Paster Women?

[PeacefulWarrior]

They have peanut butter M&M's now? It's been a long time since I've had M&M's.

What?! Do you live under a rock?! XD

 

[Depleted]

That is the solution most folks choose. It is not the solution that honors Gods word. It is in fact a testimony to the self will of man. The same self will that is responsible for the fall in the garden.

Scripture warns that in the days of Noah every man went about doing that which was right in his own eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Oh boy! So, really? You think God washed off the whole earth because some chick... umm, did what? Which was the most evil thing women did back then -- taught God, preached God, or led someone to God?

Evil, evil women! How can God stand us?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You have taken these verses places they we never intended to go. Completely errant applications.

Adam was created first then eve was taken from his side to be a help meet for him.

Gods order in the church is for the man to lead. Priestly duties are the responsibility of the man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Have I?

I'm simply trying to show how I've arrived at my current understanding, Roger.

Can you perhaps explain to me how you have arrived at your current understanding?

(What is God's order?)

 

[Ariel82]

Second, trying to avoid doing something out of your comfort zone is arguing with God? Every fiber of my being would be shouting in my head to tell me not to go back to that woman during service. It's just not "normal" and people might look at me. That's me arguing with me. Me arguing with God is more vulnerable than that. (He doesn't yell back. Very disturbing to me. It makes walking back to sit next to a crying woman feel like I'm in my pajamas at home in comparison.)

I think we all have those moments. Even Jesus prayed in the garden of Gesemene for the cup to past three times before accepting..for the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I think it's our spirit arguing with our flesh and what the world has taught us. We go to God for reassurance and courage to carry out things we aren't comfortable but feel moved to do,

Might train to be a Christcare leader but not really comfortable because it's new and even with just a small group, leadership is taxing on the heart. You open it up and accept people into your life and give them the power to hurt you. You cry with those who sorrow and find joy with those who rejoice. Told the folks in charge I wanted a co leader and preferred an all women's group.

Prayers would be welcomed.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I don't know who came up with that little bit of "wisdom" but I'm about sick of hearing it.

We are supposed to interpret what we read, and apply it to our lives. It's done with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit of God, and if we prayerfully ask for guidance, we will receive it.

If someone goes strictly by what the Bible says, then an alcoholic would have to drink some wine, for the sake of his health, as Paul instructed Timothy.

What about a person that has a conscientious objection to eating pork? Who cares why, it just violates their conscience. The Word says to go ahead and eat anything, even pork. Should that person not "interpret" the scripture to understand that he should not, if it violates his conscience?

Of COURSE people read and interpret the Bible... as it should be.

This about eating meat used to really confuse me.
On the one hand, it gives instruction for those who are stronger in their faith, to keep them free from being yoked by others.
On the other hand, it gives instruction for those who are weaker to listen to their conscience.
But then God showed me that it is similar to how the law used to be our guardian.
Our conscience, even on it's worst and most confused day, leads our heart.
When we go by our conscience, something has tapped our heart and said, this might be wrong.
So until more renewing of our mind and heart and more growth in the holiness of Christ, the conscience on it's worst day is better than no conscience at all, because at least our response is from the heart.

So until this renewing and strengthening, the conscience is like a guardian. A guardian until the better comes. It can be a faulty guardian, but it's better to listen than to not listen, thereby searing it.

But then my next confusion was - but Lord, I see some manipulating of conscience in these younger and weaker brothers, by those who seek to yoke them all over again...what good is any of it if when their minds and hearts are renewed and strengthened more if these manipulators just use their new strength and freedom to get them to do what they want anyway by saying they should not do or should do a certain thing if it causes another to stumble?? The end result is that they themselves are free but the younger don't understand and follow the example? Aren't you, in a sense, allowing their growth to be stunted rather than grown if you allow it?

He and I are still working on that one, but it is only HIM who causes the growth. And looking for fruit is important here too, because there are some loving brothers and sisters who are wrong in this or that but the fruit still shows, even in disagreement over a matter. And in that matter, they themselves are still unrenewed of mind. But we can allow a fifteen year old to watch a two year old if they are wise, conscientious, mature in most ways. The toddler won't die.

But where there is no love, that's where to push the issue and say, no, you are not renewed in any matter. You are not walking in love. There is no fruit. You can't watch a toddler. You may kill them if we leave you alone with them and your motive isn't love at all - it's hatred and control of others and manipulation.

 

[Depleted]

Since that post about how can you get your husband to exercise, I have been praying for you guys. Stay strong (and weak) in Him.

He stood for quite a bit of time today. (He didn't stand and then crumble a couple of seconds later, but I don't think he's up to a minute yet.) He's headed towards getting himself into his wheelchair without a lift in the next 1-2 weeks IF he is able to stop losing blood so much. (His nose wouldn't stop bleeding for a box of tissues, so that is an IF in there.)

