Whats the deal with Catholics?
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Dear valiant
The Gr has another tense aorist if it wanted to refer to just the past and present. What you just said however is admitting that Mary was in a state of Grace thst occurrd somtime in the past and occurrd at the time tgd Angel was speaking to her. ( which would be an aorist tense) perfect passive means a continuing state.
The Gr has another tense aorist if it wanted to refer to just the past and present. What you just said however is admitting that Mary was in a state of Grace thst occurrd somtime in the past and occurrd at the time tgd Angel was speaking to her. ( which would be an aorist tense) perfect passive means a continuing state.
Dear Valiant
Jesus was hardly putting his mother in place. Firstly I don't think Christ would dis honor his mother by breaking a commandment. That text, although someone in educated in that culture and reading that text in English often does come up with that idea. Doing the will of God goes beyond family ties. We are first children of our Heavenly Father.
Jesus was hardly putting his mother in place. Firstly I don't think Christ would dis honor his mother by breaking a commandment. That text, although someone in educated in that culture and reading that text in English often does come up with that idea. Doing the will of God goes beyond family ties. We are first children of our Heavenly Father.
Dear God4 me
The Catholic Church is not made up of the Roman Rite. The Cathollic Church , which simply means universal is made up of 21 Liturgical Rites all having apostolic succession. The Catholic Church all 21 Rites are united in belief even though we celebrate the Liturgy in each culture with their own traditions. The Bible is first and foremost a book of the Church. It is a product of the Church through the inspiration of the HS as the author. But the Scriptures are Itself Oral Tradition written down
The Catholic Church is not made up of the Roman Rite. The Cathollic Church , which simply means universal is made up of 21 Liturgical Rites all having apostolic succession. The Catholic Church all 21 Rites are united in belief even though we celebrate the Liturgy in each culture with their own traditions. The Bible is first and foremost a book of the Church. It is a product of the Church through the inspiration of the HS as the author. But the Scriptures are Itself Oral Tradition written down
your knowledge of Greek is poor and probably derived..
the aorist participle means something that happened in the past once for all. It is use when God wishes to say we are saved once for all. The perfect participle means something that has happened in the past and continues to the present of the speaker. It does not have in mind the future. Thus 'by grace are you saved' is perfect. You were saved and are saved now.
Joseph was also in a state of being accepted by God, as were Elizabeth and zacarias and many others. I am in a state of grace. it simply means we are accepted by the grace of God, which is true of all real Christians. It is a state of acceptance, not an experiential state. Mary was born in sin and had a sinful nature. At some stage she had sought forgiveness and like many others had received it. She was favoured by God as were all godly folk. She was given special favour in that she was to be the mother of the Messiah.. The angel greeted her with a normal greeting (hail, or as we would say, hello) and then pointed out that God had chosen her as mother of the Messiah. That is all that highly favoured meant. Anything else is a total distortion of the meaning.
All real Christians are constantly in 'a state of grace' (an unscriptural description which is misleading), for God has shown His grace towards them permanently. They are saved for ever by His unmerited favour. In that Mary was no different from any other saved person.
All the baloney that the Roman Catholic church invents about her is just that, Baloney,
the aorist participle means something that happened in the past once for all. It is use when God wishes to say we are saved once for all. The perfect participle means something that has happened in the past and continues to the present of the speaker. It does not have in mind the future. Thus 'by grace are you saved' is perfect. You were saved and are saved now.
Joseph was also in a state of being accepted by God, as were Elizabeth and zacarias and many others. I am in a state of grace. it simply means we are accepted by the grace of God, which is true of all real Christians. It is a state of acceptance, not an experiential state. Mary was born in sin and had a sinful nature. At some stage she had sought forgiveness and like many others had received it. She was favoured by God as were all godly folk. She was given special favour in that she was to be the mother of the Messiah.. The angel greeted her with a normal greeting (hail, or as we would say, hello) and then pointed out that God had chosen her as mother of the Messiah. That is all that highly favoured meant. Anything else is a total distortion of the meaning.
