Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

[Grace777x70]

YIKES! This image is a pretty clear example of taking Scripture out of context, and neglecting disconfirming Scriptural considerations.

Please engage the following:

1. Jesus COMMANDED obedience to the law by applying Dt. 6 to us in Mt. 22:37!

2. Jesus said our obedience to the law determines our position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

3. Jesus said the law is NOT abolished (Mt. 5:17).

4. Jesus said the law is in force until AFTER heaven and earth pass away (Mt. 5:18).

5. Jesus said our righteous obedience to the law must EXCEED that of the Pharisees (Mt. 5:20).

6. Jesus said we LIVE by the Torah (Mt. 4:4, citing Dt. 8:3, referencing Torah).

7. Jesus said that religious people opposed to Torah will be CAST AWAY (Mt. 7:21-23) if not even worse (Mt. 13:41-42).

8. Jesus said that we should pray for God's will to be done (Mt. 6:10)...and God's will is that he be obeyed! (not opposed!)

9. Jesus said we should OBEY Mosaic judgments (Mt. 23:2-3).

10. Jesus said that both the greater AND lesser elements of Torah should be obeyed (Mt. 23:23).

11. Jesus sent forth TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus", Mt. 23:34) to properly represent His ministry.

12. Jesus obeyed Torah, so we should too (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6).

13. Jesus comes to RESTORE the covenant with Levi (Mal. 2-Mal. 3).

14. Jesus said the prophets are still in force (Mt. 5:17), and the prophets require Torah-obedience.

15. Jesus repeatedly quoted the Psalms as Scripture, and the Psalms require Torah-obedience.

16. So let's not quote Col. 2:14 out of context, disregarding this huge bulk of Jesus' teachings.
Remember, Col. 2:14 says the certificate of debt was canceled, not the Torah itself.

17. AND, Col. 2:14 was written by Paul who took a vow to PROVE he obeyed the law (Ac. 21:23-24), and we should imitate that Pauline Torah-obedience (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).


Is anyone here willing to engage these objections I've raised?


blessings to you all in your search for truth...
BibleGuy

Hello bibleguy,

Unfortunately this is an example of not looking at scriptures through the lens of the finished work of Christ and what He fulfilled on the cross. Everyone of these scriptures need to be looked at through Jesus and what He finished. You put those scriptures completely out of context and I don't see that refuting them will make any difference to your stance.

If you want to keep the law of Moses then you are free to but it is not Christianity and Christ has set us free from all things concerning it.

I could take every one of those scriptures and prove that the law is not for a righteous person but for the unrighteous.

We are dead to the law and going back to the law is committing spiritual adultery as Romans 7:1-6 talks about. You are married to Jesus now if you are born again from the Holy Spirit.

I'm saying that the law of love and the spirit of life in Christ Jesus fulfills the intent of the law. The Christian would never even have heard that there was the 10 commandments and he would by walking in love that is in Christ fulfill the intent of them by simply walking by the spirit.

Now it's good to read about them as they are a shadow of the real substance which is Jesus. The 10 commandments are not the gospel of the grace of Christ. Read in Acts 10 and 13 we have word for word records of the gospel being preached and it has nothing to do with the law including the 10 commandments.

I know the gospel of the grace of Christ drives law-keepers crazy and it is supposed to.

The purpose of the law ( including the 10 commandments ) was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good and holy! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.

Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us.

When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed". If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!


[video=youtube;6bhZlQNCV7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhZlQNCV7o[/video]

 

[Grace777x70]

YIKES! This image is a pretty clear example of taking Scripture out of context, and neglecting disconfirming Scriptural considerations.

Please engage the following:

1. Jesus COMMANDED obedience to the law by applying Dt. 6 to us in Mt. 22:37! ( Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment in the Law and He just gave it - Jesus fulfilled the LAw and thus He has done that now for us. )

2. Jesus said our obedience to the law determines our position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19). ( Jesus wasn’t saying we should preach the keeping of the Law so that God would accept us. That only comes through putting faith in what Jesus did for us (Ephesians 1:6). We have to have a Savior. But anyone who preaches that people should break the Law is wrong also. Anyone who takes the grace God has extended to us through Jesus (John 1:14-16) and uses that liberty to preach that sin is okay isn’t preaching the same Gospel that the New Testament proclaims (Titus 2:11-12)



3. Jesus said the law is NOT abolished (Mt. 5:17). ( Jesus didn’t destroy the Law; He fulfilled its every demand (Matthew 5:18). There is a huge difference. So, the Law wasn’t destroyed or disregarded; it was fulfilled. All the demands against us were satisfied in Jesus . The Law wasn’t sin (Romans 7:7). The Law was perfect and holy (Romans 7:12), but we weren’t. Therefore, all the Law could do was condemn us ( 2 Corinthians 3:9). Once we come to the Lord and accept our salvation through faith in Christ and what He did for us, we are no longer under the Law (see my notes at Galatians 3:23-25 and 1 Timothy 1:8-9).




4. Jesus said the law is in force until AFTER heaven and earth pass away (Mt. 5:18). ( When was this time when Jesus said the Law would pass away and “all be fulfilled”? From the context of the previous verse, we can see this was what He came to do. So, this took place during His lifetime here on earth. He was not speaking of some time that is still off in the future.

5. Jesus said our righteous obedience to the law must EXCEED that of the Pharisees (Mt. 5:20). ( This is an easy one - we need the righteousness of Christ. The Pharisees, like many people today, were ignorant of achieving right standing (righteousness) with God through simply receiving His forgiveness by faith and were trying to earn salvation by their acts. No one can fulfill God’s commands (Romans 3:23) but Jesus (Hebrews 4:15). Therefore, to be righteous, we must put our faith in what He has done for us (Romans 9:31-10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 3:11-12, and 5:4-6).

6. Jesus said we LIVE by the Torah (Mt. 4:4, citing Dt. 8:3, referencing Torah). ( Jesus said we live from every word that is "proceeding" ( present tense ) from the mouth of God. I bet that Isaac was glad that Abraham listened to God after He said to go and kill his son on the altar. God then told him to stop and to not kill him. If Abraham didn't listen to God the 2nd time, Isaac would have been killed. God the Father now speaks to us through His Son and not the Law.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

7. Jesus said that religious people opposed to Torah will be CAST AWAY (Mt. 7:21-23) if not even worse (Mt. 13:41-42). ( These are unbelievers in Christ. Jesus said "I never knew you" so these are unbelievers because Jesus also said " I know my sheep" )

8. Jesus said that we should pray for God's will to be done (Mt. 6:10)...and God's will is that he be obeyed! (not opposed!) ( God's will is that we believe in what Christ has done.

John 6:40 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."


9. Jesus said we should OBEY Mosaic judgments (Mt. 23:2-3). ( Matthew 23 contains Jesus’ public exposure of the scribes and Pharisees’ motives (Matthew 23:1-7), a warning against being like them that was also addressed to the multitude (Matthew 23:8-12), and then Jesus’ rebuke and pronouncement of judgment directly to the scribes and Pharisees.)


10. Jesus said that both the greater AND lesser elements of Torah should be obeyed (Mt. 23:23). ( As I have said we are not now under the Law - this was just Jesus exposing the hypocrisy of the religious people. God’s mercy to the believer is revealed by God taking away the misery of sin’s consequences through the New Covenant of a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mercy is not something merited or earned but, as the Apostle Paul stated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (Titus 3:5, ).

11. Jesus sent forth TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus", Mt. 23:34) to properly represent His ministry. ( This is just Jesus telling the religious scribes and Pharisees that He would sent believers in Him to them and that they will persecute them. )

12. Jesus obeyed Torah, so we should too (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6). ( Yes, we will be like Jesus - after He rose from the dead.

Luke 6:40 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.

