Seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

[Grace777x70]

Nonsense Abraham was saved by faith and imputed righteousness from God even before the law. Salvation has always been based on God's grace through faith which inputs righteousness and produces a "doing" faith that produces good fruit.

The law which came 430 years later could not make void the promise given to Abraham and to his seed by faith, which was Christ working in them. So the Jews who were saved in the OT are also saved based on the same faith in what God said to do, not by the works of law. No one is justified by the works of the law, so it was always based on faith and a working righteousness being manifest in the believer by Christ in them, the seed of promise.

That's what I and others have been trying to tell you for months now - whether one tries to "maintain" salvation by the "law method of doing" or they are doing it now on their own by "their" good deeds - it's all the same thing - "works righteousness".

For the believer it's all by faith in what Christ has already done for us. Works-righteousness is the person "doing the work" in order to either get or "maintain" righteousness. This is the difference and go back to post #459 as it gives further clarification.

If we can't see the difference between works-righteousness and faith-righteousness - then I can see why some people have trouble with the gospel of the grace of Christ.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-spirits-doctrines-devils-23.html#post2643198

 

[Angela53510]

Gotta love it! Both me and Paul "cherry pick" verses to support our message.

I was showing how Paul pulled these verses out of their contexts here


Snipped out your nitpicking at my spelling and your own example as you set forth as its not useful I was using Paul's own.

I responded,

Which are also shown here where these specific verses in the footnotes are gathered up here


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 10

Which is why InSpiritInTruth said,

He is speaking of the rules that you applied, which you did not know was Paul's, but it was from his example that I had pulled out from (even from the first) as set forth in Romans 10 there

So Paul and ISIT are on the same level with regards to the inspiration and interpretation of Scripture??

"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God," Romans 1:1

"Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus," 1 Cor. 1:1a

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother," 2 Cor. 1:1a

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother," Col. 1:1a

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God," Eph. 1:1a

"Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead- Gal. 1:1

So those are some of Paul's qualifications. That God chose him to be an apostle, that it is written in the Bible, which we know to be true, and that he was not chosen by men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father!

I think that gives Paul a lot of leeway as far as taking verses "out of context." God was leading and guiding him when he wrote these letters. Parchment paper or scrolls were expensive and valuable, so no, he didn't write out the whole passage, which in Romans 10, the Jews already knew! Jewish boys were required to not just study but to memorize Scripture. Paul had memorized a good portion of the Old Testament, so the readers of the epistles knew that when he referred to a certain verse in the OT, they probably had a good idea what Paul was referring to, as to context. So that is the context of Romans 10 - speaking to Jews who knew the passages of the verses that Paul was quoting!


The point of context, and good principles of interpretation, is that we are NOT Paul, and for all the rest of us in this forum know, people constantly doing word searches and copying and pasting them may not even be saved. (Not saying anyone in particular or even at this time - just the Internet in general!) The devil loved to quote Scripture, too! He is probably the finest example of bad hermeneutics, and twisting the Bible by pulling a verse here or a verse there to try and manipulate people to do his will. (See Mark 1; Matt 4:1-11 and the temptation of Jesus!)

Demonstrating the truth of their opinions to me, and many in this forum is going to require a lot more than a bunch of assorted verses, mostly from the Old Testament, strung together to support their opinions.

Yet, for some reason, people on this forum actually put themselves in the same class as Paul and suggest that if Paul could cherry-pick, so could they!

Again, the context of the verses Paul used in Romans 10 listed above, is that he knew where they came from, who wrote them, and why, and probably most of his listeners/readers did too. Romans 9-11 is spoken directly to his countrymen, the Jews.

But ISIT and others are speaking to Christians of various flavours, and many unbelievers who read the threads without registering. They don't know the context of the verses.

And to set himself up as being a prophet, in the same category as Paul is arrogance and pride of the worst sort!

The reason the principles of hermeneutics was developed, was so that people who do not know the Bible as well as a first century Jews, or Paul (or Jesus for that matter, who broke his own people's rules about Biblical interpretation by mixing verses in the same sentence from different books of the OT!) would understand how the writer arrives at their conclusion.

I would really also like to see the context of every verse, to better understand what the poster is talking about. I also believe that is we followed the rules of hermeneutics, there would be a lot less fighting, because people would actually have to see the passage as a whole, and not just rely on Internet word searches.

So ISIT and Paul cherry pick verses, do they? That is just rich! Seriously, if he truly believes that he is in the same category as Paul with his writing, (and others) then I have great concern for him, and his objectivity regarding anything he writes.

No, no prophets in this forum, that I can see!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

That's what I and others have been trying to tell you for months now - whether one tries to "maintain" salvation by the "law method of doing" or they are doing it now on their own by "their" good deeds - it's all the same thing - "works righteousness".

