my last argument for obedience

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#561
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#561
hornetguy said:
It sounds like he's tying his horse to Jesus' words...

Hopefully that is not offensive to you...
Click to expand...
It is honorable and good to hitch our horse to Jesus' words. That is NOT the issue here hornetguy. He has created a "straw-man". Which is the smoke screen for saying that others on here do not "obey' Jesus words. That is the real issue. No one has said not to follow Jesus.

His real issue is that if other people don't interpret Jesus' words like he does - then they are not following Jesus words. So, what he is doing is creating this straw-man and then he is tearing it down by saying why don't people want to follow Jesus? He is Lord and King.

He has constructed a false belief and then has projected that onto people that believe in some interpretations of Jesus' words - whether He was talking law or grace to different people at different times.

Everything He says about the Lord is true - what is NOT true is the error and false accusations which he says about people that believe in the grace of God for salvation.

It is ok to agree to disagree but to say people are not following the Lord because you don't believe like I do ..and you don't interpret Jesus' words like I do - so you are NOT obeying the Lord - that is the real issue.
 
Last edited:
J

jasonj

Guest
#562
#562
JustWhoIAm said:
I can relate. Been pressed on all sides for most of my life.

Falling up staircases when a person gets pushed down them is no picnic BUT. The treasures we find when we just concentrate on staying rooted in and being obedient to the word are beyond compare, like a priceless treasure in a small plot of land a man sells all he has to obtain! ^^
Click to expand...
reminds me of the pearl merchant who sold all he had when he found the pearl of great price...
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
#566
#566
Well I see you have left the thread but I'm sure you are so. ​HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#567
#567
Grace777x70 said:
It is honorable and good to hitch our horse to Jesus' words. That is NOT the issue here hornetguy. He has created a "straw-man". Which is the smoke screen for saying that others on here do not "obey' Jesus words. That is the real issue. No one has said not to follow Jesus.

His real issue is that if other people don't interpret Jesus' words like he does - then they are not following Jesus words. So, what he is doing is creating this straw-man and then he is tearing it down by saying why don't people want to follow Jesus? He is Lord and King.

He has constructed a false belief and then has projected that onto people that believe in some interpretations of Jesus' words - whether He was talking law or grace to different people at different times.

Everything He says about the Lord is true - what is NOT true is the error and false accusations which he says about people that believe in the grace of God for salvation.
Click to expand...

MY ISSUE IS WITH ANY DOCTRINE THAT REQUIRES CHRISTS WORDS TO BE IRRELEVANT. because look what it does to people. you guys believe grace far more than Jesus. those following the gog, are not following the gospel of Jesus Christ. sorry you guys are so upset, but I will never accept a gospel other than the one from God. Jesus demands obedience, gives warnings against not obeying. people don't just need a feel f=good "gospel" the Just need the truth. sorry ur upset, and feel accused, but the gog doesn't compare to the Gispel of Jesus Christ, 2 different things, never will apologize or feel bad for staying with His words, and will never omit the truth to meet a false doctrine. wont happen cant happen never will happen, not me no way will I fall for " god didn't say that" NOOOOOPE
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#568
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#568
Brainfreeze said:
Your going to need to dodge some stones for talking like this... God bless you Jason, just keep on your Armor of God.
Click to expand...
I quote, "your purpose is to preach a Jesus-less gospel, definitely Not Christian doctrine." Those are his words in the post you quoted.

Tell me, do you know of any user who always preaches on grace that doesn't emphasize Jesus Christ? It is impossible to preach on the grace of God in accordance with the Gospel and not mention Jesus Christ. All the grace that is preached is summed up in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and through His resurrection. This blanket statement about people preaching grace is reprehensible.

Yet... all I see is people applauding him and telling him to get ready to dodge stones (as if he is presenting truth and will receive persecution for it). A Jesus-less gospel? How about ignoring what Jesus did at the cross and not rightly dividing the word? :confused:

If people are not seeing the... blatant dishonesty maybe its best to call it out.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#569
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#569
See what I mean....I rest my case....I'm out of this discussion because it is not going to be edifying nor does it create an environment where real dialogue can be done in a healthy way. Have a good night everyone! God bless you all!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#570
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#570
Thank you :) My daughter loves me even though I do not deserve to be loved. :)
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#572
#572
Grace777x70 said:
It is honorable and good to hitch our horse to Jesus' words. That is NOT the issue here hornetguy. He has created a "straw-man". Which is the smoke screen for saying that others on here do not "obey' Jesus words. That is the real issue. No one has said not to follow Jesus.

His real issue is that if other people don't interpret Jesus' words like he does - then they are not following Jesus words. So, what he is doing is creating this straw-man and then he is tearing it down by saying why don't people want to follow Jesus? He is Lord and King.

He has constructed a false belief and then has projected that onto people that believe in some interpretations of Jesus' words - whether He was talking law or grace to different people at different times.