I am so happy how much less pain he is in and how much he can do for himself in such little time. It was a good day.

And the nurses are helping him fight the scheduling problems he's having now, so I don't have to go all mama bear on anyone. (God resolves a lot before I can work myself up to a tizzy.)

 

[Depleted]

I wonder if Phil assumes his interpretation of [1 Cor 14:34 & 1 Tim 2:12] is correct -- or if he concludes his interpretation is correct based on evidence.

Makes me think of the parable in Luke:

49John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us." 50But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."


I can hear modern disciples now: "Master, master! We saw a woman preaching and we tried to stop her because she does not follow along with us. But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder her; for she who is not against you is for you.'"

Duh now! That last sentence sums up my thoughts on the OP. I may not approve, but it doesn't matter, because it doesn't hinder. They are for!

 

[Depleted]

The same logic that allows you to be a deaconness would allow for women pastors, because it says "husband of one wife" for both.

The head is not the lead pastor but Christ...I attend a Methodist church and they ordain women pastors.

I think a good pastor requires more than being male or female and without strong men and women lead by the Holy Spirit the church will fall.

The pastor told me that a preacher is not a pastor because one just gets up and gives a sermon, but a pastor takes care of the sheep. He was Baptist and believed that a pastor should be married because he needed his wife's help with the female sheep.

It made sense to me because it was a small church.

My current church has a senior pastor and two assistant pastors. One of the assistants is a woman and she preaches great sermons and they co teach the new members class.

This debate can spiral down and some folks are kind of offensive about it but in the end it's just a distraction to take the focus off of God and what He wants us to do.

Funny, the husband of one wife is what tells me no women pastors. The husband of one wife is the reason my denomination is also against deaconess.

I. Forgot.

 

[kaylagrl]

First, standing in front of people only merely is "almost distressing?" I almost ran away at my own wedding when I got to the back of the church with Dad and everyone turned around to look at me! (Never imagined that moment, or we would have eloped. lol) I'm terrified if more than two people look at me. So, I'm very impressed your only almost distressed!

Second, trying to avoid doing something out of your comfort zone is arguing with God? Every fiber of my being would be shouting in my head to tell me not to go back to that woman during service. It's just not "normal" and people might look at me. That's me arguing with me. Me arguing with God is more vulnerable than that. (He doesn't yell back. Very disturbing to me. It makes walking back to sit next to a crying woman feel like I'm in my pajamas at home in comparison.)

Lol well its just not my natural ability. Some people have no problem with public speaking. I really had to feel moved upon to say something. He has taken me out of my comfort zone often over the years. I can't say its an audible voice,I just feel warm and my heart races like I don't want to do this but the Lord is urging me to do it. I want to be obedient but my feet seem stuck to the floor. Then all of a sudden I know I have to go and obey. I know I'll feel miserable if I dont.

I remember years ago when a church I attended was having issue. It got very nasty with opposing sides. Into this mess came a new pastor and his wife. I came to know them well because we would often sing at our home church when we came home. The pastors wife was such a sweet person but she was having such a hard time with the church issues and some of the people. She started to fall into depression.She was a singer and one morning she sang a beautiful,moving song. She cried her way through it and people just sat there,stone faced. It was clear that she was emotionally distraught.She got up from the piano and rushed to the bathroom. I knew she was upset. Again I had the inner dialogue. I felt to go but it was the pastors wife and I was just young, surely another of the church ladies would go. I waited and waited,no one went. Finally up I get and off to the ladies room.When I opened the door the pastors wife literally fell on me. She sobbed for I dont know how long and I kept holding her and softly praying for her. I was in ministry,I understood what she was going though. When she stopped crying my shoulder was soaked. We talked till the end of the service.She and I had a special bond after that. Ministry happens more than behind the pulpit folks. God uses us all in different ways. I've told these stories not to brag on myself but to make the point that God uses women in ministry. Women have a heart for ministry and are called. Some disagree as to whether a woman can be a pastor, I have no issue with a female pastor. But lets not discourage women in ministry. Women if you feel a call on your life,find out what it is and do it with all your might. We need everyone on deck,every member of the body working,the days are short. We all have loved ones and friends that need to know the truth. It greatly upsets me that we have 79 pages on female pastors but how many on reaching the lost? Cant you see the clock?

 

[Depleted]

After reading that article, it seems to me that it hangs more on the principal of family and relationship then a church building.
When I have a problem thinking through something, I pray, do some research, and give it some thought. I have found that for me what works a lot of times is to boil it down to the family structure, that being the foundation of society. Something God put in place as such. God being a God of family, and relationship, to me that is the essence of these type of things.
I use it a lot with government. Like with the principle of health care. Health care is good. I would aid someone in my family that needed help, I would sacrifice, but I understand there is a finite amount of resources, but they need to understand there is only so much I can do given whatever restraints I have, and they have to do what they can to pitch in, whatever that may be. After the spirit of doing ones best is more important to me then the actual performance.
So if God made both woman and men to have peer co equality in raising a family, why would that not extend to any area of life where similar circumstances present it self.
A home church, Sunday school, continues in that vein, so how is brick and mortar building is going to change a Godly principle?