All real Christians are constantly in 'a state of grace' (an unscriptural description which is misleading), for God has shown His grace towards them permanently. They are saved for ever by His unmerited favour. In that Mary was no different from any other saved person.
All the baloney that the Roman Catholic church invents about her is just that, Baloney,
Ongoing sanctification is a process and not a one time event (justification is a one time event). I "hope" to be saved is not a "cross your fingers hope so" with no assurance kind of hope.
Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. Hope - 1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain). Without the clear and certain promises of the Word of God that those who believe in the name of the Son of God can KNOW they have eternal life (1 John 5:13), the believer would have no hope. If we have saving faith in Christ which trusts exclusively in Him for salvation then we have this hope.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Titus 3:7 - that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin - Ephesians 2:8 (Justification).
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin - 1 Corinthians 1:18 (ongoing Sanctification).
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin - Romans 8:30 (Glorification).
Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. Hope - 1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain). Without the clear and certain promises of the Word of God that those who believe in the name of the Son of God can KNOW they have eternal life (1 John 5:13), the believer would have no hope. If we have saving faith in Christ which trusts exclusively in Him for salvation then we have this hope.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Titus 3:7 - that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin - Ephesians 2:8 (Justification).
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin - 1 Corinthians 1:18 (ongoing Sanctification).
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin - Romans 8:30 (Glorification).
Dear Mailmadan
I do agree with your definition of "hope" in fact the Catechism of the Catholic Church defines the Theological virtue of hope this way:
Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ’s promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. (CCC 1817)
And I see you do have sanctification as a process. But Scripture uses Justification as a process as well.
Justification in the BibleFirst, here are some verses showing justification as a past event:
“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand…” (Romans 5:1-2
)
“Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” (Romans 5:9
)
“And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1Corinthians 6:11
)
Note here that Santification actually precedes justification. St Paul uses these terms fluidly, unlike Protestantism which has created an artificial divide between the two.
Next: Justification as a state to be completed in the future:
Justification is therefore clearly a past event in the life of the believer. Unfortunately, most Protestants have camped out on verses which imply this and have concluded that justification is a once-for-all event, rather than also being an ongoing and not yet completed process.
Note here that Santification actually precedes justification. St Paul uses these terms fluidly, unlike Protestantism which has created an artificial divide between the two.
Next: Justification as a state to be completed in the future:
The following verses is the word Justified in a future incomplete sense
” . . . for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;” (Romans 2:13
)
” . . . for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;” (Romans 2:13
“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20
)
But however attractive the single, once-for-all view of justification may be to some, there are serious exegetical considerations weighing against it. This may be seen by looking at how the New Testament handles the story of Abraham.
One of the classic Old Testament texts on justification is Genesis 15:6
Now, if justification is a once-for-all event, rather than a process, then that means that Abraham could not receive justification either before or after Genesis 15:6
First, the book of Hebrews tells us that
“By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to set out for a place that he was to receive as an inheritance, not knowing where he was going.” (Hebrews 11:8
)
Every Protestant will passionately agree that the subject of Hebrews 11 is saving faith
But when did he have this faith? The passage tells us: Abraham had it “when he was called to go out to the place he would afterward receive.” The problem for the once-for-all view of justification is that is that the call of Abraham to leave Haran is recorded in Genesis 12:1-4
But if Abraham had saving faith back in Genesis 12, then he was justified back in Genesis 12. Yet Paul clearly tells us that he was also justified in Genesis 15. So justification must be more than just a once-for-all event.
But just as Abraham received justification before Genesis 15:6
“Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,’ and he was called the friend of God.” (James 2:21-23
)
James thus tells us “[w]as not our ancestor Abraham justified . . . when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?” In this instance, the faith which he had displayed in the initial promise of descendants was fulfilled in his actions (see also Heb. 11:17-19
Abraham therefore received justification The problem for the once-for-all view is that the offering of Isaac is recorded in Gen. 22:1-18
Therefore, we see that Abraham was justified on at least three different occasions: he was justified in Genesis 12, when he first left Haran and went to the promised land; he was justified in Genesis 15, when he believed the promise concerning his descendants; and he was justified in Genesis 22, when he offered his first promised descendant on the altar.