For the believer it's all by faith in what Christ has already done for us. Works-righteousness is the person "doing the work" in order to either get or "maintain" righteousness. This is the difference and go back to post #459 as it gives further clarification.

If we can't see the difference between works-righteousness and faith-righteousness - then I can see why some people have trouble with the gospel of the grace of Christ.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-spirits-doctrines-devils-23.html#post2643198

I have been saying this all along. The difference is you guys believe in a "maintenance free" salvation. You believe nothing by way of righteous works is required on your part to remain, or abide in Christ for salvation. Therefore you also do not think ongoing sin can cause you to loose salvation, because nothing on your part can qualify you, or even disqualify you, even by ongoing sin. You say you believe in the finished work of Christ, that's it, just lip service, nothing else required on your part.

So your belief, (even though you speak it, then deny it later) is a do nothing, no works required, "maintenance free" salvation. This is a perverted watered down version of the gospel of grace, and is not according to the words of Jesus Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's what I and others have been trying to tell you for months now - whether one tries to "maintain" salvation by the "law method of doing" or they are doing it now on their own by "their" good deeds - it's all the same thing - "works righteousness".

Abraham "maintained" his right standing with GOD by doing: becoming circumcised and offering Isaac.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

No way could InSpirit be in the same league as Paul, thats ridiculous we know Paul claimed to be the chief of sinners, you can only fall under him (not above him)

The Holy Ghost taught Paul, unless folks get a lesser Ghost? Or is that a portion of the same?

Shows aultitude of scripture from various places through Paul and it would very likely be called cherry picking today if he was among us and these things werent already mapped out (in respects to his footprints). Doing so doesnt default someone to being correct but the same paths through the same as by the same Spirit would look similiar.

(typo... oh noo..)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So Paul and ISIT are on the same level with regards to the inspiration and interpretation of Scripture??

Me and Paul agree, and both me and Paul were inspired and anointed by the same Lord and same Spirit of Truth. It is this same Spirit who gives us the understanding to know the many mysteries in God's words. Even both me and Paul use the whole Bible comparing spiritual things with spiritual to show the proper interpretations that only belong to God and His anointed priesthood, to whom He alone reveals these things to. But as it is written, the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them, because they spiritually discerned.

But I do not dare compare myself to Paul, as Paul is a much better man than me. But we do both have the same Master and Teacher, and so I do understand and agree with Paul and also agree in the manner in which Paul puts a message together using bits and pieces of scripture from several different books of the Old Testament. For instance if one does not understand this concept of comparing spiritual things with spiritual by the Holy Spirit, then they will never understand the many symbolisms found in the book of Revelation, because the imagery is being drawn from many different parts of scripture. But to you, it would be pulling verses out of context.

But many who are still in the flesh will not agree with us, and even hate those who are of God's Spirit, as it has always been this way since Cain killed Abel. It was also many of the religious folk that persecuted and killed some of the prophets, apostles, they even had our Lord turned over to be killed. So it is of no surprise to me that this falling away from the faith is in full swing, and this hatred from the children of the flesh toward the children of the Spirit would also be manifest in the man made church system, as it was also with the carnal priesthood of Israel.

But again, enough about me, this is a Bible discussion forum not a express your personal opinion about ISIT forum.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have been saying this all along. The difference is you guys believe in a "maintenance free" salvation. You believe nothing by way of righteous works is required on your part to remain, or abide in Christ for salvation. Therefore you also do not think ongoing sin can cause you to loose salvation, because nothing on your part can qualify you, or even disqualify you, even by ongoing sin. You say you believe in the finished work of Christ, that's it, just lip service, nothing else required on your part.

So your belief, (even though you speak it, then deny it later) is a do nothing, no works required, "maintenance free" salvation. This is a perverted watered down version of the gospel of grace, and is not according to the words of Jesus Christ.

I see you still are missing what is being said but there is a glimmer of the gospel starting to come to you I see. We believe that if we preach Christ - then believers will walk in who they are in Christ. Preaching condemnation is NOT the gospel.

Here is the link again for post #459 which will tell you again for the 21st time exactly what I and many others believe concerning faith-righteousness and works-righteousness..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-spirits-doctrines-devils-23.html#post2643198

I do say and many others too that salvation for going to be with Christ in heaven is totally 100% based on His finished work. This is the stumbling block for works-righteousness mindsets.

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[Grace777x70]

removed please stay on topic

 

[MikeHenderson]

removed please stay on topic

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

removed please stay on topic thank you request of original poster

 

[MikeHenderson]

please stay on topic

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Nonsense Abraham was saved by faith and imputed righteousness from God even before the law. Salvation has always been based on God's grace through faith which inputs righteousness and produces a "doing" faith that produces good fruit.