1 John 2:6 = Jesus walked depending totally on His father living in Him and we are to walk in Him the same way - completely dependent on His life in us - following the Holy Spirit in us. )


13. Jesus comes to RESTORE the covenant with Levi (Mal. 2-Mal. 3). ( I have no idea what you are referring to here but it's irrelevant as God has spoken to us in these last days in His Son who has fulfilled the law and now there is no such thing as Jews or gentiles in the New Covenant )

14. Jesus said the prophets are still in force (Mt. 5:17), and the prophets require Torah-obedience. ( Same answer for question #3 above )

15. Jesus repeatedly quoted the Psalms as Scripture, and the Psalms require Torah-obedience. ( God has now in these last days spoken to us in His Son after speaking to us in the Old Testament. David also spoke of the New Covenant too so now we live by the law of the spirit life in Christ Jesus. Paul's writings are scripture too - 2 Peter 3:15-16 )

16. So let's not quote Col. 2:14 out of context, disregarding this huge bulk of Jesus' teachings.
Remember, Col. 2:14 says the certificate of debt was canceled, not the Torah itself. ( Yes. we are dead to the law...not under it. We have nothing to do with the law now because we do not want to commit spiritual adultery with our Lord. The law of love in our hearts fulfill the intent of the law now because we are in Christ. )

17. AND, Col. 2:14 was written by Paul who took a vow to PROVE he obeyed the law (Ac. 21:23-24), and we should imitate that Pauline Torah-obedience (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9). ( The reason behind this action was totally to appease the Jews who didn’t understand the N.T. doctrine of grace. I think this was the wrong reason to do this, and it brought very bad results (Acts 21:27-32).

Paul did live holy, for holiness is the fruit of relationship with God ( Romans 6:22). But Paul didn’t keep the Law the way these legalistic Jews were speaking of, and neither should we. One of the most important precepts of the Law that was punishable by death if violated was the covenant of circumcision (Genesis 17:12-14). Paul didn’t teach his Gentile converts to do that as can be seen in Galatians 2:1-5 and his argument before the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:1-12. Peter had been told by the Lord to break the O.T. dietary laws concerning what animals to eat (Acts 10:10-16), and Paul later taught it was a doctrine of devils to observe those dietary laws in a legalistic way (1 Timothy 4:1-5).

This also answers 1 Cor 11:1 and Phil 4:9


Is anyone here willing to engage these objections I've raised? ( done and I won't respond any more to this keeping the law business - living from our new life in Christ is all a true Christian needs - as love is the fulfillment of the law - I encourage you to put your trust in Christ and in all that He has accomplished for us on the cross. He is magnificent and mighty to save.)


blessings to you all in your search for truth... ( bless you too and Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life - I encourage you to seek Him. )


BibleGuy

See my answers in green above.....

 

[BibleGuy]

Hello bibleguy,

Unfortunately this is an example of not looking at scriptures through the lens of the finished work of Christ and what He fulfilled on the cross. Everyone of these scriptures need to be looked at through Jesus and what He finished. You put those scriptures completely out of context and I don't see that refuting them will make any difference to your stance.

If you want to keep the law of Moses then you are free to but it is not Christianity and Christ has set us free from all things concerning it.

I could take every one of those scriptures and prove that the law is not for a righteous person but for the unrighteous.

We are dead to the law and going back to the law is committing spiritual adultery as Romans 7:1-6 talks about. You are married to Jesus now if you are born again from the Holy Spirit.

I'm saying that the law of love and the spirit of life in Christ Jesus fulfills the intent of the law. The Christian would never even have heard that there was the 10 commandments and he would by walking in love that is in Christ fulfill the intent of them by simply walking by the spirit.

Now it's good to read about them as they are a shadow of the real substance which is Jesus. The 10 commandments are not the gospel of the grace of Christ. Read in Acts 10 and 13 we have word for word records of the gospel being preached and it has nothing to do with the law including the 10 commandments.

I know the gospel of the grace of Christ drives law-keepers crazy and it is supposed to.

The purpose of the law ( including the 10 commandments ) was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good and holy! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.

Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us.

When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed". If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!


[video=youtube;6bhZlQNCV7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhZlQNCV7o[/video]

Hi there Grace777x70!

Thanks for engaging.

You wrote: "You put those scriptures completely out of context and I don't see that refuting them will make any difference to your stance."

My response: Please show me how I've taken Scriptures out of context...otherwise your assertion remains unsubstantiated.

You wrote: "If you want to keep the law of Moses then you are free to but it is not Christianity and Christ has set us free from all things concerning it."

My response: Why assume Mosaic law-obedience is not Christianity? You haven't substantiated this claim.

Why assume Christ "set us free" from the law, when I quoted many passages which plainly disconfirm that assertion?

You wrote: "I could take every one of those scriptures and prove that the law is not for a righteous person but for the unrighteous."

My response: So only unrighteous people should love God with all their heart, soul, and strength (Dt. 6:4-5)? Surely you are mistaken!

You wrote: "We are dead to the law and going back to the law is committing spiritual adultery as Romans 7:1-6 talks about. You are married to Jesus now if you are born again from the Holy Spirit."

My response: If that were true, then why would Paul tell us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15)? After all, SIN IS LAW-DISOBEDIENCE! Paul, therefore, told us to NOT disobey the law! Thus, Paul told us to OBEY the law! How do address this clear counter-argument to your position?

Furthermore, the Hebraic conception of spiritual adultery (Heb. "zanah", Ex. 34:15-16) refers to walking AWAY from Torah and following other gods and their evil ways. So, you've got the "spiritual adultery" concept completely backwards. Torah-opposition IS spiritual adultery, according to Scripture.

You wrote: "Read in Acts 10 and 13 we have word for word records of the gospel being preached and it has nothing to do with the law including the 10 commandments."

My response: VERY WRONG! Please note the following:

ACTS 10:2,22,35 It is good to fear God (Ac. 10:2,22,35). Fear of God is properly accompanied by obedience to God’s commands (Dt. 6:13-17; Ecc. 12:13). God’s commands are found in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3). Thus, it is good to obey the Torah. Christians should do what is good. Therefore, Christians should obey the Torah.

ACTS 10:43 It is good to believe in Yeshua and receive forgiveness of sins (Ac. 10:43). Sin is lawlessness (Torah-lessness, Is. 42:24; Hos. 8:11-12; Rom. 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). So, it is good to receive forgiveness of Torah-lessness. It must be good, therefore, to walk in obedience to the Torah. Since Christians should do what is good, it follows that Christians should walk in obedience to the Torah.

ACTS 13:2-5 Paul and Barnabus proclaimed the word of God in the Jewish synagogues in such locations as Salamis (Ac. 13:2-5). Jewish synagogues were places where the Torah of Moses was preached every Sabbath (Ac. 13:14-15; Ac. 15:21). So, Paul and Barnabus would not have been permitted to share the Gospel in the synagogues if their Gospel message were opposed to growth in obedience to the Torah. Moreover, the word of God includes YHVH’s commandments in the Torah of Moses (Mk. 7:9-13), so the preaching of Paul and Barnabus must have been in compliance with the Torah. This confirms that the Gospel is not opposed to growth in obedience to the Torah. Christians should, therefore, grow in obedience to the Torah, just as Paul and Barnabus taught, and just as the Torah-obedient synagogue-attending Jews understood.

ACTS 13:7 Paul (Saul) taught the word of God (Ac. 13:7). The word of God includes YHVH’s commandments in the Torah of Moses (Mk. 7:9-13). Christians should obey Paul’s apostolic teaching (1 Cor. 11:1-2; Eph. 2:20; 2 Th. 2:15). Thus, Christians should obey the Torah.

ACTS 13:10 Paul taught that it is bad to be an enemy of all righteousness (Ac. 13:10). Acts of righteousness (Ps. 106:3; Pr. 21:3; Is. 56:1; Tit. 3:5; Heb. 11:33; 1 Jn. 2:29; 3:7,10) are properly performed in obedience to the Torah (Mt. 5:19; 2 Ti. 3:16; Dt. 6:25; Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:16; Heb. 11:32-33; Rom. 10:8, cf. Dt. 30:11-14; Rom. 15:4). Thus, Christians should not be an enemy of the Torah, but should perform acts of righteousness in obedience to the Torah.

ACTS 13:13-15 Paul and his companions (Ac. 13:13) were accepted (in the synagogue in Pisidian Antioch, Ac. 13:14) as “brethren” (Ac. 13:15). If Paul and his companions were opposed to the Torah, then they would surely be cut off (e.g., Ex. 31:14; Lev. 7:27; Lev. 23:29; Nu. 15:30-31). Moreover, synagogues were places where the Torah of Moses was preached every Sabbath (Ac. 13:14-15; Ac. 15:21). So, the fact that Paul and his companions were accepted as “brethren” confirms that Paul and his companions were evangelizing others with a Gospel message that was not opposed to growth in obedience to the Torah. Christians should, therefore, obey Paul’s apostolic voice (1 Cor. 11:1; Eph. 2:20; Php. 4:9) and grow in obedience (not opposition) to the Torah.