Point A. Agreed.

Point B.

But taking it down to the point where you think men and women are equal in a family is where I disagree. We talk big stuff over. We usually talk it over until consensus is reached. I'm at submit and he's at love, so we each measure by our specific goals. But once in a great while we cannot agree but a decision needs to be made.

Who gets to make that decision? Him. Closed to equal, but also not equal. Equal can be a tricky word. I'm not inferior, but I'm not the ultimate decision maker either... unless he decides I am.

 

[melita916]

i brought more m&ms to work.

i don't know if i'm willing to share.

hehe jk

 

[JosephsDreams]

(This is a real question, not a scold.)

As for the way I see it, haven't I already covered that? I just reread how I explained our governing system in my denom.

I was a part of Mercy Ministries, which was a title given (we're big into naming and giving titles to stuff lol) for the small group of us who kept open communications among the different ministries within the local Presbyteries. (The "local presbytery," in my case, are all the within-our-branch-of-Presbyterianism in the Greater Philadelphia area churches. Something like 6-9 million people live in or around Philly, so the local presby covered 17 churches -- back then -- in southeastern PA and southwestern NJ. One is massive, but it was broken up into five home churches so people get to know others in their area in the church and city. About a dozen are normal sized, establish churches. The rest are church plantings, so small and either growing or not, but they are firmly planted, so most grow and remain.) So, the massive one has a bunch of ministries going on that have grown big enough that some of them are they're their own non-profit. (My personal favorite is one that helps people with sexual addiction problems. Anyone from people who hop from bed to bed, to people caught up in the LBGT community -- even to giving people with AIDs food, companionship, and the gospel -- to people caught in the loop of masterbating.) But the normal sized churches have their own ministries too. I remember the one in NJ had a group of teens who worked all the school year to raise money to spend 2-3 weeks in Jamaica helping the needy down there. (The Jamaican government doesn't have government assistances like the US has, so the poorer people really need all the help they can get.) But, those two ministries and all the other ministries are based out of their own church, so if you're on the Main Line (the area where the middle-upper and upper-upper class like to live), but want to help people with sexual addictions, you probably want to help through that one ministry from the massive church. Even if you want to start one for your church, where better to learn how to do it than an already-proven ministry?

What if you don't know that ministry exists? Starting from scratch takes a long time, and that ministry is so established it has all the degreed people, counselors, and avenues needed to distribute the food to those who can't cook for themselves anymore.

That's what my job was. My little group had a newsletter that went out to all the different churches to let the people in the congregation know where to go to help out with where God placed their hearts for ministry. I don't know if it's a gift, but I have the background, the degree, and the passion to write, so I was the one who gathered the info, did the interviews, and then wrote the story for the newsletter. (The two guys were the smart ones who knew which church had which ministry, who to contact, what they needed, and then knew the elders to talk to to know we existed. I was new Presbyterian, so I really knew nothing about any of it.)

One talent I don't have is public speaking. (Girl. Presbyterian, so what were the chances of me speaking in front of a congregation? I thought I was safe. lol) Ends up, they made me do that too on occasion. Give a talk about who we are and what we were up to either before the service or before the sermon.

Just because my denom aren't into women pastors doesn't mean we women are silent, even during service. Just during the sermon, in which case, so are the guys.

Funny though. I became friends with the women who ran the Disability ministry. We share the writing skill set. (We also share opinionated very well. lol) She's as terrified as I am to speak in public, but she got stuck with that job once a month, at least. Not only did she have to go around to all 17 churches in the area to get people thinking about what disabled people need and how they can establish their own disability ministry, she became nationally known, so had to go to the big presbytery gathering once a year. And then different churches across the country invited her to go to their church.

(She has Lyme Disease, so is confined to a wheelchair, and can become too weak to do anything for weeks at a time, so I have always been impressed she had the get-up-and-go to get-up-and-went. Plus her newsletter tended to be 10-15 pages long, and she did all that on her own. Well, maybe her husband helped stuff envelopes, but we're talking 10's of 1000s of envelopes!)

This explains something of why I keep saying pastors is one thing, but any other ministry is fine. We women aren't second class citizens. There's only one thing we can't do -- govern men.

In a spirit filled church, guess who is really doing the governing...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Lol well its just not my natural ability. Some people have no problem with public speaking. I really had to feel moved upon to say something. He has taken me out of my comfort zone often over the years. I can't say its an audible voice,I just feel warm and my heart races like I don't want to do this but the Lord is urging me to do it. I want to be obedient but my feet seem stuck to the floor. Then all of a sudden I know I have to go and obey. I know I'll feel miserable if I dont.

