone. I will love him regardless, just like Christ and God the Father loves us regardless. This doesn't mean that I agree or approve of this choice. It does mean that I will love my son despite ANY choices he makes, poor or wise. It is called loving without conditions. I will never "force" my son into making a choice between God and his sexual orientation with the threat of losing my love or respect as a human being. I do hope and pray earnestly that he chooses God, just as the father of the prodigal did.
L
Um...I'm not saying homosexuality is not a sexual sin. But even reading down a list, I cannot in good conscience compare someone struggling with homosexuality to a pedophile or rapist, because they (the people, that is) are not the same. Love your neighbor....you are right...remember Jesus's example of who a neighbor is? It was in the parable of the good Samaratin. Your neighbor...your enemy...love your neighbor...love your enemies. You don't have to approve of their sin, but by God, you can accept them as a fallen human being who is and was no different than yourself before Christ...AND love them as they are...without being "repulsed' by them. You can't wait until they're "sin-less" to love them. My God, if the Lord did that to us, he wouldn't be loving anyone. Just sayin'. I think the problem here is that often time Christians have a hard time separating the sin from the sinner to the point their repulsion of the sin becomes repulsion of the sinner.
M
You seem to say one thing one min and then something else the next? Homosexual behavior and lust is condemned in absolute terms under both the Old and New Testaments ...Now you keep talking about someone in the struggle against this sin... I think we all can agree those folks deserve our compassion and help...but most are not in a struggle accept to try and get others to approve and promote this sin....these people deserve to be rebuked and reproved with the truth of Gods Word.
Homosexuals are not our enemies.
And if we did what you said, just accepted every homosexual with a smile on our face, and chose to refuse to warn them of Gods word, not only would they be held in condemnation, but I dont believe God would be all to happy with us, either. It is our job to spread the word, and a part of that word is to warn everyone to repent. If man will not repent, he will fall into judgement. There is only one way to escape it. And it is NOT "dont upset your neighbor with Gods word".
And I think the problem is people mixing up what they dont want to hear with hate. Telling the world that being warned that God hates homosexuality is a hateful act. They dont understand what they say when they say this, they are only looking at their immediate earthly pleasure, and not to what is to come in the end.