my last argument for obedience

[Budman]

Obedience is a major part of our sanctification, but it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation. That was settled at the cross.

Those who attach obedience to security have no idea what grace actually is. The fact that you can't lose your salvation doesn't give a person a license to sin - it gives them the freedom to serve without fear.

If obedience (obeying the Law, good works, etc.) cannot earn a person's salvation, then a lack of obedience cannot take it away.

Salvation is, and has always been, a gift. An attempt to earn it in any way, negates it as a gift.

 

[Grace777x70]

We live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ now which manifests itself in the law of love!..this transcends all laws.

But herein lies the rub.....if there are no rules..what is to stop us from going crazy and sinning all we want?..when someone preaches the true gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation- that is what people are hearing.....can we really trust the Holy Spirit in us???...can we really trust the life of Christ in us to live a life totally dependent on Christ alone in is?..if we cannot trust them , then we will say we need rules to keep us in check.

This is not the true Christian life. It is a flesh trip that substitutes the life of Christ in us for outward behavior to satisfy a need that only Christ Himself can fulfill in us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Obedience is a major part of our sanctification, but it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation. That was settled at the cross.

Those who attach obedience to security have no idea what grace actually is. The fact that you can't lose your salvation doesn't give a person a license to sin - it gives them the freedom to serve without fear.

If obedience (obeying the Law, good works, etc.) cannot earn a person's salvation, then a lack of obedience cannot take it away.

Salvation is, and has always been, a gift. An attempt to earn it in any way, negates it as a gift.

Well said Budman!...sometimes it's the terminology that can throw people off. Sanctification/being saved to one may mean living from our new creation in Christ outwardly to display the life of Christ is us. To someone else ( especially those that do not believe in Christ's sacrifice alone for salvation ) ..if you are not being sanctified like they think - then you are not going to heaven.

Sometimes understanding terms may help in these kinds of discussions.

 

[BenFTW]

We live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ now which manifests itself in the law of love!..this transcends all laws.

But herein lies the rub.....if there are no rules..what is to stop us from going crazy and sinning all we want?..when someone preaches the true gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation- that is what people are hearing.....can we really trust the Holy Spirit in us???...can we really trust the life of Christ in us to live a life totally dependent on Christ alone in is?..if we cannot trust them , then we will say we need rules to keep us in check.

This is not the true Christian life. It is a flesh trip that substitutes the life of Christ in us for outward behavior to satisfy a need that only Christ Himself can fulfill in us.

VVell said!

 

[BenFTW]

I STRIKE FEAR IN SOMEONES HEART BEN? really hahaha because I said follow Jesus words? or because I gave a scripture that's a statement that no ones gonna be able to say it doesn't mean what it means? really ben? honestly not one person has dealt with the op scriptures. for once, you guys explain to me how those scriptures work with your doctrine? ill check back later to be enlightened......again, instead of irrelevance, deal with the op scriptures, tell me how I don't understand it, how it fits with not making effort and not having to do anything. I guess prolly it historically mis interpreted or in Aramaic it really means another thing.....yeesh.

But ill check back once to have your understanding fix my terrible fearful doctrines that are destroying everyone n all.....obeying Jesus. lol wow. if only I had offered 75 scriptures over the last week straight from Gods word, maybe someone would have considered idk..im good either way lots of Good stuff everyone left, noi hard feelings ben. I think obedience probably isn't gonna work on this group, dang, I alllmost had you all, better go devour some poor sheep and encourage thenm to follow Jesus. ( yes, yes, my attitude has declined this comment) gonna go repent......God is Good ben, Grace is good.

If you were to do that, I am not saying that you were. No need for animosity. lol The point is, what is the solution to sin? Is it law or grace?

