Once Saved Always saved....Read this
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B
Do you know what? I can do this all day long, back and forth until no one knows what was said to whom or why or when, but I am not going to. your personal lines in red sum it up for me "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"
In 1998 I accepted the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross as a personal sacrifice for my sins, all of them. I received within me the verification of my son-ship with the Father, the creator, in the form of the Holy Spirit who does lead me and instigates within my heart the passion I have for my Lord and verifies and confirms the Love I have for him.
As for the Law, I am free from the Law, the law brings death, grace brings life. And as for the Law being valid from the fall Adam this is poppycock, even Abraham was not under the law, even the children of Israel were not under the law until they accepted it in Sinai when Moses wrote it down and told them of it, and they verbally accepted it!
All the covenants God made with Abraham Isaac and Jacob were covenants of faith and not of Law, it is this that is explained in the letter to the Romans, how Jesus fulfilled the law and made it "obsolete" with no more bite than the wind through a sieve.
Yes, Praise Him, in Christ I can stand in front of the throne of heaven dressed in His righteousness and be seen by God as one of His sons, as part of the bride of Christ, blameless and spotless, In Jesus by faith.
In 1998 I accepted the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross as a personal sacrifice for my sins, all of them. I received within me the verification of my son-ship with the Father, the creator, in the form of the Holy Spirit who does lead me and instigates within my heart the passion I have for my Lord and verifies and confirms the Love I have for him.
As for the Law, I am free from the Law, the law brings death, grace brings life. And as for the Law being valid from the fall Adam this is poppycock, even Abraham was not under the law, even the children of Israel were not under the law until they accepted it in Sinai when Moses wrote it down and told them of it, and they verbally accepted it!
All the covenants God made with Abraham Isaac and Jacob were covenants of faith and not of Law, it is this that is explained in the letter to the Romans, how Jesus fulfilled the law and made it "obsolete" with no more bite than the wind through a sieve.
Yes, Praise Him, in Christ I can stand in front of the throne of heaven dressed in His righteousness and be seen by God as one of His sons, as part of the bride of Christ, blameless and spotless, In Jesus by faith.
The true grace of God bring conviction of sin and repentance, it shows the truth of walking in the light, openness, honesty, purity and hope, that we now have victory in Christ and have overcome.
It should be testimony enough that for thousands of years christians have found they can walk in righteousness, they have been transformed and faith is freedom. The abberation is the conviction we are still slaves to sin and lost in the darkness, which is why the Kingdom of God has a hard time recognising those who would drag people down not because of known sin but because of their theological ideas, which have no foundation other than in their own personal failure.
It should be testimony enough that for thousands of years christians have found they can walk in righteousness, they have been transformed and faith is freedom. The abberation is the conviction we are still slaves to sin and lost in the darkness, which is why the Kingdom of God has a hard time recognising those who would drag people down not because of known sin but because of their theological ideas, which have no foundation other than in their own personal failure.
E
It is satans tool. I have seen it since I have been a child of God.
The licentious calls the grace teacher a legalist, Because he will confront them with their sin.
The legalist calls a crace teacher licentious, because he teaches one can not be saved by any work, it can only be given freely by God paid for by the cross.
They change the names, and think it is a new gospel. when it is nothing new,, same ld stuff,, Satan has had 600 or so years to study man He knows the lies we will buy, I think he changes names every so often so he can subtly enter the sae lie with a different name and people will not be the wiser.
E
the thought occurs that about all that is really going on in this thread, is ripping apart the body of Christ...believers
first of all, no one has ever said that people are free to continue in sin...that is a lie and anyone who repeats it is lying
without faith it is impossible to please God and that INCLUDES any and all works that should actually originate FROM the faith
some of you have it wrong here...works are not faith and they are not salvation
now go ahead and state I said that means you are free to sin...that seems to be the response in perpetuity
first of all, no one has ever said that people are free to continue in sin...that is a lie and anyone who repeats it is lying
without faith it is impossible to please God and that INCLUDES any and all works that should actually originate FROM the faith
some of you have it wrong here...works are not faith and they are not salvation
now go ahead and state I said that means you are free to sin...that seems to be the response in perpetuity
Here is the crux of the theology. Matthew uses the word perfect only twice.
Once to the rich young man who was asked to sell everything and follow Jesus to become perfect.
The second time is loving your enemies. Love them as the Father loves them.
Now this is the level of the word perfect Matthew is using. You want to make it into a religion all by itself.
Every law, every precept, every idea must be taken to its extreme where it cannot be fulfilled better.
But this is not what God asks us to do. Look at Davids life, or Peter and the Apostles. They still got things wrong, and were not sure about all the issues. We can never be like the Father, because we are not the Father.
But we can obey Jesus's commands. It is that simple
Once to the rich young man who was asked to sell everything and follow Jesus to become perfect.
The second time is loving your enemies. Love them as the Father loves them.
Now this is the level of the word perfect Matthew is using. You want to make it into a religion all by itself.
Every law, every precept, every idea must be taken to its extreme where it cannot be fulfilled better.
But this is not what God asks us to do. Look at Davids life, or Peter and the Apostles. They still got things wrong, and were not sure about all the issues. We can never be like the Father, because we are not the Father.
But we can obey Jesus's commands. It is that simple
Jesus had much to say about those that were refusing people to come to the grace of God..like the Pharisees and Saducees...and Paul was very aggressive towards those that perverted the gospel with their self-righteousness/holiness mindsets..
