The two witnesses

[John146]

Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."

They have the power to shut heaven so that it will not rain upon the earth. This tells us who one of the witnesses are for sure when we look at the book of James.

James 5:17 "Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

One of the witnesses is the Prophet Elijah who has the power to shut the heaven to cease rain for 3 1/2 years. Elijah stood before the Lord and was present on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17 on the right side of the candlestick. The next witness was the person who was on the left side of the candlestick, which was Moses.

Look back up at Revelation 11:6 and notice the colon in the middle of the verse after the word "prophecy". The second clause applies to the other witness, which is Moses who has the power to turn water into blood and smite the earth with plagues. Sound familiar? It does if you have read the passages about Moses in the Old Testament.

Both Moses and Elijah stood before the Lord of the whole earth in both the New and Old Testament. Not only that, but both of them were anointed.

Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:"

While reading the next verses, remember the fire in Revelation 11:5. These verses are Moses speaking to men and then men being consumed by fire from the Lord.

Numbers 16:31 "And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: 34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. 35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense."

Elijah, like Moses, also had fire to destroy his enemies in 2 Kings.

2 Kings 1:10 "And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty."

Compare Scripture with Scripture.

 

[DP]

I'm hundred sure the two witnesses are the bible.Next time I'm on a computer I'll this up with more scripture.
Honestly in your mind,who can be the two witnesses that have the credentials for the end times testimony?
Moses and Elijah? Is their testimony greater then Jesus who is the faithful witness? The Bible is his testimony.
Look at what he says to Pilate.

John 18:37
"You are king,then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "you are right in saying I am a king.In fact,for this reason I was born,and for this I came into the world,to testify to the truth.Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.

If it was anyone other then Jesus to testify/witness to the truth it would defeat his very being into coming into the world.

By entering the temple through the remnant, Jesus will lead the way and give his testimony of the two witnesses(the bible)
Don't you get it?In this way it will be like before.
Jesus leading them into the Jordan(Ark of the testimony) the two witnesses are the remnant in a way,just like in the OT,because they will hold the testimony again.

Who else can the two witnesses be?How are they going to give the testimony to the whole world if you think they are two people? Technology?Why would he do that?He Doesn't need to glorify himself with something made by mans hands.He didn't even want a temple built remember?The world is his foot stool.
And if you think two literal people are gonna give the testimony by some other divine means,why didn't Jesus testify the truth by himself in the book of Acts?

Not Moses for he died and God buried his body. Elijah was translated.

The two witnesses will be two men that have not faced flesh death. But don't forget the two candlesticks.

 

[John146]

What Scripture supports this theory that they would have to be men who have not suffered death?

Not Moses for he died and God buried his body. Elijah was translated.

The two witnesses will be two men that have not faced flesh death. But don't forget the two candlesticks.

 

[DP]

What Scripture supports this theory that they would have to be men who have not suffered death?

Just so you know, you're on my Ignore List. That because it's impossible to reason with you.

 

[John146]

So does this mean no Scripture to support?

Just so you know, you're on my Ignore List. That because it's impossible to reason with you.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

There is a lot of spiritualization going on........but we will know all things when the time happens....

I see a lot of "carnalization" of the scriptures going on in those who do have not have the Spirit of wisdom working in them. We speak the word of God in a mystery by comparing spiritual things with spiritual as is written. But the natural man does not, and cannot receive our testimony because it is spiritually discerned.

So those who are of the spirit of this world will not know when the times come because they still have the vail of the flesh covering their minds, and they are still in darkness. That also is a sign of those who are of the scarlet beast, being carnally minded and not spiritually minded.

Here is a post I wrote about the nature of the beast....

The characteristics and nature of those who belong to the body of the scarlet colored beast are given to us in scripture. The Red Dragon and the scarlet colored beast are that color because they have been “marked” by sin, or sinful behavior. Just as sin is the “mark” of the man/beast being the spirit of his nature.

These being of the flesh, are carnally minded, earthly, sensual, and devilish and will do the lusts of their father the Devil= sinful behavior. Those who are of the world, are also of the Prince and spirit of this world, and are guided by and empowered by his wicked spirit. These carnally minded men by this spirit of covering are given the heart and mind like a natural brute beast.

It is written in Ecclesiastes 3:18 “I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.”
We know this beast nature has been around for some time now, and is not limited to the very last days, even though it is gaining more and more disciples by deception. Again we read in Psalm 49:20 “Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.”