As a result, justification must be seen, not as a once-for-all event, but as a process which continues throughout the believer’s life. In fact, it is even a process which extends beyond the believer’s life. This is shown by passages in Scripture where Paul indicates that there is a sense in which our justification is still future:
” . . . for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;” (Romans 2:13
)
“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20
)
Commenting on the second of these passages, the famous Protestant exegete, James D.G. Dunn points out that Paul’s statement alludes to Psalm 142:2
“The metaphor in the psalm is of a servant being called to account before his master, but in the context here [in Romans] the imagery of final judgement is to the fore . . . Against the view that Paul sees ‘justification’ simply as an act which marks the beginning of a believer’s life, as a believer, here is a further example [in addition to 2:13] of the verb used for a final verdict, not excluding the idea of the final verdict at the end of life . . . “
But even apart from such verses, we could deduce a future justification on theological grounds alone. Protestants place much emphasis on the declarative aspect of justification (i.e., God declaring one righteous) and they have places special emphasis on the legal/courtroom contexts in which this declaration may occur. However, the ultimate and final courtroom declaration concerning the believer does not occur until he stands before God (at his death and at the end of the world). So we may infer that the ultimate and final pronouncement of the believer as righteous does not lie in this life. We certainly are declared righteous by God in this life, but the final, consummating declaration of our righteousness will not occur until our Final Judgement, and therefore our final justification will not occur until this time. As a result, there remains a future justification for all believers.
God does not give remnants of his grace to anyone and say work to complete the mercy required to have salvation your own self.. What is applied to Mary is applied to every lively stone that makes up the spiritual house of God His bride. Mary is no less one of the members as the bride of Christ then the new believer today,. The word highly favored indicates out of all the sinners in the world God has had mercy of the elect.
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
The Lord is with all of his Children .if any man has not the Spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to Him .This includes our blessed by the mercy of God sister in the lord, Mary .( She is sound asleep for two thousand years now))
The phrase "highly favored" in Luke 1 represents "accepted in the beloved" in Ephesians, no difference mercy is needed in both cases. To be highly favored is to be accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
5487 charitoo {khar-ee-to'-o}
from 5485; TDNT - 9:372,1298; v
AV - be highly favoured 1, make accepted 1; 2
1) to make graceful 1a) charming, lovely, agreeable 2) to peruse with grace, compass with favour 3) to honour with blessings
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
The Lord is with all of his Children .if any man has not the Spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to Him .This includes our blessed by the mercy of God sister in the lord, Mary .( She is sound asleep for two thousand years now))
The phrase "highly favored" in Luke 1 represents "accepted in the beloved" in Ephesians, no difference mercy is needed in both cases. To be highly favored is to be accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
5487 charitoo {khar-ee-to'-o}
from 5485; TDNT - 9:372,1298; v
AV - be highly favoured 1, make accepted 1; 2
1) to make graceful 1a) charming, lovely, agreeable 2) to peruse with grace, compass with favour 3) to honour with blessings
Dear Mailmadan
In addition, the word salvation, redemption are also use in a past present and future sense. Showing that salvation is a process and not just a one-time- event .
PAST EVENT
“even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (all Scripture quotations NKJV)
Since this passage speaks of salvation in the past tense, something that has been done to us, it is conceiving of salvation as a past reality.
But this is only one aspect of salvation. There is an ongoing aspect to salvation as well, as is indicated in 1st Peter 1:8-9
ONGOING
” . . . Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving . . . the salvation of your souls.”
The same idea of salvation as something that is taking place presently is found in the writings of the St. Paul as well, for example, in Philippians 2:12
” . . . Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving . . . the salvation of your souls.”