 

[jasonj]

That isn't what is being done. VVhat is sad is that you feel compelled to tell people to follow such commands or else. It is void of the love of Christ. Jesus didn't give us commands just so that we could try to attain them and fail and then be condemned (or "cut off"). This is truly sad, that you have ignored the grace of God and the way the Lord works in us and sanctifies us to fulfill such commands.

actually ben scripture is whats offending you so much. you read the op scripture and your mind is saying" Jason is saying this and its against what I was taught by joseph prince" I'm saying to you and everyone else listen ben hear what I'm saying here. this is wisdom, this is Jesus. I am telling anyone who will listen this one thing. Go to Jesus words in the 4 gospels, and see for yourself what HE says. from there go to the rest of the new testament. if you go through the wisdom in His teachings, Grace is understood. its not that we go through paul to see Jesus, we stand in Jesus to understand the rest. My point that is sure. Go to Jesus words, take them as Gods word. if Jesus is saying "the man who hears my words AND PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a wise man...ect His house stands against the torrent and wind. why ? because He does wehat Jesus is teaching. and then if Jesus himself goes on to say " if a man hears my words and doesn't obey, his house will be destroyed when the torrents come...why ? because He is a hearer of the word omly, he deceived Himself( james 1:22) I know what you are getting at " cant lose salvation" that's not the subject, and I have accepted the scriptures on that also. salvation is found in Christ. Grace, faith, and action. that's salvation. "why do you call me Lord and do not do what I say?" is He Lord ben? or Just savior? that's where my point begins, you are arguing from where I have come from. its okay to say I obey Jesus, its Gods will for man. we give glory to the Lord, we thank Him for amazing Grace, and we offer our lives in His service because of gratitude for everything He did that we couldn't withstand. again. my simple statenment, Go search out the wisdom Of Christs teachings for yourself with a clear mind Knowing you belong to Him. then listen to Jesus, forget me, and Just hear the Lords word. if He says repent, repent, if He says, forgive, forgive...ect this point really cant be argued. there is one way to prove or disprove it, Go to Jesus own words and if He says do these things, if He says its not those who call me lord who will be saved, but only those who do Gods will" don't think I'm trying to deceive you, just realize Jesus words rule He is the Lord of all. so that's my point. go to Jesus, learn and follow His directions in Life, with confidence ben, I say this cannot fail in the Christian Life. Just believe Jesus

 

[Magenta]

. . . .

 

[BenFTW]

actually ben scripture is whats offending you so much. you read the op scripture and your mind is saying" Jason is saying this and its against what I was taught by joseph prince" I'm saying to you and everyone else listen ben hear what I'm saying here. this is wisdom, this is Jesus. I am telling anyone who will listen this one thing. Go to Jesus words in the 4 gospels, and see for yourself what HE says. from there go to the rest of the new testament. if you go through the wisdom in His teachings, Grace is understood. its not that we go through paul to see Jesus, we stand in Jesus to understand the rest. My point that is sure. Go to Jesus words, take them as Gods word. if Jesus is saying "the man who hears my words AND PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a wise man...ect His house stands against the torrent and wind. why ? because He does wehat Jesus is teaching. and then if Jesus himself goes on to say " if a man hears my words and doesn't obey, his house will be destroyed when the torrents come...why ? because He is a hearer of the word omly, he deceived Himself( james 1:22) I know what you are getting at " cant lose salvation" that's not the subject, and I have accepted the scriptures on that also. salvation is found in Christ. Grace, faith, and action. that's salvation. "why do you call me Lord and do not do what I say?" is He Lord ben? or Just savior? that's where my point begins, you are arguing from where I have come from. its okay to say I obey Jesus, its Gods will for man. we give glory to the Lord, we thank Him for amazing Grace, and we offer our lives in His service because of gratitude for everything He did that we couldn't withstand. again. my simple statenment, Go search out the wisdom Of Christs teachings for yourself with a clear mind Knowing you belong to Him. then listen to Jesus, forget me, and Just hear the Lords word. if He says repent, repent, if He says, forgive, forgive...ect this point really cant be argued. there is one way to prove or disprove it, Go to Jesus own words and if He says do these things, if He says its not those who call me lord who will be saved, but only those who do Gods will" don't think I'm trying to deceive you, just realize Jesus words rule He is the Lord of all. so that's my point. go to Jesus, learn and follow His directions in Life, with confidence ben, I say this cannot fail in the Christian Life. Just believe Jesus

LOL!!! Oh boy, so many assumptions.