I remember years ago when a church I attended was having issue. It got very nasty with opposing sides. Into this mess came a new pastor and his wife. I came to know them well because we would often sing at our home church when we came home. The pastors wife was such a sweet person but she was having such a hard time with the church issues and some of the people. She started to fall into depression.She was a singer and one morning she sang a beautiful,moving song. She cried her way through it and people just sat there,stone faced. It was clear that she was emotionally distraught.She got up from the piano and rushed to the bathroom. I knew she was upset. Again I had the inner dialogue. I felt to go but it was the pastors wife and I was just young, surely another of the church ladies would go. I waited and waited,no one went. Finally up I get and off to the ladies room.When I opened the door the pastors wife literally fell on me. She sobbed for I dont know how long and I kept holding her and softly praying for her. I was in ministry,I understood what she was going though. When she stopped crying my shoulder was soaked. We talked till the end of the service.She and I had a special bond after that. Ministry happens more than behind the pulpit folks. God uses us all in different ways. I've told these stories not to brag on myself but to make the point that God uses women in ministry. Women have a heart for ministry and are called. Some disagree as to whether a woman can be a pastor, I have no issue with a female pastor. But lets not discourage women in ministry. Women if you feel a call on your life,find out what it is and do it with all your might. We need everyone on deck,every member of the body working,the days are short. We all have loved ones and friends that need to know the truth. It greatly upsets me that we have 79 pages on female pastors but how many on reaching the lost? Cant you see the clock?

I don't think any of your brothers or sisters could even remotely think ANY of your posts have been bragging. Your posts are a blessing. The Holy Spirit jumps up in me at your posts where you tell your stories. He wouldn't do that if you weren't walking in the Spirit. It's almost, when He jumps in me this way, as if He spots you and then smacks me on the arm and says, oh hey, look, I know her!!

 

[Depleted]

Wow great resource if one needs to rationalize behavior that excludes God.

I will be cold inside and outside if you reject Gods order in the family or in the church. Broken families are the result of the curse of sin. Broken churches are resulting from the same cause. God is grieved in both cases.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So, God has no control at all over anything other than his feelings of grief?

Speaking of rationalizing. Worse yet, what a sad god you have.

 

[JosephsDreams]

(patting Coby softly on the head while passing her the peanut M&M's.)

I think there are officially two nutty women on this thread now.

Popcorn might be just as appropriate.

 

[Depleted]

I don't know who came up with that little bit of "wisdom" but I'm about sick of hearing it.

Usually said by someone who has a private interpretation he/she demands everyone else to have. Just sayin'.

 

[Depleted]

Most of the good leaders don't claim to govern men either but are very humble and try and follow God's direction,

Yup, and yet leaders lead.

(A repeating conversation with hubby.

"How did I end up being a leader again?"

"Because you are a leader."

"I don't want to be a leader."

Yeah, but I want to sing, and I didn't get what I wanted either.")

 

[Stephen63]

Where in the NT did God call any woman to a
NT office?(preacher, elder, ect)

First of all, there are no "offices" in the church. That's a misrepresentation in the KJV. So is "bishop".

How about an apostle?

Romans 16:7 (NLT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews, who were in prison with me. They are highly respected among the apostles and became followers of Christ before I did.

Romans 16:7 (NRSV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Romans 16:7 (TEV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Greetings also to Andronicus and Junia, fellow Jews who were in prison with me; they are well known among the apostles, and they became Christians before I did.

Romans 16:7 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Romans 16:7 (Darby)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and fellow-captives, who are of note among the apostles; who were also in Christ before me.

Romans 16:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Greet Priscilla (named first)and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Colossians 4:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea and also Nympha and the church that is in her house.

Colossians 4:15 (NLT)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Please give my greetings to our brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church that meets in her house.

Colossians 4:15 (NRSV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters in Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

Colossians 4:15 (TEV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Give our best wishes to the believers in Laodicea and to Nympha and the church that meets in her house.
Note it doesn't say "greet the minister that preaches in Nympha's house" She's the minister.

Also note that female names were mistranslated in the KJV to men. Since the Archbishop of Canterbury supervised the writing of the KJV, & also the Bishop's Bible, which mistranslates the same way, one can conclude it was done on purpose.

 

[Depleted]

What?! Do you live under a rock?! XD

Diabetes. Plus I've seen the M&M's in the commercial. The squat guy is regular M&M's. The tall yellow guy is peanut M&M's. Who is peanut butter M&M's?

 

[hornetguy]

(patting Coby softly on the head while passing her the peanut M&M's.)

I think there are officially two nutty women on this thread now.

JUST two???

ooops...... ducking and running (as fast as a fat man can...)