LORDSHIP SALVATION

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

so what is the cut off which proves I have enough works to prove my faith is real. and I did not work hard enough, so my faith must be dead?

Of course, for those of us who have studied the word of God. James gives us the answer.

If I claim I have faith (he never said he had faith, he said he claimed to have faith) Yet have NO WORK..

So. the answer, is if I claim to have faith, but have zero zip nada works, then my faith is dead.

Of course, if we use this to prove one has to work to prove faith, then any number above zero zip nada works, would be enough to prove faith is real.

ie, I would only need one work of God in my life to prove I was saved.

Yet you will not see these Lordshipers teaching this

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

The links do not work for me, and you have been asked to supply them.

Here is the evidence I have provided:

An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

What follows is from the Grace Community Church Distinctive on Lordship Salvation . It was adapted from John MacArthur's material on the topic of lordship salvation, and serves as an excellent introduction to the subject.
The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus' message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, but at the same time it was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness. Our Lord's words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matthew 7:13-23).
Present-day evangelicalism, by and large, ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and more shallow, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person's behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him.
This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as "easy-believism," stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as lordship salvation.
The Distinctives of Lordship Salvation
There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.
What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of "easy-believism"? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.
First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.
Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1-5, 8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Philippians 1:6; cf. Hebrews 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing.
Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.
Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.
Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a post-conversion act of dedication.
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.
Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.
Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one's faith.
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing.
Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior.
This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations.

Link

God bless.

ember · Nov 3, 2015

I have reported your posts pilgrim

I am not ignorant nor am I ridiculous

You need to learn to converse without personal attacks...as a Christian, I would hope you would refrain from such behavior

FYI, lordship salvation is refuted around the globe with MacArthur having somewhat of a cult following...in other words, the minority accepts a false doctrine and then sets about abusing what others believe.

MacArthur defends his position with strong remarks and basically tells everyone else they are wrong and you had better not question anything.

That, has the makings of a cult. He didn't arrive there overnight...it's been ongoing for some time

ember · Nov 3, 2015

If anyone else has a problem with the links I have posted, kindly let me know

They work fine for me

Thanks

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

P1LGR1M said:

Get back to what, All you have to do is say,

Yes EG, I misunderstood you. You do teach that there are different stages of sonship. ad you do teach a person can not be saved and have zero change in his life. and of course, Your right EG, I do not need Lordship Salvation doctrines to know those things, The word of God shows them quite well themselves. (even if I believe Lordship teaches these things, That is not the point you were trying to make EG, which is what you tried to say to begin with)

But no. Instead you want to continue to puff yourself up..

Good luck with that and good luck getting anyone to listen to you.

ember · Nov 3, 2015

anyway pilgrim, until you learn to converse in a civil and unaccusatory manner, I'm not going to respond to you

please note I will contribute to the thread, but I am not interested in being on the receiving end of your disdain

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

So you are not saying you are right?

Ridiculous.

Go ahead and report me, nothing I have said is anything I do not myself believe is true. You are bearing false witness and misrepresenting MacArthur.

And MacArthur has a cult?

Strange, but cult-like behavior is not something many would associate with expository preaching, lol

God bless.

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

Nor will you address the issues that have been raised which began with you implying Macarthur and Lordship Salvation is works-based.

It's your choice. Just keep in mind that I will still address the false witness you present.

God bless.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

so does anyone actually have MacArthur's own words? Not just what some church says he said??

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Dream on, lol. You are in error to support bearing false witness, and condoning it.

Next post, which you liked, lol, will illustrate the fact that you are more interested in justifying yourself than with truth.

God bless.

ember · Nov 3, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

I truly cannot comprehend how someone can put the cart before the horse like this

MacArthur is very outspoken against the gifts of the Holy Spirit...teaching is one of the gifts

Sometimes I wonder if when a person does that, God allows them to become deceived

People need to understand that even if you do not believe everything in scripture, you are far better off just closing your mouth about it instead of attacking people who are not like you.

I maintain and will continue to state that no one has all the truth or all the answers and we are not all in the same place with God but He is the One who keeps us...He is the One who is faithful

All the rest is last month's garbage

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

P1LGR1M said:

Fine, consider yourself on report..

and I do not report people. but your refusal to admit you are in error is for the birds, I have proved it more than enough yet you stilll refuse to admit.

ember · Nov 3, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

well yes

there are direct excerpts from his book in my posts...again, if the link does not work as pilgrim said it does not, please
let me know because it works fine for me

thanks

anyway, you can just google MacArthur and lordship salvation....there are also youtube vids of him speaking these things

he does have some good things to say, but this teaching is not one of them

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

P1LGR1M said:

And sadly your refusal to admit you made an error. and continued act of disrespecting others with your mistakes, has caused me to report a post for my second time in 4 years..