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”
Salvation in the Bible is therefore also a process
SALVATION AS A FUTURE EVENT TO BE COMPLETED
“And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.” (Romans 13:11
)
“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1Corinthians 3:15
)
” . . . deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1Corinthians 5:5
)
These verses all speak of salvation in the future tense, as something that will happen to us in the future. Therefore, salvation has past, present, and future aspects or dimensions.
If we were to offer a general definition of salvation, including its past, present, and future dimensions, we would say something like, “Salvation is a process which begins when a person first becomes a Christian, which continues through the rest of his life, and which concludes on the Last Day.” This definition allows the faithful Christian to do justice to all of the Biblical data by saying, “I have been saved; I am being saved; and I will be saved.” It embraces all three of the aspects of salvation which are present in the biblical literature.
II.Other Aspects of Salvation
In addition to salvation as a whole, Scripture also speaks of individual aspects of salvation called redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification. These share the same past, present, and future dimensions that salvation as a whole does.
A. Redemption
First of all, redemption is sometimes spoken of as a present possession of believers, which means that they were redeemed sometime in the past:
“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7
)
“He has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” (Colossians 1:13-14
)
These verses indicate redemption was given to the Christian at the beginning of his life with God, when he first entered Christ (“in” him and “in” whom we have redemption). But there is yet a future redemption awaiting us, for we also read in Scripture:
“Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Luke 21:28
)
“And not only they, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for . . . the redemption of our body.” (Romans 8:23
)
[The Holy Spirit] “is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” (Ephesians 1:14
)
“And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30
)
Therefore, redemption, like salvation in general, is something that occurs at different points in the Christian’s life. There are no references in Scripture to redemption as a present process, but given the past and future dimensions of redemption, one may wish to infer that there is a sense in which we are “being redeemed” at the present time.
Dear garee
Thank you for your response. A couple things. Eph 1:6 is speaking about how God bestows grace upon us.
He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will:
With the aorist participle proorisas (he predestined or having predestined us) the focus on what God has accomplished is maintained'
God bestows grace upon believers and believers in turn praise the glory of that grace. Grace is certainly the main theme of the verse (on grace see also the notes and interpretation on 1:1–2). Not only does the central Pauline term charis (grace) occur here, but it should also be noted that the verb charitoō (to favor) is a cognate of that term. In the nt charitoō is found only in Eph 1:6 and Luke 1:28
St Paul is speaking about the grace ( charitoō (to favor) that is bestowed on all Christians. ( which I believe is your point.
The word charitoō morph is verb aorist indicative third person singular
Ok, what does that mean? it means God has bestowed grace charitoō to us ( third person) in the past aorist.
Now lets look at Luke's Gospel
an implicit reference is found in the angel’s greeting to Mary in Luke 1:28: "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you." The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. This means that the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, and was not only as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."
Do you see the difference.
Eph addresses all of us being bestowed with grace charitoō
Luke's Gospel is an address to a person. Hail Full of grace or Highly Favored ( grace can translate as God' favor)
the word Kecharitomene is not found in Eph just the first part charitoō
The angel actually communicated a new name or title to her. In Greek, the greeting was kaire, kekaritomene, or “Hail, full of grace.” Generally speaking, when one greeted another with kaire, a name or title would almost be expected to be found in the immediate context. “Hail, king of the Jews” in John 19:3 and “Claudias Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greeting” (Acts 23:26) are two biblical examples of this. The fact that the angel replaces Mary’s name in the greeting with “full of grace” was anything but common. This would be analogous to me speaking to one of our tech guys at Catholics answers and saying, “Hello, he who fixes computers.” In our culture, I would just be considered weird. But in Hebrew culture, names, and name changes, tell us something that is permanent about the character and calling of the one named. Just recall the name changes of Abram to Abraham (changed from “father” to “father of the multitudes”) in Gen. 17:5, Saray to Sarah (“my princess” to “princess”) in Gen. 17:15, and Jacob to Israel (“supplanter” to “he who prevails with God”) in Gen. 32:28.In each case, the names reveal something permanent about the one named. Abraham and Sarah transition from being a “father” and “princess” of one family to being “father” and “princess” or “mother” of the entire people of God (see Romans 4:1-18; Is. 51:1-2). They become Patriarch and Matriarch of God’s people forever. Jacob/Israel becomes the Patriarch whose name, “he who prevails with God,” continues forever in the Church, which is called “the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). The people of God will forever “prevail with God” in the image of the Patriarch Jacob who was not just named Israel, but he truly became “he who prevails with God.”
