Forgiven When?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here is what the Greek perfect passive tense and voice as used in 1 John 2:12 ( and the others put up in the other post ) means in relation to the forgiveness of sins that is in Christ.

Forgiveness of sins is something to be believed and received by faith in what Christ has already done. It is the gospel message that we are to be proclaiming.

Without a doubt this verse in 1 John 2:12 says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did. It is condition or state of being is continuously being true.

That's kind of self-obvious isn't it? Once past sins are forgiven, they are forgiven forever.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you owe someone $20, and your buddy pays it without you knowing, you are forgiven that debt by the person holding the debt. You may not know it's paid, but it's paid, and it can never be brought up in court against you as having not been paid. You ARE FORGIVEN that debt!
When you understand the debt has been paid, you can either try to pay it anyway (which is kind of foolish isn't it?), or you can accept that it has been paid by someone else and reap the benefit of it for as long as the person who paid the debt lives! He is the only witness that can testify it was paid.

Forgiveness has taken place through the person of Jesus Christ. There is nothing left to do after receiving that truth. Receiving the gospel and accepting the payment Christ has already made is receiving His already made provision of forgiveness! In Gods book your account is clean and have been forgiven, the only thing left between you and Him which was unbelief. He will never hold our sins against us because they were already removed 2,000 years ago by His Son before we were even born. Once we have trusted in His Sons sacrifice for sin and resurrection from the dead, we are "in Christ", and there is NOTHING that can ever come between us and God again!

The debt has been paid, but if you live like the devil, the son will kick you out of his house.

Jesus replied to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, that everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. And the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. So if the son sets you free, you will be truly free. John 8:34-36​

 

[Scriptureplz]

The debt has been paid, but if you live like the devil, the son will kick you out of his house.

Jesus replied to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, that everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. And the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. So if the son sets you free, you will be truly free. John 8:34-36​

The problem with your thinking is you think you are setting yourself free by obeying the law.

 

[Grace777x70]

We repent when we turn to God to believe the gospel. We repent ( change our mind ) to believe in Christ's work which has provided the forgiveness of sins.

We have word for word descriptions of the gospel being preached by Peter and Paul in Acts and the message is - if you believe you have forgiveness of sins.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Peter got in trouble with the Jewish Christians when he went back to Jerusalem after being with Corneilus...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." ( this is where we see that repenting - changing their minds to believe the gospel was done )

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, ( this is the message of the gospel because of what Christ has done - this is repentance to believe we have the forgiveness of sins in Him )


Jesus after John the Baptist was taken to jail says :

Mark 1:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." ( repent -change your mind and start believing in the good news that is being preached to you )

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The problem with your thinking is you think you are setting yourself free by obeying the law.

No I'm not. Christ's death and resurrection have already set me free. I am free indeed.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a massive difference between being set free by Christ and then trying to "maintain" it by what we do. This is works-based righteousness and is anti-the goepel .

Galatians 3:3 says: Having begun in the Spirit are we not being made perfect by the flesh ( which is self-effort or by doing "deeds of righteousness )

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is a massive difference between being set free by Christ and then trying to "maintain" it by what we do. This is works-based righteousness and is anti-the goepel .

Galatians 3:3 says: Having begun in the Spirit are we not being made perfect by the flesh ( which is self-effort or by doing "deeds of righteousness )

We don't have to maintain salvation by doing things. But we do have to do the will of GOD. Not sinning is the will of GOD because it defiles us. So we definitely do have to guard ourselves from being defiled.

Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself unstained by the world. James 1:27​

 

[Scriptureplz]

No I'm not. Christ's death and resurrection have already set me free. I am free indeed.

I guess it was hard to tell that you believed it was His death and resurrection because all you talk about is striving for obedience. Looks to me like you are relying on self.

As God gives the grace, I continue to live for Him, and obey His Word as best I can through the power of the Spirit. But I do that because of the grace He has already extended to me for salvation. Also the grace He continues to extend to me in my daily walk in this mortal flesh which will never see heaven until it has been "glorified" by Him. My flesh will perish, but I have faith in His Word that says He will raise me up in a perfect body and will be as He is.

 

[Grace777x70]

All our sins when Jesus died were in the future. All sin is taken care of - past, present and future - we just need to believe in what Christ has done already.

The sacrifice and forgiveness of sins that is in Christ is a done dealt. The real issue is will we "repent" and believe the good news?

Hebrews 10:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

Hebrews 10:15-18 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

 

[Scriptureplz]

REPENT (change of thinking)......... of the *thought* that I can do anything in my flesh that contributes to salvation, to belief that it is all by Gods grace and the finished work of Christ!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Paul said that those who live after the flesh won't be saved. What you are describing is gnosis, the idea that only belief is necessary and behavior is irrelevant.

"Only" belief, eh? Telling.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The word possible is not in the Greek text. Of course Simon could be forgiven, if he had the heart to truly repent of his wrongdoing. Peter said if because Simon's heart was not true in the sight of GOD. He could not receive GOD's forgiveness if his heart wasn't right. That's all that passage means.

He would have had forgiveness already if he was in Christ, obviously he was not.