Everything He says about the Lord is true - what is NOT true is the error and false accusations which he says about people that believe in the grace of God for salvation.

It is ok to agree to disagree but to say people are not following the Lord because you don't believe like I do ..and you don't interpret Jesus' words like I do - so you are NOT obeying the Lord - that is the real issue.
Click to expand...
NAW , jesus wordsw are plain and clear and totally opposed to your doctrine. but maybe 5-7 percent. remember I have read many of your posts, I do understand the gog, and also see the straight forward things Jesus says that don't require "interpretations" besides SEVERAL times several now, I have said " go to your bible , pray ask of God, remain in study daily in the 4 gospels and then compare what you learn with what you believe now. so yeah, you not agreeing with my "interpretations again another go in a circle like you always do. your an avoider kinda. just go in circles and make pokes like straw man lol and then accuse me of insulting you. the doctrine you are treasuring so much is opposed to Jesus gospel. Paul is a good man, Hes only pointing you to Jesus words tho. obedience is a requirement. there is forgiveness, there are many conditions. that's my issue, the gog as it is taught so widely today, its what itching wears want to hear.

you all can feel like I'm attacking you, I'm against and now fully opposed to the gog, I used to think it was a good starting point but not now its its own gospel and to follow it, id have to deny at least 50 percent of Jesus words . so yeah straw man n all that haha. follower follow.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#573
#573
Grace777x70 said:
See what I mean....I rest my case....I'm out of this discussion because it is not going to be edifying nor does it create an environment where real dialogue can be done in a healthy way. Have a good night everyone! God bless you all!
Click to expand...

yep, have a good one
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#574
Jan 18, 2016
6,769
1,446
113
#574
Grace777x70 said:
It is honorable and good to hitch our horse to Jesus' words. That is NOT the issue here hornetguy. He has created a "straw-man". Which is the smoke screen for saying that others on here do not "obey' Jesus words. That is the real issue. No one has said not to follow Jesus.

His real issue is that if other people don't interpret Jesus' words like he does - then they are not following Jesus words. So, what he is doing is creating this straw-man and then he is tearing it down by saying why don't people want to follow Jesus? He is Lord and King.

He has constructed a false belief and then has projected that onto people that believe in some interpretations of Jesus' words - whether He was talking law or grace to different people at different times.

Everything He says about the Lord is true - what is NOT true is the error and false accusations which he says about people that believe in the grace of God for salvation.

It is ok to agree to disagree but to say people are not following the Lord because you don't believe like I do ..and you don't interpret Jesus' words like I do - so you are NOT obeying the Lord - that is the real issue.
Click to expand...
I agree... the issue I have is that this type of thing has been going on here for the past couple of months. The "grace" crowd belittles and casts aspersions on anyone that does not agree, word for word, with THEIR belief on grace. They even call them "wolves in sheeps' clothing" and "heretics".

You and I have discussed it on a few occasions. I have repeatedly said that we are saying many of the same things, just in different ways, but all I get back from the grace crowd is "you're another one of those WORKS believers".

So... we're in a "pot-kettle" situation here.

I would never call a grace believer a heretic, or a wolf in sheeps' clothing. Nor would I hold them up to ridicule for their beliefs.

I will disagree with some of their "stands" on things, but I always try to do it with respect.

Jasonj is doing the same thing, just far better than I am...
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#575
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#575
tourist said:
You certainly do deserve to be loved.
Click to expand...
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Thank you Jerry :) I hope you have had a good day! Almighty God, we pray for Your blessing upon those in the church here in this place. May the faithful find salvation, and may the anxious be encouraged, May the tempted find respite, the sorrowful comfort, the weary, rest, and the strong be renewed in Your strength, Lord. May we find joy and peace in Your presence through Jesus Christ our Lord, amen.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#576
#576
jasonj said:
you basically are lying lol.my message is : go to Jesus words, see what they are saying, and follow the Lord. id say the one projecting is you. accuse tho I can take it, actually gives me joy
Click to expand...
keepitsimple said:
You didn't answer my question. You have admitted that you sometimes sin. Explain to me the difference between you going to God for forgiveness for your disobedience and one of us on this thread doing the same ? Is it a matter of doctrine that makes the difference ? Those who preach obedience (but aren't always obedient by their own admittance) are forgiven but those who preach God's free gift of salvation in Christ (by grace) somehow miss the mark ? Is that how it works Jason ?
Click to expand...