An entire tome could be written concerning the significance of God’s revelation of his name in Exodus 3:14-15 as I AM. God revealed to us volumes about his divine nature in and through the revelation of his name—God is pure being with no beginning and no end; he is all perfection, etc.
What’s in a name? A lot according to Scripture!
When you add to this the fact that St. Luke uses the perfect passive participle, kekaritomene, as his “name” for Mary, we get deeper insight into the meaning of Mary’s new name. This word literally means “she who has been graced” in a completed sense. This verbal adjective, “graced,” is not just describing a simple past action. Greek has the aorist tense for that. The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed in the past resulting in a present state of being. That’s Mary’s name! So what does it tell us about Mary? Well, the average Christian is not completed in grace and in a permanent sense (see Phil. 3:8-12). But according to the angel, Mary is. You and I sin, not because of grace, but because of a lack of grace, or a lack of our cooperation with grace, in our lives. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling of the Mother of God.
One objection to the above is rooted in Eph. 2:8-9. Here, St. Paul uses the perfect tense and passive voice when he says, “For by grace you have been saved…” Why wouldn’t we then conclude all Christians are complete in salvation for all time? There seems to be an inconsistency in usage here.
Actually, the Catholic Church understands that Christians are completed in grace when they are baptized. In context, St. Paul is speaking about the initial grace of salvation in Ephesians two. The verses leading up to Eph. 2:8-9, make this clear:
… we all lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath…even when we were dead in trespasses and sins…(by grace you have been saved)” (vss. 3-5).
But there is no indication here, as there is with Mary, that the Christian is going to stay that way. In other words, Eph. 2:8-9 does not confer a name.
In fact, because of original sin, we can guarantee that though we are certainly perfected in grace through baptism, ordinarily speaking, we will not stay that way after we are baptized; that is, if we live for very long afterward (see I John 1:8)! There may be times in the lives of Christians when they are completed or perfected in grace temporarily. For example, after going to confession or receiving the Eucharist well-disposed. We let God, of course, be the judge of this, not us, as St. Paul tells us in I Cor. 4:3-4:
I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted (Gr.—justified). It is the Lord who judges me.
But only Mary is given the name “full of grace” and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary was completed.
Thank you for your response. A couple things. Eph 1:6 is speaking about how God bestows grace upon us.
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Newberry, T., & Berry, G. R. (2004). The interlinear literal translation of the Greek New Testament (Eph 1:6). Bellingham, WA: [TR]
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[TD="align: center"]⋄[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]of grace[SUP] 2[/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]his,[SUP] 1[/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]wherein[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]♦[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ἔπαινος[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]δόξα[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]χάρις[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]αὐτός[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ὅς[/TD]
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[TR]
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[TD="align: center"]1519[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]1868[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]1391[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]3588[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]5485[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]846[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]1722[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]3739[/TD]
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He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will:
With the aorist participle proorisas (he predestined or having predestined us) the focus on what God has accomplished is maintained'
God bestows grace upon believers and believers in turn praise the glory of that grace. Grace is certainly the main theme of the verse (on grace see also the notes and interpretation on 1:1–2). Not only does the central Pauline term charis (grace) occur here, but it should also be noted that the verb charitoō (to favor) is a cognate of that term. In the nt charitoō is found only in Eph 1:6 and Luke 1:28
St Paul is speaking about the grace ( charitoō (to favor) that is bestowed on all Christians. ( which I believe is your point.
