Once Saved Always saved....Read this
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“You’re worried about permissiveness—about the way the preaching of grace seems to say it’s okay to do all kinds of terrible things as long as you just walk in afterward and take the free gift of God’s forgiveness. While you and I may be worried about seeming to give permission, Jesus apparently wasn’t. He wasn’t afraid of giving the prodigal son a kiss instead of a lecture, a party instead of probation; and He proved that by bringing in the elder brother at the end of the story and having him raise pretty much the same objections you do. He’s angry about the party. He complains that his father is lowering standards and ignoring virtue—that music, dancing, and a fattened calf are, in effect, just so many permissions to break the law. And to that, Jesus has the father say only one thing: “Cut that out! We’re not playing good boys and bad boys anymore. Your brother was dead and he’s alive again. The name of the game from now on is resurrection, not bookkeeping.”
– Robert Farrar Capon, Between Noon and Three
– Robert Farrar Capon, Between Noon and Three
C
The problem with James is that Jesus says you can't tell the wheat from the tares:
Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
The reason being is that James is talking about showing his faith before men:
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading"]Jas 2:18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And you can't always see what God is doing because you will damage the wheat.
You can't see the wind so you can't tell who is born again or not and since 1 John 1:9 He says that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins then you wouldn't tell by a person sinning whether they were forgiving or not because they were showing you their sins even though God forgave them their sins. When we see people with sins, we think they are not saved and is that "just" because if Jesus forgave the person for confessing their sins then God is just (according to 1 John 1:9) and we can't call God into question.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(C) Chuckt 2016
Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
The reason being is that James is talking about showing his faith before men:
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading"]Jas 2:18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And you can't always see what God is doing because you will damage the wheat.
You can't see the wind so you can't tell who is born again or not and since 1 John 1:9 He says that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins then you wouldn't tell by a person sinning whether they were forgiving or not because they were showing you their sins even though God forgave them their sins. When we see people with sins, we think they are not saved and is that "just" because if Jesus forgave the person for confessing their sins then God is just (according to 1 John 1:9) and we can't call God into question.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(C) Chuckt 2016
C
We can repent but how do you repent from unknown sin which is called the sin of ignorance? How can you repent when you have an old nature? And the Bible says we should repent and keep on repenting because we will still sin but all the repentance you need is in the word "believe".
If you could save yourself, we wouldn't need Jesus.
If you could save yourself, we wouldn't need Jesus.
There are 2 aspects to the gospel of the grace of Christ. In the woman caught in adultery - first thing Jesus had to do was get rid of the religious law-keepers before He could deal with the woman. ( it is written to stone the woman in the Law ) - BUT Jesus speaks of His grace.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God and the blood of our Lord Jesus speaks of better things!
Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God and the blood of our Lord Jesus speaks of better things!
Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!
Ive said many times that salvation only comes through Christ now. Ive also point out in Luke 12:42-47 a warning of those who lose patience in waiting for Him and walk into sinful living.
45. But suppose the servant says to himself, "my Master is taking a long time in coming", and then he begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.46. The Master will come on a day he does expect Him, and on an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
I believe it is right to say we should be careful to not let ourselves wander back into sinful living.
45. But suppose the servant says to himself, "my Master is taking a long time in coming", and then he begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.46. The Master will come on a day he does expect Him, and on an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
I believe it is right to say we should be careful to not let ourselves wander back into sinful living.
Parables are just that..parables...and they usually have one major theme....a parable can not discard all the other very clear teachings of scripture.
It is in the "lens" one uses to read scripture that is important. Here is a grace-based view of Luke 12 and the beating servants. Sometimes I get more insight from reading the comments below the article....I believe this will help..
The Parable of the Beaten Servants (Luke 12:35-48) – Escape to Reality
It is in the "lens" one uses to read scripture that is important. Here is a grace-based view of Luke 12 and the beating servants. Sometimes I get more insight from reading the comments below the article....I believe this will help..
The Parable of the Beaten Servants (Luke 12:35-48) – Escape to Reality
I believe that salvation is by grace through faith and not by works. With that said, I once was an anti-OSAS and had a miserable life. Recently, I've been hearing a lot of grace preaching and understood the point of view of OSAS and became one. It made me Jesus conscious, rather than sin-conscious, which is the stance of the anti-OSAS.