Post #128 ... your words Jason;
lol naw ive said several times I'm not perfect, sin is a concession" I write this so you will not sin, if someone does sin, we have an advocate" My heart is set on Jesus words Like it is commanded, when I stumble I repent, he forgives and heals making me stronger.....you all can see what you will. the scriptures in the op, honestly kind of speak volumes. cant really be said they are out of context or anything, comes down to loving God, Loving God is obeying Him, cant really say I made this up after studying Gods word though, ive prolly given 50 sets of scripture over the past few days that are clear. that's why this is my last post on the matter. ive given a good solid pile of evidence, the grace I understand, obedience is Love for God. and Jesus is everything, couldn't have been saved without Him, would have always been a sinner headed to hell without Jesus......we aren't to judge ourselves another thing the paul people miss Him saying, even He did not judge himself because He understood there is one Judge
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#577
#577
BenFTW said:
I quote, "your purpose is to preach a Jesus-less gospel, definitely Not Christian doctrine." Those are his words in the post you quoted.

Tell me, do you know of any user who always preaches on grace that doesn't emphasize Jesus Christ? It is impossible to preach on the grace of God in accordance with the Gospel and not mention Jesus Christ. All the grace that is preached is summed up in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and through His resurrection. This blanket statement about people preaching grace is reprehensible.

Yet... all I see is people applauding him and telling him to get ready to dodge stones (as if he is presenting truth and will receive persecution for it). A Jesus-less gospel? How about ignoring what Jesus did at the cross and not rightly dividing the word? :confused:

If people are not seeing the... blatant dishonesty maybe its best to call it out.
Click to expand...

absolutely I said that and still believe it. anyone preaching the things you guys preach. ive read posts for 3 months, I know your doctrines. I do absolutely still say that's your purpose. and not gonna feel bad either. there is NO GOSPEL without Jesus words all of them he is the gospel. to preach anything else is a jesus less gospel. His gospel are His words ben, the gog, does not agree with The Lords words, its a deception. but if you guys are all so upset and I'm so wrong get a mod. if they think I'm out of line, illshake the dust off, naw no applause that I'm aware of mostly you guys on this thread with pokes and arguments against Obeying Jesus. and that's been from the beginning of thius thread. anytime goig folk hear obedience, they gotta have the other person agree " we don't do anything" were already saved, cant lose salvation ect...that's not what Jesus teaches. find out for yourself. anyone who does actually recognize Jesus words will Love them His way, by obeying them and teaching others what HE SAID TO TEACH. the gog is man made.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#578
#578
One last time Jason.You didn't answer my question. You have admitted that you sometimes sin.Explain to me the difference between you going to God for forgiveness for your disobedience and one of us on this thread doing the same ? Is it a matter of doctrine that makes the difference ? Those who preach obedience (but aren't always obedient by their own admittance) are forgiven but those who preach God's free gift of salvation in Christ (by grace) somehow miss the mark ? Is that how it works Jason ?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#579
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#579
hornetguy said:
I agree... the issue I have is that this type of thing has been going on here for the past couple of months. The "grace" crowd belittles and casts aspersions on anyone that does not agree, word for word, with THEIR belief on grace. They even call them "wolves in sheeps' clothing" and "heretics".

You and I have discussed it on a few occasions. I have repeatedly said that we are saying many of the same things, just in different ways, but all I get back from the grace crowd is "you're another one of those WORKS believers".

So... we're in a "pot-kettle" situation here.

I would never call a grace believer a heretic, or a wolf in sheeps' clothing. Nor would I hold them up to ridicule for their beliefs.

I will disagree with some of their "stands" on things, but I always try to do it with respect.

Jasonj is doing the same thing, just far better than I am...
Click to expand...
I think with you I can have a healthy discussion as we have in the past. I understand and it is ok to agree to disagree.

So if someone says they believe our sins are forgiven by the blood of Jesus because of the New Covenant - and someone else says - no our sins are not forgiven unless we forgive as Jesus' said before He died on the cross to effect salvation.

Would you say that we are NOT following Christ because we believe that our sins are forgiven as the all scriptures after the cross show? Or would you say that we have different understandings of that?

You have seen my posts - do I lift up Christ? - do I try to point people to trust in Jesus' finished work for us?
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#580
#580
keepitsimple said:
whats ur point? cant really see what ur trying to say lol yeah my words e



Post #128 ... your words Jason;
lol naw ive said several times I'm not perfect, sin is a concession" I write this so you will not sin, if someone does sin, we have an advocate" My heart is set on Jesus words Like it is commanded, when I stumble I repent, he forgives and heals making me stronger.....you all can see what you will. the scriptures in the op, honestly kind of speak volumes. cant really be said they are out of context or anything, comes down to loving God, Loving God is obeying Him, cant really say I made this up after studying Gods word though, ive prolly given 50 sets of scripture over the past few days that are clear. that's why this is my last post on the matter. ive given a good solid pile of evidence, the grace I understand, obedience is Love for God. and Jesus is everything, couldn't have been saved without Him, would have always been a sinner headed to hell without Jesus......we aren't to judge ourselves another thing the paul people miss Him saying, even He did not judge himself because He understood there is one Judge
Click to expand...
whats the point? ud have to explain ur issue with that one, honestly I mean whats the issue?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.