The word charitoō morph is verb aorist indicative third person singular
Ok, what does that mean? it means God has bestowed grace charitoō to us ( third person) in the past aorist.
Now lets look at Luke's Gospel
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]και[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]εισελθων[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ο[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]αγγελος[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]προς[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]αυτην[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ειπεν[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Χαιρε[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]And[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]coming[SUP] 3[/SUP][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]the[SUP] 1[/SUP][/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]to[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]said,[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]Hail,[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
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[TD="align: center"]καί[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]εἰσέρχομαι[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]ἄγγελος[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]λέγω[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]1525[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]3588[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]32[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4314[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]846[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2036[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]5463[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]5627[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"]κεχαριτωμενη[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][thou] favoured one![/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]χαριτόω[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5487[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]5772[/TD]
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[/TABLE]
Newberry, T., & Berry, G. R. (2004). The interlinear literal translation of the Greek New Testament (Lk 1:28). Bellingham, [TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]28 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]και[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]εισελθων[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ο[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]αγγελος[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]προς[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]αυτην[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]ειπεν[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]Χαιρε[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]And[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]coming[SUP] 3[/SUP][/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="align: center"]καί[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]εἰσέρχομαι[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]4314[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]κεχαριτωμενη[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"][thou] favoured one![/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]χαριτόω[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]5772[/TD]
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an implicit reference is found in the angel’s greeting to Mary in Luke 1:28: "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you." The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. This means that the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, and was not only as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."
Do you see the difference.
Eph addresses all of us being bestowed with grace charitoō
Luke's Gospel is an address to a person. Hail Full of grace or Highly Favored ( grace can translate as God' favor)
the word Kecharitomene is not found in Eph just the first part charitoō
The angel actually communicated a new name or title to her. In Greek, the greeting was kaire, kekaritomene, or “Hail, full of grace.” Generally speaking, when one greeted another with kaire, a name or title would almost be expected to be found in the immediate context. “Hail, king of the Jews” in John 19:3 and “Claudias Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greeting” (Acts 23:26) are two biblical examples of this. The fact that the angel replaces Mary’s name in the greeting with “full of grace” was anything but common. This would be analogous to me speaking to one of our tech guys at Catholics answers and saying, “Hello, he who fixes computers.” In our culture, I would just be considered weird. But in Hebrew culture, names, and name changes, tell us something that is permanent about the character and calling of the one named. Just recall the name changes of Abram to Abraham (changed from “father” to “father of the multitudes”) in Gen. 17:5, Saray to Sarah (“my princess” to “princess”) in Gen. 17:15, and Jacob to Israel (“supplanter” to “he who prevails with God”) in Gen. 32:28.In each case, the names reveal something permanent about the one named. Abraham and Sarah transition from being a “father” and “princess” of one family to being “father” and “princess” or “mother” of the entire people of God (see Romans 4:1-18; Is. 51:1-2). They become Patriarch and Matriarch of God’s people forever. Jacob/Israel becomes the Patriarch whose name, “he who prevails with God,” continues forever in the Church, which is called “the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). The people of God will forever “prevail with God” in the image of the Patriarch Jacob who was not just named Israel, but he truly became “he who prevails with God.”
An entire tome could be written concerning the significance of God’s revelation of his name in Exodus 3:14-15 as I AM. God revealed to us volumes about his divine nature in and through the revelation of his name—God is pure being with no beginning and no end; he is all perfection, etc.
What’s in a name? A lot according to Scripture!
When you add to this the fact that St. Luke uses the perfect passive participle, kekaritomene, as his “name” for Mary, we get deeper insight into the meaning of Mary’s new name. This word literally means “she who has been graced” in a completed sense. This verbal adjective, “graced,” is not just describing a simple past action. Greek has the aorist tense for that. The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed in the past resulting in a present state of being. That’s Mary’s name! So what does it tell us about Mary? Well, the average Christian is not completed in grace and in a permanent sense (see Phil. 3:8-12). But according to the angel, Mary is. You and I sin, not because of grace, but because of a lack of grace, or a lack of our cooperation with grace, in our lives. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling of the Mother of God.