Jesus showed us in the parable of “that man” how this “wicked generation”or the last state of mankind would be worse than his first state, just as it is written evil men and deceivers would also wax worse and worse. 2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

We know this Beast mentality was present during Jesus and the apostle’s time, as is witnessed by the apostles themselves, just as one characteristic of these natural brute beast (natural man) would be they also understand not the spiritual things of God. Paul fought with those carnally minded men who were of the body of the scarlet beast, and of the synagogue of Satan at Ephesus, whose manner is of men. 1 Corinthians 15:32 “If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus,…”

This same mannerism working in the first natural man is empowered by the Red Dragon, giving these carnally minded men preachers, teachers, prophets, politicians, scientists, and even world leaders a place and seat of authority for a time in this world. This manner and power is of the Serpent being cunning and crafty, with words often times as smooth as oil.

The son’s nature is like his father’s nature, as the scarlet beasts nature is as the Devils nature and way as well, just as the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. The Devil is also known as the Prince of the power of the air= doctrine breathed and moved by his spirit= wind Ephesians 4:14 “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

And again the characteristics and nature of those who are of the Beast are spoken of by the apostles, these being evil and unable to understand the spiritual things of God because they are still in sin, and thereby still in darkness.

2 Peter 2:12 “But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;”

Jude 1:10 “But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.”

1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 4:6 “We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

 

[John146]

There are some people that bring up arguments on why these two witnesses could not be Moses and Elijah. One of the reasons is because Moses was not caught up without dying. They say that because Moses died and was buried then he cannot be one of the witnesses. This is wrong because they could not find where the Lord buried Moses.

Deuteronomy 34:5 "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth–peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

They could not find Moses because he did not stay buried. Moses came up from the dead and went up to Heaven ahead of time, which explains the contention between the devil and Michael in the book of Jude over the body of Moses. His body appearing at the Mount of Transfiguration proves that he was taken up ahead of time.

Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The book of Revelation is very symbolic, and one needs to pay close attention to the wording because that is where you will find the clues you need in other parts of scripture to unlock the mystery. But it is only by the Holy Spirit one can receive this understanding. God's 2 witnesses are in all his saints, it is the bodies of the saints that are laying in the streets. Just as God's saints are referred to in scripture as the "holy city" and as Zion. Notice the wording....

Revelation 11:7-9 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (war against the saints who have the testimony of Jesus Christ)[SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

Now compare to the wording here.....

Isaiah 51:16-23
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Thus saith thy Lord the Lord, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over."

Notice above God calls his people Zion, and Jerusalem (holy city), and they lie in the streets, and then God tells them to awake as in resurrection, like the bodies of the 2 witnesses in the streets. Now notice the wording again....


Revelation 11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Compare....


Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Psalm 79:2-3 "The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them."

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

 

[popeye]

So does this mean no Scripture to support?

DP sticks nose in air and prisses away. LOL

 

[Grace777x70]

Of course you do...everyone that doesn't agree with you has the spirit of error and is of the anti-christ...it's all because of the scarlet beast in us all ...oh brother..

I see a lot of "carnalization" of the scriptures going on in those who do have not have the Spirit of wisdom working in them. We speak the word of God in a mystery by comparing spiritual things with spiritual as is written. But the natural man does not, and cannot receive our testimony because it is spiritually discerned.

So those who are of the spirit of this world will not know when the times come because they still have the vail of the flesh covering their minds, and they are still in darkness. That also is a sign of those who are of the scarlet beast, being carnally minded and not spiritually minded.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..you must go and look up every word in scripture that says accursed and wicked and damned and death and destruction that there is...

 

[popeye]

There are some people that bring up arguments on why these two witnesses could not be Moses and Elijah. One of the reasons is because Moses was not caught up without dying. They say that because Moses died and was buried then he cannot be one of the witnesses. This is wrong because they could not find where the Lord buried Moses.

Deuteronomy 34:5 "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth–peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day."

They could not find Moses because he did not stay buried. Moses came up from the dead and went up to Heaven ahead of time, which explains the contention between the devil and Michael in the book of Jude over the body of Moses. His body appearing at the Mount of Transfiguration proves that he was taken up ahead of time.

Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Not saying I am right,but it seems like it would almost have to be Enoch and Elijah.

The 2witnesses will die,as if they had a natural body.

To me Moses would be a chancy bet.

 

[popeye]

LOL..you must go and look up every word in scripture that says accursed and wicked and damned and death and destruction that there is...

Oh wow

Hilarious

 

[John146]

Moses' body was never found. Like Lazarus and others who died, he too could experience death twice. Just a thought.

Not saying I am right,but it seems like it would almost have to be Enoch and Elijah.