ACTS 13:22 Paul esteemed David as a man after YHVH’s heart who desired to do all YHVH’s will (Ac. 13:22). YHVH desires that His word be obeyed (not rejected). The Torah is the word of YHVH (Dt. 5:27-33). Thus, David was esteemed by Paul because of his obedience to Torah (cf. 1 Ki. 15:5). Christians should imitate the behavior of those esteemed by Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9). So, just as David and Paul walked in obedience to the Torah, Christians should grow in obedience to the Torah, for it is proper to esteem and imitate such obedience.

ACTS 13:26,43 It is good to fear God (Ac. 13:26,43). Fear of God is properly accompanied by obedience to God’s commands (Dt. 6:13-17; Ecc. 12:13). God’s commands are found in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3). Thus, it is good to obey the Torah. Christians should do what is good. Therefore, Christians should obey the Torah.

ACTS 13:26 Christians are recipients of salvation (Ac. 13:26). This salvation is that which was embraced by the Jewish establishment (Jn. 4:22). The Jewish conception of salvation presumes that saved individuals seek obedience to Torah (Ps. 119:155). Thus, the proper Christian conception of salvation is such that recipients of that salvation should seek to walk in obedience to the Torah.

ACTS 13:38 Forgiveness of sins is proclaimed through Yeshua (Ac. 13:38). Sin is lawlessness (Torah-lessness, Is. 42:24; Hos. 8:11-12; Rom. 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). So, Christians proclaim forgiveness of Torah-lessness through Yeshua. It is proper, therefore, that Christians walk in obedience to the Torah.

ACTS 13:43 In Exodus 33:13 we see that the proper response to YHVH’s grace (Heb. “chen”, Gr. LXX “charis”) is to know Him and His ways. YHVH’s ways are contained in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3). Since YHVH’s grace extends to Christians (Ac. 13:43), it follows that the proper Christian response to YHVH’s grace is to know Him and His ways contained in the Torah. Thus, Christians should obey the Torah.

ACTS 13:43 Religious Jews (as well as any proselytes to Judaism) understood that the Torah should be obeyed. Indeed, such people assembled at the synagogues (Ac. 13:43) where the Torah of Moses was routinely preached (Ac. 13:14-15; Ac. 15:21). Paul and Barnabus did not discourage such obedience; rather, they encouraged both Jews and proselytes (Ac. 13:43) to continue in the faith. This confirms that faithful Torah obedience is not abolished for New Covenant participants. Christians should, thus, grow in obedience to the Torah.

ACTS 13:46 Paul preached the word of God to Jews and Gentiles (Ac. 13:46). The word of God includes YHVH’s commandments in the Torah of Moses (Mk. 7:9-13). Christians should obey Paul’s apostolic teaching (1 Cor. 11:1-2; Eph. 2:20; 2 Th. 2:15). Thus, Christians (regardless of ethnicity or previous religious background) should obey the Torah.

ACTS 13:46 Paul and Barnabus (Ac. 13:46) preached the gospel (Ac. 14:7). The gospel of Yeshua the Messiah begins with Isaiah’s prophecy regarding John the Baptist (Mk. 1:1-4; Is. 40:3) whose message is a voice in the desert which calls us (Mk. 1:3; Is. 40:3,6) to know that the word of God stands forever (Is. 40:8). The word of God includes the Torah (Dt. 5:27-33). Thus, the gospel of Yeshua begins with the fact that the Torah continues to remain in force. Since the gospel of Yeshua is a gospel of Torah obedience, Christians should obey the Torah, just as Paul and Barnabus preached.

ACTS 13:47 Christians are recipients of salvation (Ac. 13:47). This salvation is that which was embraced by the Jewish establishment (Jn. 4:22). The Jewish conception of salvation presumes that saved individuals seek obedience to Torah (Ps. 119:155). Thus, the proper Christian conception of salvation is such that recipients of that salvation should seek to walk in obedience to the Torah.


You wrote: "But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all..."

My response: No. The law details how our works can be works of righteousness (Dt. 6:25), and Jesus COMMANDED we obey this passage of Scripture (see how Mt. 22:37 applies Dt. 6 to us!) See, also, how Jesus expects our works of Torah-obedient righteousness to be GREATER than that of the Pharisees (Mt. 5:20). That's why John can say that he who DOES (Gr. "poieo", 1 Jn. 3:7) what is right is righteous. That's why we need to DO works of righteousness (not works of opposition to God's law!). That's why Jesus sent TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus", Mt. 23:34), not TORAH-ENEMIES, to properly represent His ministry.

You wrote: "Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross."

My response: Yes....canceled the CERTIFICATE OF DEBT....not the law itself. Thus the law is still in force. Remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant! (Jer. 31:33)

Ok....moving on to your next comments in the following post!

blessings...
BibleGuy

PS Sorry for the green color....I haven't quite figured this all out yet!

 

[JaumeJ]

kThe curse of the law, death, was nailed to the cross...........we no longer need fear any of the law.

This is by no means by any stretch saying we are not to honor our parents, we are to ssteal, we are t bear false witness.........etc.

Learn how the law is used lawfully from Jesus Christ. No one else teaches as well.

 

[BibleGuy]

Hello again,

You wrote: "Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment in the Law and He just gave it - Jesus fulfilled the LAw and thus He has done that now for us."

My response: Wow! So we do NOT need to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength? Because Jesus already did that for us?

YIKES! That sounds like a pretty clear case of lawlessness.

Sounds like you're saying we do NOT need to love God because Jesus already love God for us.

OUCH! I'm thinking you need to revisit that response.

Or, if you agree that we still should love God the way Jesus told us to love God, then you must concede that we should love God in accordance with Dt. 6 (which Jesus applied to us in Mt. 22:37).

Right?

Do you see the problem here?

You wrote: "But anyone who preaches that people should break the Law is wrong also."

My response: So now you agree we should NOT break the law? But then that means we should OBEY the law! But I though you just said we do NOT need to obey the law, because Jesus already did that for us!

Yikes! I've found another contradiction.

You wrote: "Anyone who takes the grace God has extended to us through Jesus (John 1:14-16) and uses that liberty to preach that sin is okay isn’t preaching the same Gospel that the New Testament proclaims (Titus 2:11-12)."

My response: But SIN IS TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE! (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4; Is. 42:24). So now you agree that sin is NOT okay, which means that it is NOT okay for us to disobey the law, which means we should obey the law! But I thought you earlier said that since Jesus fulfilled the law for us, it's not the case that we should obey the law??

Hmmm....that's another inconsistency.

You wrote: "we are no longer under the Law..."

My response: Yes...but in the same breath, Paul says we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means we should not disobey the law, which means we should OBEY the law, right?

You wrote: "When was this time when Jesus said the Law would pass away and “all be fulfilled”? From the context of the previous verse, we can see this was what He came to do. So, this took place during His lifetime here on earth. He was not speaking of some time that is still off in the future."

My response: No! Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law is not yet fully fulfilled in all its details. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law. But, Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law has not yet passed away, because it has not yet even been fulfilled yet! It follows that the law is STILL in force. Right?

You wrote: "This is an easy one - we need the righteousness of Christ. The Pharisees, like many people today, were ignorant of achieving right standing (righteousness) with God through simply receiving His forgiveness by faith and were trying to earn salvation by their acts. No one can fulfill God’s commands (Romans 3:23) but Jesus (Hebrews 4:15). Therefore, to be righteous, we must put our faith in what He has done for us (Romans 9:31-10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 3:11-12, and 5:4-6)."

My response: Yes, Christ is our righteousness. But that's not an excuse to eat pork (disobeying God's law!). Remember, even YOU agreed that we should NOT sin. And what is sin? Torah-disobedience (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). Thus, we should NOT disobey God's law, even though Christ is already our righteousness by faith. Right?

You wrote: "God the Father now speaks to us through His Son and not the Law."

My response: The Son tells us to obey the law! If He told us to disobey the law, then HE would be a sinner by telling us to sin by violating the law. And you already agreed that we should NOT sin. Right?