 

[BenFTW]

Thank you for the good laugh Jason. On a serious note, I understand what you're saying, in respect to living righteously. To live righteously is to live peacefully, it is to live in love and act in love. Its a wonderful thing.

You keep saying you came from where I am, but if that were the case you would have grown deeper and deeper into the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and not away from it, speaking against it and even mocking people (teachers) who are bringing that revelation to people and setting them free from religious legalism.

 

[Magenta]

(Psalms 84:11) For the LORD God is a sun and shield; The LORD gives grace and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That isn't what is being done. VVhat is sad is that you feel compelled to tell people to follow such commands or else. It is void of the love of Christ. Jesus didn't give us commands just so that we could try to attain them and fail and then be condemned (or "cut off"). This is truly sad, that you have ignored the grace of God and the way the Lord works in us and sanctifies us to fulfill such commands.

The law of Christ. Or else...

I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and [Jesus] shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet [Jesus] shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19​

I don't ignore grace. I understand it. We have been given the ability to do his commands.

The word is very near thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart, and in thine hands to do it. Deuteronomy 30:14​

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul in Romans changed the Old Covenant wording in Deut. 30:14 - he exchanged the "in thine hands to do it" which is pure 100% law.

Paul in Romans 10 changed the wording to " the words of faith" which is speaking out what you believe in order to receive. This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work.

Therein is the difference between the Old and New Covenant :

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.


Romans 10:5-10 (NASB)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[keepitsimple]

Matthew 18:21-22

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

The Lord's mercy is never short in abundance for those with a repentant and contrite heart. None of us in the flesh can obey God perfectly. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Should we want to and seek to obey always ? Of course we should. I have yet to meet any christian that takes delight in their sin. On the contrary.

 

[keepitsimple]

Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved, for You are my praise. -Jeremiah 17:14

 

[Grace777x70]

This is my testimony of what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.

I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!


I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.

I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..

it will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.

 

[jasonj]

Obedience is a major part of our sanctification, but it has nothing to do with our eternal salvation. That was settled at the cross.

Those who attach obedience to security have no idea what grace actually is. The fact that you can't lose your salvation doesn't give a person a license to sin - it gives them the freedom to serve without fear.

If obedience (obeying the Law, good works, etc.) cannot earn a person's salvation, then a lack of obedience cannot take it away.

Salvation is, and has always been, a gift. An attempt to earn it in any way, negates it as a gift.

do any of you have any scripture from Jesus that supports anything you are saying? or anything other than romans? honestly ? Lets see if theres any support from Jesus Christ further than wht I have given. hmmm yeah okay. John chapter 14-15 gonna just leave a few for you all to prayerfully cinsider who is saying it? and what He is saying that really cannot be taken out of context if a person has an open Heart.

John ch 14:v15 . If you Love me you will obey my command....v 21 whoever has my commands and obeys them, HE IS THE ONE WHO LOVES ME. He who Loves me will be Loved by my Father and I too will Love Him and show myself to Him." v 23 " if anyone Loves me, He will obey my teaching, My Father will Love Him and we will come and make our Home with Him. HE WHO DOES NOT love me WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHING. These words you hear are not mine, they are the Fathers who sent me," read about the spirits role in this the next few verses.v 31 but the world must learn That I Love the Father and do as I am commanded." aboput Losing salvation " ch 15 v 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener HE CUTS OFF EB-VERY BRANCH IN ME THAT BEARS NO FRUIT, ,,the branches who do? are pruned ch 15 v 9as the father has Loved me, so I have Loved you IF YOU OBEY MY COMMANDS you will remain in my Love, JUST AS I HAVE OBEYED THE FATHER AND REMAIN IN HIS LOVE. what of those who don't remain oir abide in His word? see v 5-6....v14 you are my friends IF YOU DO WHAT I COMMAND. ......


you folks Just straight will deny all this clear scripture? in favor of a few verses in romans? John, James and peter were the three closest to Jesus. maybe take their view into account since they walked with Jesus Christ in the flesh and spirit. Pauls writings are a key to a door, they are not a replacement for the teachings of Christ. salvation is a gift, don't throw it away.; remain in Jesus Christ. if you say well Love one another......He teaches the greatest Love, laying down ourselves. His commands are His commands. I can Just keep giving the truth or we can let it go lol.