I could care less about the gray areas of scripture..like when is the rapture..or if there is or isn't...etc..but I will stand up to the people perverting the gospel of the grace o Christ by making it a "works-based salvation".
The true gospel of the grace of Christ has been watered down and it started right off the bat in Jerusalem...and the Judaizers came in every place after Paul preached.....look at church history..for 1,300 years the gospel was a mere shadow of itself before Luther started to say "The just shall live by faith"..it's by grace through faith only that salvation comes.
God is restoring around the world the true unadulterated message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
I could care less about the gray areas of scripture..like when is the rapture..or if there is or isn't...etc..but I will stand up to the people perverting the gospel of the grace o Christ by making it a "works-based salvation".
The true gospel of the grace of Christ has been watered down and it started right off the bat in Jerusalem...and the Judaizers came in every place after Paul preached.....look at church history..for 1,300 years the gospel was a mere shadow of itself before Luther started to say "The just shall live by faith"..it's by grace through faith only that salvation comes.
God is restoring around the world the true unadulterated message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
E
I did not see anything in red, Did I miss it.
There is no condemnation for those in christ. I never denied that.
I am not talkng about saved people. they are not under law. they have been redeemed from the law by the blood of Christ.
I am talking about people who are not a child of god. or people who are trying to work to make themselves children of God.
I am sorry if I confused you.
Again, If you are a child of God, I am not talking to you. and it sounds like you are, praise God sis!!!
The law makes us aware of our need for god. as paul said, I would never know sin unless the law said...The law was our schoolmaster to lead us to christ etc etc.
To those who are not yet born again, They have to save theselves. The law is the way they have to do it. If they have sin, they are dead to God. The law should show them this, the fact they deny it, or water it down (in the case of legalism) is their problem. but it does not negate the fact, they have sinned, are sinning, and continue to sin, and fall short of Gods glory (perfection)
I wish folks would just think about this. satan's greatest tool is: are you sure, are you really sure, have you done enough, have you stopped all sin, are your sure that God loves you, is your heart right?? IT IS FINESHED?? well, that never crosses their minds, because they are so concerned about being good enough.
Beware of the "straw-man!"
A straw-man approach, or argument, is a tactic often described as a logical fallacy. It is the practice of presenting a simplified and often inaccurate summary of an opponent's views, then attacking that summary and concluding that you have thereby won the argument. The problem with it is that the presenter usually does not accurately represent the opponent's views, so what he is attacking is actually a "straw-man", not the actual thing itself.
In the so called hyper-grace arena.....here is an example of the above "straw-man" technique in action.
...people against the grace of our Lord Jesus talked about here will say.."..the hyper-gracers say you don't have to repent and you can do whatever sin you want!" ( this is their straw-man )
Everyone knows that Christians need to change their mind and turn to Jesus....everyone knows that sinning is wrong and will destroy us....which is why Jesus came to save us from. ( This is their attack on the straw-man )
Thus the "straw-man" is killed off and so their original premise shows the validity of their argument. This is not even remotely the truth. In real life no believers in grace says we don't change our way of thinking to line up with God's nor is it ok to sin all you want. It doesn't matter how many times we say that grace is not a licence to sin. It is what some people hear.
What is happening is that people are "hearing" something else other then what is actually being said by believers in the grace of Jesus as outlined in the word of God. Another thing is that it's the definitions of the words that throws people off because a word meaning in their mind is tied to their religious beliefs of the meaning of a word.
A straw-man approach, or argument, is a tactic often described as a logical fallacy. It is the practice of presenting a simplified and often inaccurate summary of an opponent's views, then attacking that summary and concluding that you have thereby won the argument. The problem with it is that the presenter usually does not accurately represent the opponent's views, so what he is attacking is actually a "straw-man", not the actual thing itself.
In the so called hyper-grace arena.....here is an example of the above "straw-man" technique in action.
...people against the grace of our Lord Jesus talked about here will say.."..the hyper-gracers say you don't have to repent and you can do whatever sin you want!" ( this is their straw-man )
Everyone knows that Christians need to change their mind and turn to Jesus....everyone knows that sinning is wrong and will destroy us....which is why Jesus came to save us from. ( This is their attack on the straw-man )
Thus the "straw-man" is killed off and so their original premise shows the validity of their argument. This is not even remotely the truth. In real life no believers in grace says we don't change our way of thinking to line up with God's nor is it ok to sin all you want. It doesn't matter how many times we say that grace is not a licence to sin. It is what some people hear.
What is happening is that people are "hearing" something else other then what is actually being said by believers in the grace of Jesus as outlined in the word of God. Another thing is that it's the definitions of the words that throws people off because a word meaning in their mind is tied to their religious beliefs of the meaning of a word.
E
I never could figure out how the pharisee would see Jesus raise nicodemous, a man who was dead for days, from the dead, then continue to deny he was the messiah.
I think you just answered it..
If I am so concerned with how good I am, and someone tells me, I am not that good at all. Pride takes over, and we can see a man raise another man from the dead, and we will still ignore him,, The truth does not matter anymmore.
I think you just answered it..
If I am so concerned with how good I am, and someone tells me, I am not that good at all. Pride takes over, and we can see a man raise another man from the dead, and we will still ignore him,, The truth does not matter anymmore.