Regarding Mt. 7:21-23 and Mt. 13:41-42, you wrote: "These are unbelievers in Christ. Jesus said "I never knew you" so these are unbelievers because Jesus also said " I know my sheep" )"

My response: But if unbelievers are BAD because they exemplify lawlessness....then we Christians should be GOOD and NOT exemplify lawlessness. Thus, Christians should obey Torah! Right?

You wrote: "God's will is that we believe in what Christ has done."

My response: What has Christ done? Christ has modeled and taught Torah-obedience, and he expects us to do likewise (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6). Christ has inaugurated the New Covenant in which Torah is written upon our hearts so that we obey it (not oppose it!). See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33.

You wrote: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

My response: If you believe in Jesus, then you follow Him and His ways and become His disciple. What were Jesus' ways? Torah! Jesus NEVER disobeyed Torah. Rather, he sent Torah-teachers to represent His ministry (Mt. 23:34).

You wrote: "Matthew 23 contains Jesus’ public exposure of the scribes and Pharisees’ motives (Matthew 23:1-7), a warning against being like them that was also addressed to the multitude (Matthew 23:8-12), and then Jesus’ rebuke and pronouncement of judgment directly to the scribes and Pharisees."

My response: You missed the point. Jesus AFFIRMED that Mosaic judgments should be obeyed (Mt. 23:2-3). It follows that Christians should NOT oppose Torah, but should obey it.

You wrote: "As I have said we are not now under the Law - this was just Jesus exposing the hypocrisy of the religious people. God’s mercy to the believer is revealed by God taking away the misery of sin’s consequences through the New Covenant of a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mercy is not something merited or earned but, as the Apostle Paul stated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (Titus 3:5, )."

My response: So since we are "not now under the Law"....well, we can just ignore everything Jesus taught before the crucifixion? Of course not! Rather, Jesus said we should teach EVERYTHING from his PRE-CRUCIFIXION teachings to disciples throughout the world (Mt. 28:20). Thus, Jesus taught OBEDIENCE to greater and lesser elements of Torah (Mt. 23:23), and we Christians should now likewise teach Torah-obedience to all disciples of Jesus globally.

And you bring up the New Covenant...but remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant! See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33. So, the New Covenant affirms our need to OBEY Torah, not to pretend it no longer applies.

You wrote: "This is just Jesus telling the religious scribes and Pharisees that He would sent believers in Him to them and that they will persecute them. )"

My response: No! This is not Jesus sending out any old run-of-the-mill believers, but He is sending out TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus") to properly present the Messiah's Torah-upholding Torah-teaching ministry! Why do you disregard the meaning of "grammateus" here? Isn't it because it does not fit into your preconceived theology? Just asking...

You wrote: "Yes, we will be like Jesus - after He rose from the dead."

My response: What? Lk. 6:40 confirms that Jesus' disciples should obey Torah, just as Jesus also obeyed Torah. Likewise, 1 Jn. 2:6 also confirms that Christians should obey Torah, in imitation of Jesus' Torah-obedient walk. Right?

You wrote: "1 John 2:6 = Jesus walked depending totally on His father living in Him and we are to walk in Him the same way - completely dependent on His life in us - following the Holy Spirit in us. )"

My response: And this walk was a TORAH-OBEDIENT walk! Thus, we should likewise totally depend on our Father living in us, following the Holy Spirit, who leads us to obey the Torah! Remember, the Spirit testifies that Torah is to be written upon our hearts (Heb. 10:15-16), not opposed by us. Right?

You wrote: "I have no idea what you are referring to here but it's irrelevant as God has spoken to us in these last days in His Son who has fulfilled the law and now there is no such thing as Jews or gentiles in the New Covenant."

My response: The Messiah comes (Mal. 3:1) to refine and purify a restored Levitical preisthood (Mal. 3:3) to function as in former years (Mal. 3:4). This will fulfill the yet-unfulfilled prophecy in Jer. 33:15-18. Do you see it? Jer. 33:15-18 GUARANTEES future restoration of Levitical Torah, just as Moses also prophesied in Dt. 30:8. So Torah can not possibly be abolished now....because it will (in the future) be FULLY obeyed again, as in former years. THAT is what the Messiah comes to establish, according to these prophecies. Do you oppose these prophecies?

You wrote: "God has now in these last days spoken to us in His Son after speaking to us in the Old Testament. David also spoke of the New Covenant too so now we live by the law of the spirit life in Christ Jesus. Paul's writings are scripture too - 2 Peter 3:15-16 )"

My response: So you now oppose the Psalms (which, by the way, uphold Torah-obedience)?

Paul would rebuke you flatly. I must also admonish you. Read Col. 3:16 where Paul tells me to admonish you with the Psalms! Therefore, I admonish you to obey the Psalms which, by the way, affirm our need to obey Torah! (Just read Psalm 1, Psalm 19, Psalm 119, etc.)

You wrote: "...We have nothing to do with the law now because we do not want to commit spiritual adultery with our Lord. The law of love in our hearts fulfill the intent of the law now because we are in Christ."

My response: Really? So you have NOTHING to do with the law? So we can disobey Dt. 6:4-5? Disobey Lev. 19:18? Disobey Lev. 18? After all, we are NOT under the law, right? See the problem here?

You wrote: "The reason behind this action was totally to appease the Jews who didn’t understand the N.T. doctrine of grace. I think this was the wrong reason to do this, and it brought very bad results (Acts 21:27-32)."

My response: YIKES! So now you are free to oppose Paul's actions and teachings and reasoning? Wow...Paul was an apostle, whose apostolic authority functions as a contributing foundation for the church (Eph. 2:20), and you oppose this apostolic authority, claiming Paul took a vow for wrong reasons? Ouch...we REALLY need to modify your answer here. Scripture has strong warnings for those who mistreat Paul's views (2 Pe. 3:16).

Furthermore, Paul says Dt. 30:14 IS the word of faith he preached (Rom. 10:8 cites Dt. 30:14 favorably), thereby confirming that faithful Torah-obedience is the word of faith Paul preached. So, it's perfectly consistent for Paul to take a vow in Ac. 21 to prove that Paul walked in obedience to Torah.

Remember, Paul told us to keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply. Right?

You wrote: "But Paul didn’t keep the Law the way these legalistic Jews were speaking of, and neither should we."

My response: Right. We should not keep the law in a "legalistic" way. Rather, we should obey the law in faith, just as Paul taught.

You wrote: "Paul didn’t teach his Gentile converts to do that [be circumcised] as can be seen in Galatians 2:1-5 and his argument before the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:1-12.

My response: Of course Paul did not teach Gentile converts to become circumcised. Why? Because the Torah does NOT require that adult male Gentile converts be circumcised! Nevertheless, Paul DID teach Gentile converts to obey the law. Remember? He told the Romans to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means NOT disobey the law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7), which means OBEY the law! There were surely Gentile converts amidst the Roman Christian congregation. Thus, Paul taught these Gentiles converts to OBEY Torah. Right?

You wrote: "Peter had been told by the Lord to break the O.T. dietary laws concerning what animals to eat (Acts 10:10-16)."

My response: Careful! Visions/dreams are routinely FIGURATIVE, not literal. Joseph gave a FIGURATIVE interpretation, not a literal interpretation. Daniel gave a figurative interpretation, not literal. Moreover, the MEANING of the vision in Ac. 10 was not that we can break the dietary laws...rather, it was that believing Gentiles were ALSO to be included in the family of faith (Ac. 10:28). It's about the DUDE, not the FOOD.

That's why Peter CONTINUES to apply Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe. 1:15-16.

Remember you said we should not sin? Well, then let's stop sinning by disobeying God's dietary laws (Lev. 11).

God will be very unhappy with pork-eaters, even in the future (Is. 66:17). So let's stop pretending that God doesn't care about dietary laws any more.

You wrote: "Paul later taught it was a doctrine of devils to observe those dietary laws in a legalistic way (1 Timothy 4:1-5)."

My response: Rather, the word of God and prayer function to consecrate our food (1 Ti. 4:1-5; Lev. 11; Dt. 14). The Torah is the word of God (Dt. 5:27-33; Mk. 7:9-13). So, the Torah and prayer consecrate our food. Christians should, therefore, obey the Torah (including the Torah dietary instructions in Lev. 11 and Dt. 14) so that their food may be properly and prayerfully consecrated.

Sure, do not obey any law in a "legalistic" way. But you should still obey the law in faith!