More scripture? how many do you folks need to consider the word of God? over the popularity of the do nothing gospel? Ill honor Jesus words, its a free choice now because of the things paul revealed. followers of Jesus Christ is what Christians are. and there is a duty when you are delivered, let no one deceive you Jesus ios the one we claim as Lord........May God grant a softnes to your hearts, that you may receive His words, you can find in your own bible. in the 4 gospels......was gna leave it alone but a lot of deception creeping in.....God bless you though

 

[Grace777x70]

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do" because Christ is in you. His life is in us.

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."..it is conditional to this mindset.

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments: John the closest apostle to Christ tells us exactly what Jesus' commandments really are for the believer that is in Christ.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...

 

[jasonj]

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..so they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ . they would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

...just throwin' in out there for us to ponder...

yeah lol I already knew Ill just follow Jesus, its peace and Life. I'm wrong to hear and obey Jesus idk, but ill stick with what God says. and continue on with it. I used to think the new g,o,g was good buit incomplete, I'm thinking now its a straight deception that really hardens hearts against obedience to Jesus. Ill just see what is there and answer when He calls my name.

RATHER than on Christ ? if a persons faith is in Christ alone, why is it an issue to accept His commandments? if its all Jesus are His teachings wrong to follow? are His warnings of hell and being cut off the vine are those meaningless because of the popularity accepted in the world of just say Lord Lord? even though He the Lord says the opposite? do you follow paul or appolos? or Jesus? honest question, uits crazy I never knew the grace alone belief was so deceptive wow, I gotta change my thinking about that whole thing. grace is for obedience wich is now and always and forever will be Gods will for you, me, them. Obedience is pleasing to the Lord, He himself identifies obedience as Love for Him, for God. ill never be found opposing His words as the truth of God.

we love because He loved us yep, but what is it to Love God because He Loved us? according to Jesus and the Lord God ? what is Love for God ? not joseph princes version, but the true version spoken by Jesus Christ on Whom you all believe? if you believe in Jesus. why are His words what they are and constantly ignored and denied? if the g.o.g. is everything we need, when does obedience actualy= tangible obedience come in? the motive of obedience is one thing ,onbeying Jesus is everything God desires for you and I. follow, come follow me, do these things and you will be blessed by them. are you afraid to study Jesus words as truth?

 

[FreeNChrist]

yeah lol I already knew Ill just follow Jesus, its peace and Life. I'm wrong to hear and obey Jesus idk, but ill stick with what God says. and continue on with it. I used to think the new g,o,g was good buit incomplete, I'm thinking now its a straight deception that really hardens hearts against obedience to Jesus. Ill just see what is there and answer when He calls my name.

RATHER than on Christ ? if a persons faith is in Christ alone, why is it an issue to accept His commandments? if its all Jesus are His teachings wrong to follow? are His warnings of hell and being cut off the vine are those meaningless because of the popularity accepted in the world of just say Lord Lord? even though He the Lord says the opposite? do you follow paul or appolos? or Jesus? honest question, uits crazy I never knew the grace alone belief was so deceptive wow, I gotta change my thinking about that whole thing. grace is for obedience wich is now and always and forever will be Gods will for you, me, them. Obedience is pleasing to the Lord, He himself identifies obedience as Love for Him, for God. ill never be found opposing His words as the truth of God.

we love because He loved us yep, but what is it to Love God because He Loved us? according to Jesus and the Lord God ? what is Love for God ? not joseph princes version, but the true version spoken by Jesus Christ on Whom you all believe? if you believe in Jesus. why are His words what they are and constantly ignored and denied? if the g.o.g. is everything we need, when does obedience actualy= tangible obedience come in? the motive of obedience is one thing ,onbeying Jesus is everything God desires for you and I. follow, come follow me, do these things and you will be blessed by them. are you afraid to study Jesus words as truth?