I admit, however, that I find it hard to defend the OSAS teaching.
For example, if a christian turns away from GOD, we believe that (correct me if I'm wrong) he was never a Christian in the first place. This leads us to the conclusion that a true Christian can never turn away from God.
The act of turning away from God is a choice, the result of free will. Does this mean that a true Christian does not have free will anymore? That the true Christian is not under the power of free will - to choose between evil and good? (Not that it's a bad thing. I mean, I very much rather have no free will, having experienced what it's like to have the power to say no, or yes, to evil.)
If that's a yes, I'll be tempted to consider the teaching of predestination. But then what does that make of God? Unjust? If that's a no, then that makes no sense xD. With that said, though, I still believe (though it beats my logical thinking) that I was saved by grace and that I'm always saved and instead of this making me sin more, the power of the Cross produces in me righteousness and not of my own works.
I admit, however, that I find it hard to defend the OSAS teaching.
For example, if a christian turns away from GOD, we believe that (correct me if I'm wrong) he was never a Christian in the first place. This leads us to the conclusion that a true Christian can never turn away from God.
The act of turning away from God is a choice, the result of free will. Does this mean that a true Christian does not have free will anymore? That the true Christian is not under the power of free will - to choose between evil and good? (Not that it's a bad thing. I mean, I very much rather have no free will, having experienced what it's like to have the power to say no, or yes, to evil.)
If that's a yes, I'll be tempted to consider the teaching of predestination. But then what does that make of God? Unjust? If that's a no, then that makes no sense xD. With that said, though, I still believe (though it beats my logical thinking) that I was saved by grace and that I'm always saved and instead of this making me sin more, the power of the Cross produces in me righteousness and not of my own works.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. None of us are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time (so much for completely abstaining from sin), but no one who is born of God practices sin.. (1 John 3:9). Do children of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10) in order to become saved or BECAUSE they are saved?
It's not a matter of being flawless, but of being blameless. When we sin, we repent in faith and become cleansed, keeping ourselves pure. Those who allow themselves to become defiled by impurity without cleansing, and become hardened to the point where they cannot hear and do the will of GOD, will be cut off.
Hi.
I was in the exact same boat as you and have come over to the certainty of Jesus saving us to then end.
If you read 1 Cor you will find believers engaging in all kinds of stuff that today we would be shocked to hear. Like men going to the temple prostitutes in Corinth for sex before coming to church. Getting drunk at communion....etc...lot's of stuff going on and yet Paul talks about them as being complete in Christ, being righteous in Christ.. sanctified in Christ...being called saints...etc.
People can me stuck in a certain sin but not be free from it. These need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ continuously to become outwardly who they are in their inner person that is the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
Here is some articles that will help you.....
Eternal Security – Escape to Reality
I was in the exact same boat as you and have come over to the certainty of Jesus saving us to then end.
If you read 1 Cor you will find believers engaging in all kinds of stuff that today we would be shocked to hear. Like men going to the temple prostitutes in Corinth for sex before coming to church. Getting drunk at communion....etc...lot's of stuff going on and yet Paul talks about them as being complete in Christ, being righteous in Christ.. sanctified in Christ...being called saints...etc.
People can me stuck in a certain sin but not be free from it. These need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ continuously to become outwardly who they are in their inner person that is the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
Here is some articles that will help you.....
Eternal Security – Escape to Reality
R
So you do agree that these works are works of righteousness and that for salvation, this is a requirement along with doing the will of God(not sure if by "will of God" you are meaning "believing"(John 6:40) or something else). The Bible contradicts you:
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
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Where did John mention that children of God allow themselves to become defiled by impurity without cleansing and hardened to the point where they cannot hear and do the will of God in 1 John 3:7-10? John said those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin, but you say, those who are born of God practice sin, become uncleansed and will be cut off.
The D.I.Y. self-righteous/holiness mindset have a "lens" in which they view scripture because they need it to make their own self effort legitimate in the eyes of others and themselves.
If anyone adds a "but" to "We are saved by grace through faith in what Christ has done only " - it is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ.
How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” Gal 3:3
If anyone adds a "but" to "We are saved by grace through faith in what Christ has done only " - it is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ.
How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” Gal 3:3