You wrote: "This also answers 1 Cor 11:1 and Phil 4:9."

My response: No. Took a vow to prove Torah-obedience (Ac. 21) and clearly affirmed that he embraced (not opposed) Torah (Ac. 24:14). We should likewise imitate that Torah-obedience (1 Cor. 11:1, Php. 4:9). So, the force of my argument, here, remains.

You wrote: "Done and I won't respond any more to this keeping the law business..."

My response: Very sad to hear that...I was hoping we could learn from one another...but apparently you will now not answer the several dozen objections I've raised against your latest statement of your position.

best regards...
BibleGuy

 

[BibleGuy]

Hello again,

You wrote: "Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment in the Law and He just gave it - Jesus fulfilled the LAw and thus He has done that now for us."

My response: Wow! So we do NOT need to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength? Because Jesus already did that for us?

YIKES! That sounds like a pretty clear case of lawlessness.

Sounds like you're saying we do NOT need to love God because Jesus already love God for us.

OUCH! I'm thinking you need to revisit that response.

Or, if you agree that we still should love God the way Jesus told us to love God, then you must concede that we should love God in accordance with Dt. 6 (which Jesus applied to us in Mt. 22:37).

Right?

Do you see the problem here?

You wrote: "But anyone who preaches that people should break the Law is wrong also."

My response: So now you agree we should NOT break the law? But then that means we should OBEY the law! But I though you just said we do NOT need to obey the law, because Jesus already did that for us!

Yikes! I've found another contradiction.

You wrote: "Anyone who takes the grace God has extended to us through Jesus (John 1:14-16) and uses that liberty to preach that sin is okay isn’t preaching the same Gospel that the New Testament proclaims (Titus 2:11-12)."

My response: But SIN IS TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE! (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4; Is. 42:24). So now you agree that sin is NOT okay, which means that it is NOT okay for us to disobey the law, which means we should obey the law! But I thought you earlier said that since Jesus fulfilled the law for us, it's not the case that we should obey the law??

Hmmm....that's another inconsistency.

You wrote: "we are no longer under the Law..."

My response: Yes...but in the same breath, Paul says we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means we should not disobey the law, which means we should OBEY the law, right?

You wrote: "When was this time when Jesus said the Law would pass away and “all be fulfilled”? From the context of the previous verse, we can see this was what He came to do. So, this took place during His lifetime here on earth. He was not speaking of some time that is still off in the future."

My response: No! Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law is not yet fully fulfilled in all its details. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law. But, Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law has not yet passed away, because it has not yet even been fulfilled yet! It follows that the law is STILL in force. Right?

You wrote: "This is an easy one - we need the righteousness of Christ. The Pharisees, like many people today, were ignorant of achieving right standing (righteousness) with God through simply receiving His forgiveness by faith and were trying to earn salvation by their acts. No one can fulfill God’s commands (Romans 3:23) but Jesus (Hebrews 4:15). Therefore, to be righteous, we must put our faith in what He has done for us (Romans 9:31-10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 3:11-12, and 5:4-6)."

My response: Yes, Christ is our righteousness. But that's not an excuse to eat pork (disobeying God's law!). Remember, even YOU agreed that we should NOT sin. And what is sin? Torah-disobedience (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). Thus, we should NOT disobey God's law, even though Christ is already our righteousness by faith. Right?

You wrote: "God the Father now speaks to us through His Son and not the Law."

My response: The Son tells us to obey the law! If He told us to disobey the law, then HE would be a sinner by telling us to sin by violating the law. And you already agreed that we should NOT sin. Right?

Regarding Mt. 7:21-23 and Mt. 13:41-42, you wrote: "These are unbelievers in Christ. Jesus said "I never knew you" so these are unbelievers because Jesus also said " I know my sheep" )"

My response: But if unbelievers are BAD because they exemplify lawlessness....then we Christians should be GOOD and NOT exemplify lawlessness. Thus, Christians should obey Torah! Right?

You wrote: "God's will is that we believe in what Christ has done."

My response: What has Christ done? Christ has modeled and taught Torah-obedience, and he expects us to do likewise (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6). Christ has inaugurated the New Covenant in which Torah is written upon our hearts so that we obey it (not oppose it!). See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33.

You wrote: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

My response: If you believe in Jesus, then you follow Him and His ways and become His disciple. What were Jesus' ways? Torah! Jesus NEVER disobeyed Torah. Rather, he sent Torah-teachers to represent His ministry (Mt. 23:34).

You wrote: "Matthew 23 contains Jesus’ public exposure of the scribes and Pharisees’ motives (Matthew 23:1-7), a warning against being like them that was also addressed to the multitude (Matthew 23:8-12), and then Jesus’ rebuke and pronouncement of judgment directly to the scribes and Pharisees."

My response: You missed the point. Jesus AFFIRMED that Mosaic judgments should be obeyed (Mt. 23:2-3). It follows that Christians should NOT oppose Torah, but should obey it.

You wrote: "As I have said we are not now under the Law - this was just Jesus exposing the hypocrisy of the religious people. God’s mercy to the believer is revealed by God taking away the misery of sin’s consequences through the New Covenant of a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mercy is not something merited or earned but, as the Apostle Paul stated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (Titus 3:5, )."

My response: So since we are "not now under the Law"....well, we can just ignore everything Jesus taught before the crucifixion? Of course not! Rather, Jesus said we should teach EVERYTHING from his PRE-CRUCIFIXION teachings to disciples throughout the world (Mt. 28:20). Thus, Jesus taught OBEDIENCE to greater and lesser elements of Torah (Mt. 23:23), and we Christians should now likewise teach Torah-obedience to all disciples of Jesus globally.

And you bring up the New Covenant...but remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant! See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33. So, the New Covenant affirms our need to OBEY Torah, not to pretend it no longer applies.

You wrote: "This is just Jesus telling the religious scribes and Pharisees that He would sent believers in Him to them and that they will persecute them. )"

My response: No! This is not Jesus sending out any old run-of-the-mill believers, but He is sending out TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus") to properly present the Messiah's Torah-upholding Torah-teaching ministry! Why do you disregard the meaning of "grammateus" here? Isn't it because it does not fit into your preconceived theology? Just asking...

You wrote: "Yes, we will be like Jesus - after He rose from the dead."

My response: What? Lk. 6:40 confirms that Jesus' disciples should obey Torah, just as Jesus also obeyed Torah. Likewise, 1 Jn. 2:6 also confirms that Christians should obey Torah, in imitation of Jesus' Torah-obedient walk. Right?

You wrote: "1 John 2:6 = Jesus walked depending totally on His father living in Him and we are to walk in Him the same way - completely dependent on His life in us - following the Holy Spirit in us. )"

My response: And this walk was a TORAH-OBEDIENT walk! Thus, we should likewise totally depend on our Father living in us, following the Holy Spirit, who leads us to obey the Torah! Remember, the Spirit testifies that Torah is to be written upon our hearts (Heb. 10:15-16), not opposed by us. Right?

You wrote: "I have no idea what you are referring to here but it's irrelevant as God has spoken to us in these last days in His Son who has fulfilled the law and now there is no such thing as Jews or gentiles in the New Covenant."

My response: The Messiah comes (Mal. 3:1) to refine and purify a restored Levitical preisthood (Mal. 3:3) to function as in former years (Mal. 3:4). This will fulfill the yet-unfulfilled prophecy in Jer. 33:15-18. Do you see it? Jer. 33:15-18 GUARANTEES future restoration of Levitical Torah, just as Moses also prophesied in Dt. 30:8. So Torah can not possibly be abolished now....because it will (in the future) be FULLY obeyed again, as in former years. THAT is what the Messiah comes to establish, according to these prophecies. Do you oppose these prophecies?

You wrote: "God has now in these last days spoken to us in His Son after speaking to us in the Old Testament. David also spoke of the New Covenant too so now we live by the law of the spirit life in Christ Jesus. Paul's writings are scripture too - 2 Peter 3:15-16 )"

My response: So you now oppose the Psalms (which, by the way, uphold Torah-obedience)?

Paul would rebuke you flatly. I must also admonish you. Read Col. 3:16 where Paul tells me to admonish you with the Psalms! Therefore, I admonish you to obey the Psalms which, by the way, affirm our need to obey Torah! (Just read Psalm 1, Psalm 19, Psalm 119, etc.)