What are the "teachings of Jesus"?

 

[Grace777x70]

yeah lol I already knew Ill just follow Jesus, its peace and Life. I'm wrong to hear and obey Jesus idk, but ill stick with what God says. and continue on with it. I used to think the new g,o,g was good buit incomplete, I'm thinking now its a straight deception that really hardens hearts against obedience to Jesus. Ill just see what is there and answer when He calls my name.

RATHER than on Christ ? if a persons faith is in Christ alone, why is it an issue to accept His commandments? if its all Jesus are His teachings wrong to follow? are His warnings of hell and being cut off the vine are those meaningless because of the popularity accepted in the world of just say Lord Lord? even though He the Lord says the opposite? do you follow paul or appolos? or Jesus? honest question, uits crazy I never knew the grace alone belief was so deceptive wow, I gotta change my thinking about that whole thing. grace is for obedience wich is now and always and forever will be Gods will for you, me, them. Obedience is pleasing to the Lord, He himself identifies obedience as Love for Him, for God. ill never be found opposing His words as the truth of God.

we love because He loved us yep, but what is it to Love God because He Loved us? according to Jesus and the Lord God ? what is Love for God ? not joseph princes version, but the true version spoken by Jesus Christ on Whom you all believe? if you believe in Jesus. why are His words what they are and constantly ignored and denied? if the g.o.g. is everything we need, when does obedience actualy= tangible obedience come in? the motive of obedience is one thing ,onbeying Jesus is everything God desires for you and I. follow, come follow me, do these things and you will be blessed by them. are you afraid to study Jesus words as truth?

Once again Jason...you missed entirely what was being said and you have actually created a straw-man over obedience. I'll repost what was said about this very false assumption again. Hopefully you can see what is really being said and stop this foolishness about people not obeying our Lord.

Post #25

I agree with Ben -

I have not seen anyone in the "grace crowd" say NOT to obey Christ. That is a total mis-representation of the truth and it stems from not understanding the gospel of grace that is in Christ alone or not listening to what is really being said. We are to serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

There is obedience in the New Covenant but it's source and motivation is different from the Old Covenant mindset of "doing in order to get". The Old Covenant was sourced on obeying rules and regulations.

The source of obedience in the New Covenant is from an exchanged life because we are new creations now in Christ and as we renew our minds to the truth and life that is in Jesus only - we walk out that life outwardly that reflects who we really are in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness in our inner man that is in Christ.

The fruit of His life in us flows through and in us to walk in love and obedience to a hurt and dying world and also to our brethren. It is not a matter of obeying rules - it's a matter of His life being expressed from us.

We are saved by grace through faith only in Christ's completed work. We then have good works but they are sourced by His life and love in us. No one that is believing in the grace of God says not to do good works.

We should all be living godly by the grace of God in our lives.

Grace believers may not agree when some people take scriptures out of context to try to prove that we need to do things in order to be saved like " Hebrews chapter 10 :26-29. " which is used continuously out of context.

Neither has any one that believes in the gospel of grace of Christ say there is no repentance in the believer. In fact, believers in the "gospel of grace " say we should be repenting constantly.

These are all mis-representations of what is really being said. Perhaps it's time to see what is really being said so that these continuous false accusations can be stopped and we can all grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ.

So, once more no believers in the "gospel of grace" say NOT to obey Christ. Repentance should be happening constantly as we learn new truth. No one says to "sin all you want" as we have said over 100 x times - that grace teaches us to live godly in this present world.

Let's put these false accusations to bed and walk on in the Lord Jesus as we grow in His grace and knowledge and let's encourage each other to walk out what Christ has already done for us.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.