Once Saved Always saved....Read this

[PeacefulWarrior]

What you might not get, is there is no clear version of anything, just perspectives. If you analyse too much you think there is a point of arrival, when it is always a journey. Everyone has an element of truth, and life experience that makes their position consistent, especially to themselves.

Some here continually repeat the same points without foundation, because it is just their mantra. What I have learnt is all statements are just tests, ideas, propositions which over time expose people for their real balance of ideas.

Some close off to the challenge because all they can hear is their own voice and people who they agree with. I would rather listen to everyone and discover what the truth is. Unfortunately sometimes my ideas come out too fast and I refine a point, but actually confuse it. But hey that is the experience. Does this make sense to you?

Yes, this one does. Thank you sincerely.

I agree with you--thanks for reminding us, we're on a journey.

 

[thepsalmist]

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen 2:17)

Troubling:
- God knew what would happen if Man ate the fruit, yet he created this tree.

Interesting:
- This death is instant; there is no delay.
-- Since we know Adam still walked the Earth many years after eating the fruit, we know that there must be a separation between the spiritual man and the carnal/flesh man. (HeRoseFromTheDead)

Makes me wonder:
- Did the struggle of Good and Evil exist prior to the events as recorded in Genesis?
(Reminded of John 1:1-5)

God made us in His image and likeness for fellowship purposes. HE has free-will and so He has given us the same freedom to choose. Without two trees in the garden there would have been no choice at all.

 

[PeterJens]

I thought sin was separation from God rather than specific behaviors.

The effect of sin is separation from God, sin is not separation from God. This is an apparent small difference, but essential.
God designed the world to operate under certain principles and relationships. Certain actions destroy these relationships while other reinforce the relationships.

Sin is clearer in the form of an action or behaviour that damages our relationship with God. Adam sinned by eating the fruit because he chose to rely on his own understanding and not trust God. It was a clear rejection of Gods love and guidance.
Adam accepted the end, death, while satan tempted them with a promise once they knew the knowledge they could work their way round the problem.

Sins against other people are actions that hurt or damage our relationship with them. In the Lords prayer,
"Forgive us our sins and we forgive those who sin against us"

Does this help?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

They literally have no understanding how someone can ignore the obvious statements of faith in Christ, and yet repeat an obvious set of statements in regard to self-righteousness and self justification.

I have no idea what you mean here.. Clarify?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I thought sin was separation from God rather than specific behaviors.

Sin causes separation from GOD.

Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:1-2​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Guys, I talk to people in my church about EG and the points I am making. They literally have no understanding how someone can ignore the obvious statements of faith in Christ, and yet repeat an obvious set of statements in regard to self-righteousness and self justification. I only can assume a heart of stone, and no emotional response. He sincerely believes I am the enemy and nothing I am saying actually goes in, because to me this is just nuts. It is not even communication.

That proves nothing except that they are in the same boat you are in.

Is this supposed to be some mystical wisdom that should get the forum to believe peter jens, and ignore EG?

I can;t believe you have been told by so many people here to stop trying to earn your salvation, Give it all to God. and everythign will be given to you. Yet you still do not get the gospel. and want to keep trying your own righteousness.

What is sad, Is that your church believes a pagan, who is a morally good person, is a righteous person. this only proves everyone should run far and wide of your church, Because it does not teach the words of God.

But then this is the internet, and certain peoples approach is just to wind-up others like a troll. I suspect that is the only weapon they have because they are not capable of proper discussion or theology because it would mean changing something they are.

Is that why it is so hard for you to listen to what anyone tells you? Is that why you continually bear false witness against others? Is that why everyone is telling you alot of what you say does not make sense?

You need to look inside,, and stop judging everyone else to try to protect yourself.

One person used the term, I would never be a "christian". What worried me was why they hated this term so much.

Why do people hate christianity?

1. It exposes to them the truth.
2. Your kind of christianity, which goes no one any hope..

why would I want to be a christian when I can sacrifice so much, and still end up in hell?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

God made us in His image and likeness for fellowship purposes. HE has free-will and so He has given us the same freedom to choose. Without two trees in the garden there would have been no choice at all.

If free-will gives us the possibility to do evil, why can't God do evil?

 

[thepsalmist]

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen 2:17)

Troubling:
- God knew what would happen if Man ate the fruit, yet he created this tree.

Interesting:
- This death is instant; there is no delay.
-- Since we know Adam still walked the Earth many years after eating the fruit, we know that there must be a separation between the spiritual man and the carnal/flesh man. (HeRoseFromTheDead)

Makes me wonder:
- Did the struggle of Good and Evil exist prior to the events as recorded in Genesis?
(Reminded of John 1:1-5)

About the struggle of good and evil coming before Genesis ... I don't know...

I did a little prodding and found John 8:44 which says the devil was a murderer from the beginning (In the beginning?)

I also read through Isaiah's psalm in chapter 14 and didn't glean anything that points out specifically when sin came about.

I have some thoughts about it ... but ... it's probably better if I just stick to the gospel of Christ.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

1 Timothy 1:15
'This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS; of whom i AM chief. Paul himself said he was chief sinner. Not 'was' but 'AM'. You can try to wiggle around with the word 'yet' all you want, but Paul stated in present tense (not past tense) that he was a sinner.

But folks yank that out when its preceeded by what he tell you he was.

Here Paul speaks on these things (this way) but he really starts here a couple of verses prior

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious:
but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious

A persecuter as he says here

1Cr 15:9... Because I persecuted the church of God.