You wrote: "...We have nothing to do with the law now because we do not want to commit spiritual adultery with our Lord. The law of love in our hearts fulfill the intent of the law now because we are in Christ."

My response: Really? So you have NOTHING to do with the law? So we can disobey Dt. 6:4-5? Disobey Lev. 19:18? Disobey Lev. 18? After all, we are NOT under the law, right? See the problem here?

You wrote: "The reason behind this action was totally to appease the Jews who didn’t understand the N.T. doctrine of grace. I think this was the wrong reason to do this, and it brought very bad results (Acts 21:27-32)."

My response: YIKES! So now you are free to oppose Paul's actions and teachings and reasoning? Wow...Paul was an apostle, whose apostolic authority functions as a contributing foundation for the church (Eph. 2:20), and you oppose this apostolic authority, claiming Paul took a vow for wrong reasons? Ouch...we REALLY need to modify your answer here. Scripture has strong warnings for those who mistreat Paul's views (2 Pe. 3:16).

Furthermore, Paul says Dt. 30:14 IS the word of faith he preached (Rom. 10:8 cites Dt. 30:14 favorably), thereby confirming that faithful Torah-obedience is the word of faith Paul preached. So, it's perfectly consistent for Paul to take a vow in Ac. 21 to prove that Paul walked in obedience to Torah.

Remember, Paul told us to keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply. Right?

You wrote: "But Paul didn’t keep the Law the way these legalistic Jews were speaking of, and neither should we."

My response: Right. We should not keep the law in a "legalistic" way. Rather, we should obey the law in faith, just as Paul taught.

You wrote: "Paul didn’t teach his Gentile converts to do that [be circumcised] as can be seen in Galatians 2:1-5 and his argument before the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:1-12.

My response: Of course Paul did not teach Gentile converts to become circumcised. Why? Because the Torah does NOT require that adult male Gentile converts be circumcised! Nevertheless, Paul DID teach Gentile converts to obey the law. Remember? He told the Romans to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means NOT disobey the law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7), which means OBEY the law! There were surely Gentile converts amidst the Roman Christian congregation. Thus, Paul taught these Gentiles converts to OBEY Torah. Right?

You wrote: "Peter had been told by the Lord to break the O.T. dietary laws concerning what animals to eat (Acts 10:10-16)."

My response: Careful! Visions/dreams are routinely FIGURATIVE, not literal. Joseph gave a FIGURATIVE interpretation, not a literal interpretation. Daniel gave a figurative interpretation, not literal. Moreover, the MEANING of the vision in Ac. 10 was not that we can break the dietary laws...rather, it was that believing Gentiles were ALSO to be included in the family of faith (Ac. 10:28). It's about the DUDE, not the FOOD.

That's why Peter CONTINUES to apply Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe. 1:15-16.

Remember you said we should not sin? Well, then let's stop sinning by disobeying God's dietary laws (Lev. 11).

God will be very unhappy with pork-eaters, even in the future (Is. 66:17). So let's stop pretending that God doesn't care about dietary laws any more.

You wrote: "Paul later taught it was a doctrine of devils to observe those dietary laws in a legalistic way (1 Timothy 4:1-5)."

My response: Rather, the word of God and prayer function to consecrate our food (1 Ti. 4:1-5; Lev. 11; Dt. 14). The Torah is the word of God (Dt. 5:27-33; Mk. 7:9-13). So, the Torah and prayer consecrate our food. Christians should, therefore, obey the Torah (including the Torah dietary instructions in Lev. 11 and Dt. 14) so that their food may be properly and prayerfully consecrated.

Sure, do not obey any law in a "legalistic" way. But you should still obey the law in faith!

You wrote: "This also answers 1 Cor 11:1 and Phil 4:9."

My response: No. Paul took a vow to prove Torah-obedience (Ac. 21) and clearly affirmed that he embraced (not opposed) Torah (Ac. 24:14). We should likewise imitate that Torah-obedience (1 Cor. 11:1, Php. 4:9). So, the force of my argument, here, remains.

You wrote: "Done and I won't respond any more to this keeping the law business..."

My response: Very sad to hear that...I was hoping we could learn from one another...but apparently you will now not answer the several dozen objections I've raised against your latest statement of your position.

best regards...
BibleGuy



(with one correction added...)

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello again,

You wrote: "Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment in the Law and He just gave it - Jesus fulfilled the LAw and thus He has done that now for us."

My response: Wow! So we do NOT need to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength? Because Jesus already did that for us?

YIKES! That sounds like a pretty clear case of lawlessness.

Sounds like you're saying we do NOT need to love God because Jesus already love God for us.

OUCH! I'm thinking you need to revisit that response.

Or, if you agree that we still should love God the way Jesus told us to love God, then you must concede that we should love God in accordance with Dt. 6 (which Jesus applied to us in Mt. 22:37).

Right?

Do you see the problem here?

You wrote: "But anyone who preaches that people should break the Law is wrong also."

My response: So now you agree we should NOT break the law? But then that means we should OBEY the law! But I though you just said we do NOT need to obey the law, because Jesus already did that for us!

Yikes! I've found another contradiction.

You wrote: "Anyone who takes the grace God has extended to us through Jesus (John 1:14-16) and uses that liberty to preach that sin is okay isn’t preaching the same Gospel that the New Testament proclaims (Titus 2:11-12)."

My response: But SIN IS TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE! (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4; Is. 42:24). So now you agree that sin is NOT okay, which means that it is NOT okay for us to disobey the law, which means we should obey the law! But I thought you earlier said that since Jesus fulfilled the law for us, it's not the case that we should obey the law??

Hmmm....that's another inconsistency.

You wrote: "we are no longer under the Law..."

My response: Yes...but in the same breath, Paul says we should NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means we should not disobey the law, which means we should OBEY the law, right?

You wrote: "When was this time when Jesus said the Law would pass away and “all be fulfilled”? From the context of the previous verse, we can see this was what He came to do. So, this took place during His lifetime here on earth. He was not speaking of some time that is still off in the future."

My response: No! Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law is not yet fully fulfilled in all its details. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law. But, Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet fulfilled. Therefore, the law has not yet passed away, because it has not yet even been fulfilled yet! It follows that the law is STILL in force. Right?

You wrote: "This is an easy one - we need the righteousness of Christ. The Pharisees, like many people today, were ignorant of achieving right standing (righteousness) with God through simply receiving His forgiveness by faith and were trying to earn salvation by their acts. No one can fulfill God’s commands (Romans 3:23) but Jesus (Hebrews 4:15). Therefore, to be righteous, we must put our faith in what He has done for us (Romans 9:31-10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 3:11-12, and 5:4-6)."

My response: Yes, Christ is our righteousness. But that's not an excuse to eat pork (disobeying God's law!). Remember, even YOU agreed that we should NOT sin. And what is sin? Torah-disobedience (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4). Thus, we should NOT disobey God's law, even though Christ is already our righteousness by faith. Right?

You wrote: "God the Father now speaks to us through His Son and not the Law."

My response: The Son tells us to obey the law! If He told us to disobey the law, then HE would be a sinner by telling us to sin by violating the law. And you already agreed that we should NOT sin. Right?

Regarding Mt. 7:21-23 and Mt. 13:41-42, you wrote: "These are unbelievers in Christ. Jesus said "I never knew you" so these are unbelievers because Jesus also said " I know my sheep" )"

My response: But if unbelievers are BAD because they exemplify lawlessness....then we Christians should be GOOD and NOT exemplify lawlessness. Thus, Christians should obey Torah! Right?

You wrote: "God's will is that we believe in what Christ has done."

My response: What has Christ done? Christ has modeled and taught Torah-obedience, and he expects us to do likewise (Lk. 6:40; 1 Jn. 2:6). Christ has inaugurated the New Covenant in which Torah is written upon our hearts so that we obey it (not oppose it!). See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33.

You wrote: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

My response: If you believe in Jesus, then you follow Him and His ways and become His disciple. What were Jesus' ways? Torah! Jesus NEVER disobeyed Torah. Rather, he sent Torah-teachers to represent His ministry (Mt. 23:34).

You wrote: "Matthew 23 contains Jesus’ public exposure of the scribes and Pharisees’ motives (Matthew 23:1-7), a warning against being like them that was also addressed to the multitude (Matthew 23:8-12), and then Jesus’ rebuke and pronouncement of judgment directly to the scribes and Pharisees."