Acts 10:43, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 2:13, Colossians 3:13, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, 1 John 2:12, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17

 

[Depleted]

If you owe someone $20, and your buddy pays it without you knowing, you are forgiven that debt by the person holding the debt. You may not know it's paid, but it's paid, and it can never be brought up in court against you as having not been paid. You ARE FORGIVEN that debt!
When you understand the debt has been paid, you can either try to pay it anyway (which is kind of foolish isn't it?), or you can accept that it has been paid by someone else and reap the benefit of it for as long as the person who paid the debt lives! He is the only witness that can testify it was paid.

Forgiveness has taken place through the person of Jesus Christ. There is nothing left to do after receiving that truth. Receiving the gospel and accepting the payment Christ has already made is receiving His already made provision of forgiveness! In Gods book your account is clean and have been forgiven, the only thing left between you and Him which was unbelief. He will never hold our sins against us because they were already removed 2,000 years ago by His Son before we were even born. Once we have trusted in His Sons sacrifice for sin and resurrection from the dead, we are "in Christ", and there is NOTHING that can ever come between us and God again!

Nope, there is something to do after the debt is paid -- be grateful and love the one who paid the debt. God has asked for both. Doing that doesn't redeem us nor saves us, but it is part of the process of sanctifying us. And God does the other part there too -- changes us into what he wants us to be.

 

[Grace777x70]

James 1:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

This verse has nothing to do with being saved by grace through faith.

Good works are a "fruit" of salvation - NOT the "root". This is where works-based salvationists miss it entirely and are in fact nullifying the grace of Christ by saying what "they do" equates salvation and going to be with the Lord.

Works-based mindsets "work to maintain the gift of God by what they do ". They are totally confusing the "root" of salvation which is based on Christ's completed work only and the "fruit" of salvation which is doing good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[Depleted]

The problem with your thinking is you think you are setting yourself free by obeying the law.

I fell for it again. Another free-grace/legalist Dueling Banjos post.

No, the real problem is everyone already thinks they know everything so everyone else should merely listen to them. I'm out of here. I already suspected no one was listening to anything anyone else was saying.

 

[Scriptureplz]

I fell for it again. Another free-grace/legalist Dueling Banjos post.

No, the real problem is everyone already thinks they know everything so everyone else should merely listen to them. I'm out of here. I already suspected no one was listening to anything anyone else was saying.

Well.....bye!

I use scripture and I use it to show the truth. Those who have their eyes opened by God will see it in scripture, the rest will remain blind.

 

[Grace777x70]

He would have had forgiveness already if he was in Christ, obviously he was not.

Acts 10:43, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 2:13, Colossians 3:13, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, 1 John 2:12, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17

I think Simon was in Christ because it does say that he believed and was baptized. I just think Peter being the type to be rash and to speak nonsense sometimes - just spoke that pray to see "If God may forgive you".

Peter was growing in understanding of the gospel like all of us do as can be seen of him in Acts and Corneilus. He didn't have a clue that the gospel was for the Gentiles too without that vision.

Peters' statement of "If God may forgive the intention of your heart " is NOT a doctrinal statement. Everything in the bible is "truly stated but not everything is a statement of truth "

 

[garee]

Dont even say that! I mean,that we are forgiven at the cross. There is nothing in the bible that says that. Dont add lib.

Ha! I like that! Add lib......

seems to fit.............. with some.

Christ atoned for our sins on the cross. We are not forgiven until we are saved. Until then,we are in the world as sinners and Gods wrath is upon us

Okay, carry on

It would seem you are putting the horse before the cart. We are saved because we are forgiven.

It's(redemption) the better thing that accompanies our salvation. The alternative is to crucify Him over and over holding Him to public shame as if one work was not enough to drink the wrath intended for us.

When ? It would have to do with names written in one of the books.I would suggest from the foundation of the world. The first six days when God was working . We rest in that work as that in which he demonstrated outwardly on the cross and in the garden, the two witnesses as one, within the three day promise.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I think Simon was in Christ because it does say that he believed and was baptized. I just think Peter being the type to be rash and to speak nonsense sometimes - just spoke that pray to see "If God may forgive you".

Peter was growing in understanding of the gospel like all of us do as can be seen of him in Acts and Corneilus. He didn't have a clue that the gospel was for the Gentiles too without that vision.

Peters' statement of "If God may forgive the intention of your heart " is NOT a doctrinal statement. Everything in the bible is "truly stated but not everything is a statement of truth "

All I know is that all who are in Christ have forgiveness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

It would seem you are putting the horse before the cart. We are saved because we are forgiven.

It's(redemption) the better thing that accompanies our salvation. The alternative is to crucify Him over and over holding Him to public shame as if one work was not enough to drink the wrath intended for us.

When ? It would have to do with names written in one of the books.I would suggest from the foundation of the world. The first six days when God was working . We rest in that work as that in which he demonstrated outwardly on the cross and in the garden, the two witnesses as one, within the three day promise.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

That's right. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. It is because of Jesus shed blood on the Cross that those who are IN HIM have forgiveness. By His one sacrifice, not by His continually being sacrificed.