Notice, "my conversion"

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation """in time past""""
in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him,
Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Even as he says here I AM THE LEAST OF, which is the same as saying I AM THE CHIEF in respects to a sinner or an apostle when you are setting yourself out as the lowest (or the greatest) of either for past sins

1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle
because I persecuted (in times past) the church of God.

But he still says I am least of the same due to a past sin (persecuting the church) which Paul no longer did.

His profession is even in accord with Prov 20:6 Which speaks of this kind of faithfulness Paul is being an example of as well.

Or how about Romans 7:19?
'I want to do what is good, but i don't. I don't want to do what is wrong, but i do it anyway'
Once again, his words are present tense, not past tense.

You can see various progressions in scripture, even watch Paul refer to his speaking also, as he "speaks as unto carnal" or he says, "I speak after the manner of men" or "I speak as a fool" or "I could not speak unto as unto spiritual" etc and yet he acknowledges the presence of the spiritual so he is showing carnal and spirtual exist together one age and the other as we grow in Christ.

For example note the progression in respects to being free in just this one

I had to grab from my notes, Im not fast typer.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Sin causes separation from GOD.

Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:1-2​

You continue to miss the Cross entirely.

 

[Billyd]

Ok..thanks...when I see that..I'll take the comment off block..

.I can enlarge the fonts too..and I try to "bold" them too...are there certain colors that are annoying or you just don't like color in posts? I like your input...

Colors highlighting your main point are okay. If you are going to highlight a scripture (or part of it), it tells me that you are going to explain the highlight. To be honest with you, excessive highlighting makes your post look like a maze and makes me want to skip over what you have posted.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Guys, I talk to people in my church about EG and the points I am making. They literally have no understanding how someone can ignore the obvious statements of faith in Christ, and yet repeat an obvious set of statements in regard to self-righteousness and self justification. I only can assume a heart of stone, and no emotional response. He sincerely believes I am the enemy and nothing I am saying actually goes in, because to me this is just nuts. It is not even communication.

But then this is the internet, and certain peoples approach is just to wind-up others like a troll. I suspect that is the only weapon they have because they are not capable of proper discussion or theology because it would mean changing something they are.

One person used the term, I would never be a "christian". What worried me was why they hated this term so much.

What church would that be?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am looking at what the apostle wrote, I believe he had Holy Ghost lens

I do too.

Which is why he called himself the chief of sinners, 'His use of the present active tense shows that he did not think he was no longer a sinner. but he was at present, the chief of sinners

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
...
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good"

-enter sin-

"Then the eyes of both of them were opened..."

(Genesis)

Yes their eyes were opened. They saw that they had defiled themselves and were now separated from GOD because they had become one spirit with sin (spiritual fornication). Their covering of oneness had been taken away and they were now naked.

 

[thepsalmist]

If free-will gives us the possibility to do evil, why can't God do evil?

He could, I'm sure ... but He never will. He is unmoveably, unchangeably holy. This is why He says to leave vengeance to Him. He will always choose right - while we can easily exercise wrong.

Just my thoughts on it~

 

[FreeNChrist]

He could, I'm sure ... but He never will. He is unmoveably, unchangeably holy. This is why He says to leave vengeance to Him. He will always choose right - while we can easily exercise wrong.

Just my thoughts on it~

No, God could not do evil.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

The effect of sin is separation from God, sin is not separation from God. This is an apparent small difference, but essential.
God designed the world to operate under certain principles and relationships. Certain actions destroy these relationships while other reinforce the relationships.

Sin is clearer in the form of an action or behaviour that damages our relationship with God. Adam sinned by eating the fruit because he chose to rely on his own understanding and not trust God. It was a clear rejection of Gods love and guidance.
Adam accepted the end, death, while satan tempted them with a promise once they knew the knowledge they could work their way round the problem.

Sins against other people are actions that hurt or damage our relationship with them. In the Lords prayer,
"Forgive us our sins and we forgive those who sin against us"

Does this help?

Yeah, helps. Gives me two thoughts:

1. "satan tempted them with a promise once they knew the knowledge they could work their way round the problem." --this isn't in my Bible. My bible reads: "You will not certainly die...for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Satan/Serpent "promises" they will become like God (or gods), not so much that they will be able to "work their way 'round the problem"--this seems more like commentary or a possible thought, rather than what is actually written.

2. I am reminded of 1 Cor 6:18

"Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body."

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Ok..thanks...when I see that..I'll take the comment off block..

.I can enlarge the fonts too..and I try to "bold" them too...are there certain colors that are annoying or you just don't like color in posts? I like your input...

A tip: When pasting, use mouse right-click, "Paste as plain text" -- this has helped me.

I don't find color to be annoying in posts.
I find bolding, color and emphasis to be useful.

 

[PeterJens]

I have no idea what you mean here.. Clarify?

I have said repeatedly I came to Christ through faith alone in the cross and not because of anything I myself have done.
To then be told I need to repent and do the same thing again is not sensible. It is calling me a liar by implication but the problem is they cannot accept a christian can believe in walking in righteousness.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I do too.

Which is why he called himself the chief of sinners, 'His use of the present active tense shows that he did not think he was no longer a sinner. but he was at present, the chief of sinners

There you go, so much for sin not having dominion over Paul under grace.

I dont see it the same, he was no more those things named for which he obtained mercy.