My response: You missed the point. Jesus AFFIRMED that Mosaic judgments should be obeyed (Mt. 23:2-3). It follows that Christians should NOT oppose Torah, but should obey it.

You wrote: "As I have said we are not now under the Law - this was just Jesus exposing the hypocrisy of the religious people. God’s mercy to the believer is revealed by God taking away the misery of sin’s consequences through the New Covenant of a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Mercy is not something merited or earned but, as the Apostle Paul stated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (Titus 3:5, )."

My response: So since we are "not now under the Law"....well, we can just ignore everything Jesus taught before the crucifixion? Of course not! Rather, Jesus said we should teach EVERYTHING from his PRE-CRUCIFIXION teachings to disciples throughout the world (Mt. 28:20). Thus, Jesus taught OBEDIENCE to greater and lesser elements of Torah (Mt. 23:23), and we Christians should now likewise teach Torah-obedience to all disciples of Jesus globally.

And you bring up the New Covenant...but remember, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant! See "Torah" in Jer. 31:33. So, the New Covenant affirms our need to OBEY Torah, not to pretend it no longer applies.

You wrote: "This is just Jesus telling the religious scribes and Pharisees that He would sent believers in Him to them and that they will persecute them. )"

My response: No! This is not Jesus sending out any old run-of-the-mill believers, but He is sending out TORAH-TEACHERS (Gr. "grammateus") to properly present the Messiah's Torah-upholding Torah-teaching ministry! Why do you disregard the meaning of "grammateus" here? Isn't it because it does not fit into your preconceived theology? Just asking...

You wrote: "Yes, we will be like Jesus - after He rose from the dead."

My response: What? Lk. 6:40 confirms that Jesus' disciples should obey Torah, just as Jesus also obeyed Torah. Likewise, 1 Jn. 2:6 also confirms that Christians should obey Torah, in imitation of Jesus' Torah-obedient walk. Right?

You wrote: "1 John 2:6 = Jesus walked depending totally on His father living in Him and we are to walk in Him the same way - completely dependent on His life in us - following the Holy Spirit in us. )"

My response: And this walk was a TORAH-OBEDIENT walk! Thus, we should likewise totally depend on our Father living in us, following the Holy Spirit, who leads us to obey the Torah! Remember, the Spirit testifies that Torah is to be written upon our hearts (Heb. 10:15-16), not opposed by us. Right?

You wrote: "I have no idea what you are referring to here but it's irrelevant as God has spoken to us in these last days in His Son who has fulfilled the law and now there is no such thing as Jews or gentiles in the New Covenant."

My response: The Messiah comes (Mal. 3:1) to refine and purify a restored Levitical preisthood (Mal. 3:3) to function as in former years (Mal. 3:4). This will fulfill the yet-unfulfilled prophecy in Jer. 33:15-18. Do you see it? Jer. 33:15-18 GUARANTEES future restoration of Levitical Torah, just as Moses also prophesied in Dt. 30:8. So Torah can not possibly be abolished now....because it will (in the future) be FULLY obeyed again, as in former years. THAT is what the Messiah comes to establish, according to these prophecies. Do you oppose these prophecies?

You wrote: "God has now in these last days spoken to us in His Son after speaking to us in the Old Testament. David also spoke of the New Covenant too so now we live by the law of the spirit life in Christ Jesus. Paul's writings are scripture too - 2 Peter 3:15-16 )"

My response: So you now oppose the Psalms (which, by the way, uphold Torah-obedience)?

Paul would rebuke you flatly. I must also admonish you. Read Col. 3:16 where Paul tells me to admonish you with the Psalms! Therefore, I admonish you to obey the Psalms which, by the way, affirm our need to obey Torah! (Just read Psalm 1, Psalm 19, Psalm 119, etc.)

You wrote: "...We have nothing to do with the law now because we do not want to commit spiritual adultery with our Lord. The law of love in our hearts fulfill the intent of the law now because we are in Christ."

My response: Really? So you have NOTHING to do with the law? So we can disobey Dt. 6:4-5? Disobey Lev. 19:18? Disobey Lev. 18? After all, we are NOT under the law, right? See the problem here?

You wrote: "The reason behind this action was totally to appease the Jews who didn’t understand the N.T. doctrine of grace. I think this was the wrong reason to do this, and it brought very bad results (Acts 21:27-32)."

My response: YIKES! So now you are free to oppose Paul's actions and teachings and reasoning? Wow...Paul was an apostle, whose apostolic authority functions as a contributing foundation for the church (Eph. 2:20), and you oppose this apostolic authority, claiming Paul took a vow for wrong reasons? Ouch...we REALLY need to modify your answer here. Scripture has strong warnings for those who mistreat Paul's views (2 Pe. 3:16).

Furthermore, Paul says Dt. 30:14 IS the word of faith he preached (Rom. 10:8 cites Dt. 30:14 favorably), thereby confirming that faithful Torah-obedience is the word of faith Paul preached. So, it's perfectly consistent for Paul to take a vow in Ac. 21 to prove that Paul walked in obedience to Torah.

Remember, Paul told us to keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not ignore them or pretend they no longer apply. Right?

You wrote: "But Paul didn’t keep the Law the way these legalistic Jews were speaking of, and neither should we."

My response: Right. We should not keep the law in a "legalistic" way. Rather, we should obey the law in faith, just as Paul taught.

You wrote: "Paul didn’t teach his Gentile converts to do that [be circumcised] as can be seen in Galatians 2:1-5 and his argument before the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:1-12.

My response: Of course Paul did not teach Gentile converts to become circumcised. Why? Because the Torah does NOT require that adult male Gentile converts be circumcised! Nevertheless, Paul DID teach Gentile converts to obey the law. Remember? He told the Romans to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means NOT disobey the law (Rom. 3:20; 7:7), which means OBEY the law! There were surely Gentile converts amidst the Roman Christian congregation. Thus, Paul taught these Gentiles converts to OBEY Torah. Right?

You wrote: "Peter had been told by the Lord to break the O.T. dietary laws concerning what animals to eat (Acts 10:10-16)."

My response: Careful! Visions/dreams are routinely FIGURATIVE, not literal. Joseph gave a FIGURATIVE interpretation, not a literal interpretation. Daniel gave a figurative interpretation, not literal. Moreover, the MEANING of the vision in Ac. 10 was not that we can break the dietary laws...rather, it was that believing Gentiles were ALSO to be included in the family of faith (Ac. 10:28). It's about the DUDE, not the FOOD.

That's why Peter CONTINUES to apply Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe. 1:15-16.

Remember you said we should not sin? Well, then let's stop sinning by disobeying God's dietary laws (Lev. 11).

God will be very unhappy with pork-eaters, even in the future (Is. 66:17). So let's stop pretending that God doesn't care about dietary laws any more.

You wrote: "Paul later taught it was a doctrine of devils to observe those dietary laws in a legalistic way (1 Timothy 4:1-5)."

My response: Rather, the word of God and prayer function to consecrate our food (1 Ti. 4:1-5; Lev. 11; Dt. 14). The Torah is the word of God (Dt. 5:27-33; Mk. 7:9-13). So, the Torah and prayer consecrate our food. Christians should, therefore, obey the Torah (including the Torah dietary instructions in Lev. 11 and Dt. 14) so that their food may be properly and prayerfully consecrated.

Sure, do not obey any law in a "legalistic" way. But you should still obey the law in faith!

You wrote: "This also answers 1 Cor 11:1 and Phil 4:9."

My response: No. Paul took a vow to prove Torah-obedience (Ac. 21) and clearly affirmed that he embraced (not opposed) Torah (Ac. 24:14). We should likewise imitate that Torah-obedience (1 Cor. 11:1, Php. 4:9). So, the force of my argument, here, remains.

You wrote: "Done and I won't respond any more to this keeping the law business..."

My response: Very sad to hear that...I was hoping we could learn from one another...but apparently you will now not answer the several dozen objections I've raised against your latest statement of your position.

best regards...
BibleGuy



(with one correction added...)

Hello BibleGuy,

For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law--I stopped trying to meet all its requirements--so that I might live for God.

Anyone who attempts to enter the kingdom of God through the works of the law will never enter in. Just because we are no longer under the law, it does not mean that we have Carte Blanche to sin.

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

Paul spoke about why Israel did not obtain the righteousness that they so eagerly sought after:

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone."

