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So you want me to debate the papacy?
The simple answer is the believer doesn't need an earthly priest to represent him/her before God. Christ is our High Priest. To get between the believer and Christ is to be anti-Christ. Anti-Christ doesn't just mean against Christ, but to stand in the place of Christ.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” Catholic National July 1895
“We hold upon this earth the place of Almighty God” Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20,1894
The simple answer is the believer doesn't need an earthly priest to represent him/her before God. Christ is our High Priest. To get between the believer and Christ is to be anti-Christ. Anti-Christ doesn't just mean against Christ, but to stand in the place of Christ.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” Catholic National July 1895
“We hold upon this earth the place of Almighty God” Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20,1894
Well, I've already started on the Papacy.
But...if you think that it's going to be a debate between Sunday keeping Christians and Saturday keeping Christians, you'll be disappointed because we should worship Jesus everyday.....Besides the majority of Christians worshiping on Sunday are resting in Christ, where many who keep the Sabbath, according to the law, are not resting in Christ. Who will be saved in then end? The one resting in Christ....
And if you think I'm going to tell you keep the Sabbath or you'll be lost, you'll be disappointed. Why? If I said that I would be placing you under law and salvation by works.
Still interested?
But first, what do you think of the Pope and the Papacy?
I for one am a Protestant. That means I protest Roman and the Pope....
But...if you think that it's going to be a debate between Sunday keeping Christians and Saturday keeping Christians, you'll be disappointed because we should worship Jesus everyday.....Besides the majority of Christians worshiping on Sunday are resting in Christ, where many who keep the Sabbath, according to the law, are not resting in Christ. Who will be saved in then end? The one resting in Christ....
And if you think I'm going to tell you keep the Sabbath or you'll be lost, you'll be disappointed. Why? If I said that I would be placing you under law and salvation by works.
Still interested?
But first, what do you think of the Pope and the Papacy?
I for one am a Protestant. That means I protest Roman and the Pope....
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B
The sin of Adam is not just in the members or cells of the body but within the heart of man. Out of the heart proceed these things... all the works of the flesh. That is why the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. The sin of Adam was not just transferred to the body of flesh but it became the heart of the flesh making the head sick and the heart faint so that man's mind would also correspond with the flesh. It was covered with wounds, bruises and putrifying soars. So man with Adam's sin is completely depraved without any ability to do a single good thing that would be acceptable to a holy God. There is non that doeth good, no not one. Do we want to impute Adam's sin to Christ at birth, it we do we must also include the heart and mind as well and not just the members of his body. The cross is a judicial act but it was on the just for the unjust, it was an act of cruel death on the blameless and spotless one for the wicked and guilty representative of every man born.
But that's my own personal sins (transgressions). I am not guilty of Adam's sin unless I repeat it.
The problem is I was born with Adam's fallen nature and since I was born without God's Spirit in control of my mind and heart I naturally sin.
Christ was born spiritually alive. Meaning He was born with the Spirit in control of our fallen nature that He assumed at the incarnation.
As far as I'm concerned this topic is over, unless you stick to the context of Romans 6:6.....
The problem is I was born with Adam's fallen nature and since I was born without God's Spirit in control of my mind and heart I naturally sin.
Christ was born spiritually alive. Meaning He was born with the Spirit in control of our fallen nature that He assumed at the incarnation.
As far as I'm concerned this topic is over, unless you stick to the context of Romans 6:6.....
in re:
i don't consider 1 Corinthians 5:21 to be "unclear" or "vague"
oh, i see you don't either .. ? but the wage of sin is death - did the Son of Man die for His own sin (as though He had sin) or for the sins of others? (in light of a clear and not at all vague scripture)
i was wondering, do you think this is unclear or vague?
i don't consider 1 Corinthians 5:21 to be "unclear" or "vague"
oh, i see you don't either .. ? but the wage of sin is death - did the Son of Man die for His own sin (as though He had sin) or for the sins of others? (in light of a clear and not at all vague scripture)
He is the propitiation for our sins,
and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:2)
i was wondering, do you think this is unclear or vague?
You know that he appeared in order to take away sins,
and in him there is no sin.
(1 John 3:5)
and in him there is no sin.
(1 John 3:5)
Here's the NASB*:
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/
hmm, where can one find precedent for such a thing in scripture?
o i know, propitiation!
the sacrifices made under the law given through Moses!
guess what - Leviticus is pretty well relevant. and do you know what else? spotless animals without defect were chosen to atone for sin. sin was transferred to them by the priest when they were sacrificed.
an extraordinary example of this is given in Leviticus 16, where upon a single creature the entirety of Israel's sin was placed.
clear?
the creature was not a sinner. the creature was an atonement and propitiation.
are you familiar with passover?
o i know, propitiation!
the sacrifices made under the law given through Moses!
guess what - Leviticus is pretty well relevant. and do you know what else? spotless animals without defect were chosen to atone for sin. sin was transferred to them by the priest when they were sacrificed.
an extraordinary example of this is given in Leviticus 16, where upon a single creature the entirety of Israel's sin was placed.
clear?
the creature was not a sinner. the creature was an atonement and propitiation.
are you familiar with passover?
Here's the NASB*:
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/
Here's the NASB*:
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/
"Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...."
Let's be honest with the above quote:
What is "our old self" according to the context?
Answer: "our old self" = "our body of sin"
Now what does "our body of sin" mean? For this I must move to Romans chapter 7 where Paul states the following:
Rom 7:23-24 "I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
"Our body of sin" = "our old self" = "the law of sin...in my members"
So "in Christ" (Christ as the son of man) "our old self", which contained "the law of sin" (our bent, our self-love), was (past tense) crucified with Christ so that "our body of sin" might forever die.
* https://www.biblegateway.com/version...rd-Bible-NASB/