The law which came 430 years later could not make void the promise given to Abraham and to his seed by faith, which was Christ working in them. So the Jews who were saved in the OT are also saved based on the same faith in what God said to do, not by the works of law. No one is justified by the works of the law, so it was always based on faith and a working righteousness being manifest in the believer by Christ in them, the seed of promise.

When you think about it, Abraham's obedient faith is responsible for the chain of events that has led to our salvation.

Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:3-5​

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

When you think about it, Abraham's obedient faith is responsible for the chain of events that has led to our salvation.

Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:3-5​

Amen, the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, a disobedient and unfaithful faith is no faith at all is it?

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen, the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, a disobedient and unfaithful faith is no faith at all is it?

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

It's interesting and significant that in Genesis 26:3-5 GOD didn't say that he would continue the promises and covenant with Isaac because of Abraham's faith, but because Abraham obeyed GOD's voice.

Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:5​

 

[ladylynn]

I have been saying this all along. The difference is you guys believe in a "maintenance free" salvation. You believe nothing by way of righteous works is required on your part to remain, or abide in Christ for salvation. Therefore you also do not think ongoing sin can cause you to loose salvation, because nothing on your part can qualify you, or even disqualify you, even by ongoing sin. You say you believe in the finished work of Christ, that's it, just lip service, nothing else required on your part.

So your belief, (even though you speak it, then deny it later) is a do nothing, no works required, "maintenance free" salvation. This is a perverted watered down version of the gospel of grace, and is not according to the words of Jesus Christ.

I KNOW!!! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! How can people - who, as we all know and have experienced for ourselves (just by looking in the mirror and examining our inner motives) are rotten to the core!! How can these SAME people desire to go after Jesus and not after sin without and unless God rolls out the "big guns" of law, fiery judgments.,fearful expectations., (retributions), and (worry) God will zap them with a heart attack, lightning bolt... cancer...or some other horrible loss due to sin and bad behavior in life??

As many here will happily tell you - It's the love of God shed abroad in our hearts - new hearts!! He gave us new hearts and took away the stoney one! Having a new heart changes every thing. And as a matter of fact we are told NOT to worry. ISIT, you cannot assume born again believers who believe Christ is the Author and Finisher of their faith do not work after they are saved just because you don't see how that would be possible. In Christ it IS.


We do. But we talk about the work of Jesus that maintains us (not) our works. It is Christ from the beginning to the end. Grace is the unmerited love and favor of God upon us. Knowing you are loved (unconditionally) NO STINGS ATTACHED., frees you to walk in that love and motivates you to go the extra mile in your life because you know beyond a shadow of a doubt (and there is no shadow of turning with Jesus) James 1:16 That God is FOR YOU and not against you in every situation in life FOR your whole life and existence because you are a son. That will never change because He made us sons by His own gift of righteousness., not our own works of righteousness... we don't have any righteousness unless it is given and received as a gift.

Just like the hymns believers have been writing for years (they got from the Bible) ... Behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us.. That....we.... should be called the sons of God. Beholding the "manner" of love that the Father has for us is what we are constantly reminded to do in the Bible and are continually learning to do from the Bible and the HolySpirit daily. It is our strength and empowering.

With man this is IMPOSSIBLE., you are exactly right! But with God it is possible because all things are possible in Him., and not only possible but a sure thing He has CALLED us to know and share by FAITH.

And do not forget that grace; (the unconditional unmerited unearned love of God) IS WHAT teaches us HOW to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts... HOW to live soberly...righteously and Godly IN THIS PRESENT WORLD. If we don't have a grasp of the kind of love God has for us (grace) we will not be taught how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts because we will be trying to deny those things in our own strength and that is sheer human will that fails every time to satisfy the soul or to live a satisfying life. Moral reformation is not Holy Spirit transformation.

Moral reform will not change us inside. It will however teach us if we do this..we will get that...so if we don't want to get bad, we better do good. (even if we don't feeeeeel like doing good we will do it because the ramifications of bad are to high) Human "will" can keep you from drinking alcohol in access, cheating on your wife.,lying., stealing., swearing., and engaging in all kinds of other sinful activity.

But the love of God (grace) will change you from inside out and you will not WANT to cheat or steal or swear or engage in those sins. Many people just don't have opportunity to cheat. And they boast in their having not sinned in that area yet they lust in their hearts but they just don't go through with it in physical sense. But their heart is not free.

That is the difference between man's will and God's empowering. He has changed us and it's real. The problem- as one of my favorite pastors has said, the problem is many Christians are on AM not FM.