The 2witnesses will die,as if they had a natural body.

To me Moses would be a chancy bet.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

If you would reason two men, being two prophets that would have to incorporate the two olive trees because these are specifically mentioned. Moses was buried and no one knew where, although the devil seems to dispute over the body of Moses. Jesus said (of John the baptist) that he was the Elijah for to come as all the law and the prophets prophesied until John (where Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount) with his disciples (speaking of Christs decease) Jesus told them to them to tell the vision to no man. So that was according to a vision, and the vision of all, the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) bear witness of Christ who speaks of being a witness as is the Father, the law and the testimony are shown as sealed among the disciples.

But if someone might reason according to the scripture it might be good to bring those forward.

I could probably reason this way, and sometimes it helps share what you might have in part because in someone else they could add to it, so its even better not to try spinning it with your own words but just to see where it falls to (as you reason with it). This is better in color (and separated that way)

Here is two men (which could represent the law and the prophets) just as Sarah and Hagar (two women) represent the two covenants, that might not be too far fetched.


Luke 9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men,
which were Moses and Elias:

Then if we look here

Rev 11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

We see the same in Moses and Aaron

Exodus 7:19
And the LORD spake unto Moses,
Say unto** Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt,
upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water,
that they may become blood

And so again,

Luke 9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men,
which were Moses and Elias:

We see with Elijah,

1 Kings 17:1
And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab,
As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years,
but according to my word.

And here again,

Rev 11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: (James 5:17)
and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

And just as here,

2 Kings 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty,
If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty.

And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

Whereas likewise here in Jeremiah,

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts,

Because ye speak this word, behold I will make my words in thy mouth fire,
and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Then here in respects to rejoicing or being clothed in sackcloth

Luke 6:21... Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses,

and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred andthreescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Whereas here

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them,
and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another;

because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Even in this respect concerning Christ's

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament,
but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful,
but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

The testimony of two men is shown, two prophets, two olive trees and they blend together by pulling various aspects from the whole into that one picture also.

Testimony of two here also

John 8:17 It is also written in your law,
that the testimony of two men is true.
(Luke 9:30, Mat 11:2, Luke 10:1, Acts 1:10,)

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men,
the witness of God is greater:
for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself,
and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

So what I do is lay it out and compare and readjust where it tells me to, I actually havent gotten too far with this part. I am still taking my time with it, put it down and pick it up from time to time.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not saying I am right,but it seems like it would almost have to be Enoch and Elijah.

The 2witnesses will die,as if they had a natural body.

To me Moses would be a chancy bet.

I would have to agree, as Enoch and Elijah were both taken and so they never experienced natural death. For all we know God may have taken them for the specific purpose of being the two future witnesses. In order for Moses to be one of the witnesses, he would have to be resurrected and die again and then be resurrected again and so I don't think that he will be one of the two. As far as Enoch and Elijah go, they would both be good candidates.

 

[John146]

The body of Moses was never found. He wouldn't be the first to die two deaths. Enoch is a picture of the Church being raptured before facing the tribulation to come. That's why I don't think it could be Enoch.

I would have to agree, as Enoch and Elijah were both taken and so they never experienced natural death. For all we know God may have taken them for the specific purpose of being the two future witnesses. In order for Moses to be one of the witnesses, he would have to be resurrected and die again and then be resurrected again and so I don't think that he will be one of the two. As far as Enoch and Elijah go, they would both be good candidates.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The body of Moses was never found. He wouldn't be the first to die two deaths. Enoch is a picture of the Church being raptured before facing the tribulation to come. That's why I don't think it could be Enoch.

Well, the problem with that is that we have no scripture stating that God resurrected Moses and therefore, it would just be conjecture to assume that. It is more logical to believe that God is going to use the two who have never experienced natural death. What you said about Enoch does not disqualify him from being one of the witnesses. That said, we just don't have enough scriptural information to identify who they are, just speculation. What we do know, is that they will prophecy for their 1,260 days and they will bring plagues upon the earth during the time of God's wrath, which I might add, are plagues that will be in addition to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that God will be pouring out.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They could not find Moses because he did not stay buried

The above is again conjecture. Please provide the scripture that states that the reason that they could not find Moses body was because he had been resurrected. All other people that were raised back to life in scripture died again. The true resurrection is where we will be transformed into those immortal, glorified bodies and never to die again. Of this group Jesus is the first fruits, which means that Moses could not have experienced a true resurrection as mentioned above and that because again, Jesus was the first fruits. The meaning behind not finding his body, is because God buried him where no one could find him, not because he resurrected.