If your going to act this way, You deserve whatever you get, I tried to show you grace, you refused to accept it.

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

Never made the claim?

ember said:

So you agree with what I said? lol

Right.

So now you are still not saying that MacArthur is works-based? You have been consistent all along?

God bless.

prodigal · Nov 3, 2015

Hi Ember, link works for me,

addressed to all:

i like some of john macauthur but dont agree with all.. mostly though, i wouldn't let that get in the way of gods command for me to love my neighbour and thats includes the way that i communicate with them too. i agree no one is innocent here, but hey, aren't we all about fresh starts.

Everyday is new.!!. and here's something we could all think about....

Matthew 5:9New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

MacArthur is no even alive anymore. Why are we following him? And not God.

I do not get why people in the church have to follow these men who did not even live when Christ lived or in NT or OT times..

MacArthur may have said some very good things, worthy of rereading, It does not mean everything he said is ok. We should never put our eternity in the hands of any man..

I feel like I am living in a young and immature church like paul had to deal with.

I am of calvin, I am of arminian, I am of MaCarther, I am of " insert the name of some reformer"

I mean really??

P1LGR1M · Nov 3, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Here it is again, taken directly from his site:

An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

What follows is from the Grace Community Church Distinctive on Lordship Salvation . It was adapted from John MacArthur's material on the topic of lordship salvation, and serves as an excellent introduction to the subject.
The gospel that Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience, not just a plea to make a decision or pray a prayer. Jesus' message liberated people from the bondage of their sin while it confronted and condemned hypocrisy. It was an offer of eternal life and forgiveness for repentant sinners, but at the same time it was a rebuke to outwardly religious people whose lives were devoid of true righteousness. It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness. Our Lord's words about eternal life were invariably accompanied by warnings to those who might be tempted to take salvation lightly. He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it. He said many who call him Lord will be forbidden from entering the kingdom of heaven (cf. Matthew 7:13-23).
Present-day evangelicalism, by and large, ignores these warnings. The prevailing view of what constitutes saving faith continues to grow broader and more shallow, while the portrayal of Christ in preaching and witnessing becomes fuzzy. Anyone who claims to be a Christian can find evangelicals willing to accept a profession of faith, whether or not the person's behavior shows any evidence of commitment to Christ. In this way, faith has become merely an intellectual exercise. Instead of calling men and women to surrender to Christ, modern evangelism asks them only to accept some basic facts about Him.
This shallow understanding of salvation and the gospel, known as "easy-believism," stands in stark contrast to what the Bible teaches. To put it simply, the gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ's authority. This, in a nutshell, is what is commonly referred to as lordship salvation.
The Distinctives of Lordship Salvation
There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly.
What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of "easy-believism"? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel.
First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation.
Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1-5, 8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Philippians 1:6; cf. Hebrews 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing.
Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). In other words, all true believers follow Jesus (John 10:27-28). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that saving faith is simply being convinced or giving credence to the truth of the gospel and does not include a personal commitment to the person of Christ.
Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6). The unbroken pattern of sin and enmity with God will not continue when a person is born again (1 John 3:9-10). Those with genuine faith follow Christ (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God's commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God's Word (John 8:31), keep God's Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 3:14). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that although some spiritual fruit is inevitable, that fruit might not be visible to others and Christians can even lapse into a state of permanent spiritual barrenness.
Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven. In contrast, according to easy-believism, only the judicial aspects of salvation (e.g., justification, adoption, and positional sanctification) are guaranteed for believers in this life; practical sanctification and growth in grace require a post-conversion act of dedication.
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction.
Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality.
Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that disobedience and prolonged sin are no reason to doubt the reality of one's faith.
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). Those who later turn completely away from the Lord show that they were never truly born again (1 John 2:19). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing.
Most Christians recognize that these nine distinctives are not new or radical ideas. The preponderance of Bible-believing Christians over the centuries have held these to be basic tenets of orthodoxy. In fact, no major orthodox movement in the history of Christianity has ever taught that sinners can spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior.
This issue is not a trivial one. In fact, how could any issue be more important? The gospel that is presented to unbelievers has eternal ramifications. If it is the true gospel, it can direct men and women into the everlasting kingdom. If it is a corrupted message, it can give unsaved people false hope while consigning them to eternal damnation. This is not merely a matter for theologians to discuss and debate and speculate about. This is an issue that every single pastor and lay person must understand in order that the gospel may be rightly proclaimed to all the nations.

Link

God bless.

ember · Nov 3, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

here is a brief summation of what the error on salvation is (from one of my posts above)

there's alot more to it...an entire book in fact

The problem with what John MacArthur is saying is that he is making the fruit that FOLLOWS belief a requirement BEFORE one can be saved.

crossnote · Nov 3, 2015

ember said:

Worked for me, even on a tablet.

LORDSHIP SALVATION

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