Learn about the love of God in Christ., and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

 

[ladylynn]

The prophecy of the falling away from the faith is very real, but many do not believe it to be true, like those who believe in OSAS, which is why there is so much hatred toward my threads warning people of this very real danger and the dangers of ongoing sin. If you are truly in Christ you would agree with this message because the Holy Spirit gave it. The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth spoke of it through Jesus and the apostles, as I showed with multiple verses of scripture.

If you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are truly in Christ then you have nothing to worry about, so why all the fuss against the message? But to say the warnings and curses mentioned in the Bible are unbiblical and should not be taught is just plain ridiculous. God has always sent his prophets, apostles, disciples to preach both the blessings and the curses. Many in these last days have departed from the truth of the gospel and have been led astray by many deceivers. So I warn others of this, not to condemn, but to call them back to the Truth, to an obedient walk of faith, and to cease from a lifestyle of ongoing sin that they might be saved.

It is those who continue in sin, hypocrites, those who are disobedience and are in constant rebellion toward Gods words of Truth that are the cursed children.

2 Peter 2:14 "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

There is no "hatred" going on here. I have no hatred for you or your posts. I do get annoyed at you and your posts -for sure- your posts that constantly (like the dripping and dripping of water torture) misrepresent God's relationship with us the sheep of His pasture.., but no hatred at all.

In the new covenant we are reminded to focus on Jesus. Magnify Him and His finished work. His work has taken all curses away for the believer. God is not threatening us with curses anymore because of Jesus His Son. When you magnify Jesus you will see there is no curse coming our way.

The enemy of our souls is the one who preaches the message of curses. he is the liar and father of lies. he is the one who comes to kill steal and destroy. he wants to do what he has always done, cause people to look away from Jesus and to took at self. he got Adam and Eve to doubt God's love and all men fell. (By one man's sin) But Jesus was not fooled by the devil. Jesus knew the love of the Father and when satan tried to misrepresent God to Jesus, Jesus confidence in the Love of God caused Him to be strong in times of temptation. Where Adam failed, Jesus passed each and every testing and trial.

Like Jesus, we are to have a bold confidence in the grace of God for us. Be imitators of Christ.

 

[ladylynn]

It's obvious she was talking to ISIT and not you. Sometimes it really does help to read what is posted. I know it helps me when I do.

Here is her post again if you do read it to see what was said to who.

And to answer ISIT post#354 God no longer curses us.,we are IN His Son., so there is no need to warn us of curses so He does not do that. (you need to find out who is cursed) No more curses come down on those who are in Christ. Jesus took every curse meant for everyone born in Adam who have been reborn in Christ. There is no curse or fear of a curse for us. For you to preach and teach it is unbiblical.

You miss the great and awesome message and you can't post it. But that is the message and truth we have in Christ. I'm not sure what you guys are edified by if you don't know the constant and abiding love of God in Christ. Is it your religion? Is it your satisfaction in your own ability to believe you have met the requirements of a Holy Righteous God?

So then instead you speak to everyone constantly of and having a certain expectation of judgment., for you have "arrived" on your own merit to the challenge you believe is put before you by God?.,so is that the reason you are not daily afraid and scared stiff?? You have confidence in yourself that much?

Jesus has taken away all believers judgments and curses so there is no fear of them anymore. We have His love and grace. No fear whatsoever. Perfect love (the kind that God gives) casts OUT fear. The love of God constrains and grows us. It does not bring down fear and doubt of our standing in Christ because we know that if one died for and rose again on our behalf, it is finished. Amen!!!! (just typed myself happy yet again after posting on this thread of doom and gloom)

I pray those who come here will be encouraged in Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross. And if they accept Him, they too can be confident and walk in newness of life in Christ not only for when they get to heaven but for today while they are here walking on earth with Him as their Good Shepherd who feeds His flock and leads them beside the still waters. Psalm 23 AMEN!!! [/SIZE]

Thank you Grace777 for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thank you Grace777 for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

You are welcome!

I think there has been enough scriptures given out to show the love of God for His children and that He loves us dearly and we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. I personally don't have anything more to add to the seducing spirits and doctrines of demons thread here. It's all been said.

I personally believe that preaching Christ is the answer to these seducing spirits and doctrines of demons which is talked about in 1 Tim 4:1-6. It is obviously the teachings of having to "do something" to "maintain" your own righteousness. This is clearly NOT the gospel.

Satan and his horde ( seducing spirits and doctrines of demons ) do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and His finished work and the light will dispel the darkness.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Matthew 25:

The Parable of the Ten Virgins1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and fivewere foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Heres a couple also

Oil in the dwelling of the wise

Prov 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise;
but a foolish man spendeth it up. (Mat 25:8)

Showing the foolish spendeth it up

Prov 29:3 Whoso loveth wisdom rejoiceth his father:
buthe that keepeth company with harlots spendeth his substance.

These two also

1Cr 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.