Our salvation is obtained by trusting in Christ who alone provided salvation by the shedding of His blood. Anyone who brings in other requirements along side of what Jesus already accomplished is basically saying that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. I walk in Christ, but I have not put myself under the law to keep. I don't live according to the sinful nature because I am following Christ and am lead by the Holy Spirit. But when I sin, I confess it and He is faithful and just and forgives us our sins and cleanses us of all unrighteousness.

If anyone is using the grace of God as a license to sin, then they do not have the Spirit of God. The true believer who is saved by grace keeps their body under control and flees from the sinful nature, not because he is under the law, but because he is in Christ and Christ is in him.

Attempting to keep the law will have the opposite affect. Faith in Christ focuses on the Lord's finished work on the cross. Attempting to keep the works of the law puts the focus on our own works as a means of earning salvation.

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone teaching against obedience does not hear Jesus Christ; at least not well.

He teaches that on the two great laws of love hangs all of the law.

He is not saying the law is abolished,destroyed, discontinued, or ended. He says all of the law hangs on the two laws of love. This means the law as He teaches it is still quite in effect for children of obedience.

Teaching against this truth is teaching disobedience, and we all know according to Paul we have turned from being children of disobedience to be ing children of obedience.

If anyone is so irresponsible and ungrateful as to believe grace translates as disobedience at will, that one is still groping in darkness.


I pray for any and all who believe grace is such license. Obeying the Master (Teacher) is a privilege a, andhonor and a joy to know. If you do not feel this, you are missing out of following Him

 

[Ahwatukee]

If anyone is using the grace of God as a license to sin, then they do not have the Spirit of God. The true believer who is saved by grace keeps their body under control and flees from the sinful nature, not because he is under the law, but because he is in Christ and Christ is in him.

Now I know why Jesus says there will be many on that day who will say "Lord, Lord, didn't we...." I'll say it again, anyone who puts themselves under the works of the law to keep as a means of personal effort as a requirement for salvation, will not enter into the kingdom of God. Those who are followers of Christ and who are not under the law, do not live according to the sinful nature, but are lead by the Spirit. The true person in Christ is trusting in Him as the One who fulfilled the law completely and fully bringing it to its end. Jesus did not come to perpetuate the law, but to fulfill it meeting its righteous requirements. I would suggest that you go back and reread the letter to the Galatians and Romans, because the Holy Spirit through Paul makes it quite clear that we are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own doing. It is the gift of God, not by works.

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Anyone teaching against obedience does not hear Jesus Christ; at least not well.

He teaches that on the two great laws of love hangs all of the law.

He is not saying the law is abolished,destroyed, discontinued, or ended. He says all of the law hangs on the two laws of love. This means the law as He teaches it is still quite in effect for children of obedience.

Teaching against this truth is teaching disobedience, and we all know according to Paul we have turned from being children of disobedience to be ing children of obedience.

If anyone is so irresponsible and ungrateful as to believe grace translates as disobedience at will, that one is still groping in darkness.


I pray for any and all who believe grace is such license. Obeying the Master (Teacher) is a privilege a, andhonor and a joy to know. If you do not feel this, you are missing out of following Him

We are to be led of the holy spirit. The holy spirit only speaks those things that Jesus speaks. Jesus will never say anything contrary to the righteousness of the law.

 

[jasonj]

We are to be led of the holy spirit. The holy spirit only speaks those things that Jesus speaks. Jesus will never say anything contrary to the righteousness of the law.

he does speak against the man made regulations and traditions added to the mosaic Law, yet you are correct, He will always uphold the righteous rewquirements of Gods law as we are to do also. good stuff

 

[JaumeJ]

Of course, and what Jesus teaches should be written on our hearts but hearing so many thinking grace does not translate as obeying what is written on our hearts is alarming.

We are to be led of the holy spirit. The holy spirit only speaks those things that Jesus speaks. Jesus will never say anything contrary to the righteousness of the law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

he does speak against the man made regulations and traditions added to the mosaic Law, yet you are correct, He will always uphold the righteous requirements of Gods law as we are to do also. good stuff

Don't know if you know this or not, but the expression "righteous requirements", which comes from Romans 8:4, is the same word used in Revelation 19:8 that is translated "righteous deeds".

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

The word is derived from the verb to justify. It has the -ma suffix, which means effect. So the word essentially means justify effect, or righteous effect, or something along that line. So Romans 8:4 can read

in order that the righteous effect (or work) of the law would be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Of course, and what Jesus teaches should be written on our hearts but hearing so many thinking grace does not translate as obeying what is written on our hearts is alarming.

I was in no way finding fault with what you said, but rather supporting it and glorifying it through different wording

 

[jasonj]

Don't know if you know this or not, but the expression "righteous requirements", which comes from Romans 8:4, is the same word used in Revelation 19:8 that is translated "righteous deeds".

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

The word is derived from the verb to justify. It has the -ma suffix, which means effect. So the word essentially means justify effect, or righteous effect, or something along that line. So Romans 8:4 can read

in order that the righteous effect (or work) of the law would be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

I didn't know that thank you for the info . I find and this is only my own opinion, that if we are following Jesus teachings, it is impossible to transgress the law. if that makes sense. and again only my own opinion. honestly, I find a lot of use in your knowledge of translations and Hebrew and greek ect, thank you for taking the time to learn and share those things, always helpful to myself and I'm sure others. I appreciate that

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I didn't know that thank you for the info . I find and this is only my own opinion, that if we are following Jesus teachings, it is impossible to transgress the law. if that makes sense. and again only my own opinion. honestly, I find a lot of use in your knowledge of translations and Hebrew and greek ect, thank you for taking the time to learn and share those things, always helpful to myself and I'm sure others. I appreciate that

That's exactly right. Every righteous effect of the law is fulfilled (accomplished) as we walk in the spirit.

 

[jasonj]

That's exactly right. Every righteous effect of the law is fulfilled (accomplished) as we walk in the spirit.

amen and also, by obeying Him, we are cleansed from the heart and His nature becomes natural to us so that it requires less effort as we grow and brings us to restin obedience. that's the power of the gospel and why I hold to its superiority over all else. his teachings are spirit and life and the way to eternal life

 

[Grace777x70]

The fine linen in Revelation is the righteousness of Jesus because of what He did. Doing righteous deeds does not make one righteous. Only Jesus makes us righteous - we don't make ourselves righteous.

Revelation 19:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 3:20-23
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

2 Corinthians 3:5-8

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


There is the ministration of the Law and the ministration of the Spirit. Under the Law you are required to work and obey. Under the Spirit you are given the provision of Righteousness.

You can't work at Righteousness to attain it. You are given Righteousness as a gift. You can't work at Salvation to attain it. Salvation is given as a gift.


The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law. If you ever figure out that you can't do it and come to Him. And it should be pretty obvious that you can't if you read Matt 5. Or any of the rest of the NT.

 

[BibleGuy]

Hello BibleGuy,



Anyone who attempts to enter the kingdom of God through the works of the law will never enter in. Just because we are no longer under the law, it does not mean that we have Carte Blanche to sin.

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

Paul spoke about why Israel did not obtain the righteousness that they so eagerly sought after:

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone."

Our salvation is obtained by trusting in Christ who alone provided salvation by the shedding of His blood. Anyone who brings in other requirements along side of what Jesus already accomplished is basically saying that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. I walk in Christ, but I have not put myself under the law to keep. I don't live according to the sinful nature because I am following Christ and am lead by the Holy Spirit. But when I sin, I confess it and He is faithful and just and forgives us our sins and cleanses us of all unrighteousness.

If anyone is using the grace of God as a license to sin, then they do not have the Spirit of God. The true believer who is saved by grace keeps their body under control and flees from the sinful nature, not because he is under the law, but because he is in Christ and Christ is in him.

Attempting to keep the law will have the opposite affect. Faith in Christ focuses on the Lord's finished work on the cross. Attempting to keep the works of the law puts the focus on our own works as a means of earning salvation.

Lots of great points!

Everything you said, here, is true.

AND, it's also consistent with the Christian moral obligation to grow in FAITHFUL obedience to God's COMMANDS, just as Paul (1 Cor. 7:19), and John (1 Jn. 5:3), and Jesus (Mt. 22:37 applies Dt. 6 to us!) taught.

blessings...
BibleGuy