One objection to the above is rooted in Eph. 2:8-9. Here, St. Paul uses the perfect tense and passive voice when he says, “For by grace you have been saved…” Why wouldn’t we then conclude all Christians are complete in salvation for all time? There seems to be an inconsistency in usage here.
Actually, the Catholic Church understands that Christians are completed in grace when they are baptized. In context, St. Paul is speaking about the initial grace of salvation in Ephesians two. The verses leading up to Eph. 2:8-9, make this clear:
… we all lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath…even when we were dead in trespasses and sins…(by grace you have been saved)” (vss. 3-5).
But there is no indication here, as there is with Mary, that the Christian is going to stay that way. In other words, Eph. 2:8-9 does not confer a name.
In fact, because of original sin, we can guarantee that though we are certainly perfected in grace through baptism, ordinarily speaking, we will not stay that way after we are baptized; that is, if we live for very long afterward (see I John 1:8)! There may be times in the lives of Christians when they are completed or perfected in grace temporarily. For example, after going to confession or receiving the Eucharist well-disposed. We let God, of course, be the judge of this, not us, as St. Paul tells us in I Cor. 4:3-4:
I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted (Gr.—justified). It is the Lord who judges me.
But only Mary is given the name “full of grace” and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary was completed.
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Being full of Grace does not mean one is sinless. One can be full of Grace AND at the same time be a sinner!
Grace is a standing with God.
I have a standing with God by the very fact i have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Therefore i am also full of Grace but yet i still have a sin nature just like Mary also was a sinner.
If being full of Grace means that person is sinless then every Christian is therefore without Sin just like Mary!
Grace is a standing with God.
I have a standing with God by the very fact i have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Therefore i am also full of Grace but yet i still have a sin nature just like Mary also was a sinner.
If being full of Grace means that person is sinless then every Christian is therefore without Sin just like Mary!
Dear Mecc99
I get that. But we have a slue of others that put salvation justification redemption in a present and future sense. So although Scripture does speak of salvation in a past sense it also speaks of salvation in an on going and future sense
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (all Scripture quotations NKJV)Since this passage speaks of salvation in the past tense, something that has been done to us, it is conceiving of salvation as a past reality.
But this is only one aspect of salvation. There is an ongoing aspect to salvation as well, as is indicated in 1st Peter 1:8-9
, which states,
he states,
If we were to offer a general definition of salvation, including its past, present, and future dimensions, we would say something like, “Salvation is a process which begins when a person first becomes a Christian, which continues through the rest of his life, and which concludes on the Last Day.” This definition allows the faithful Christian to do justice to all of the Biblical data by saying, “I have been saved; I am being saved; and I will be saved.” It embraces all three of the aspects of salvation which are present in the biblical literature.
II.Other Aspects of Salvation
In addition to salvation as a whole, Scripture also speaks of individual aspects of salvation called redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification. These share the same past, present, and future dimensions that salvation as a whole does.
A. Redemption
First of all, redemption is sometimes spoken of as a present possession of believers, which means that they were redeemed sometime in the past:
B. Forgiveness
There are numerous places in Scripture which speak of our forgiveness as something which has already occurred to us. For example:
I get that. But we have a slue of others that put salvation justification redemption in a present and future sense. So although Scripture does speak of salvation in a past sense it also speaks of salvation in an on going and future sense
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (all Scripture quotations NKJV)Since this passage speaks of salvation in the past tense, something that has been done to us, it is conceiving of salvation as a past reality.
But this is only one aspect of salvation. There is an ongoing aspect to salvation as well, as is indicated in 1st Peter 1:8-9
” . . . Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving . . . the salvation of your souls.”
The same idea of salvation as something that is taking place presently is found in the writings of the St. Paul as well, for example, in Philippians 2:12
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”
Salvation in the Bible is therefore also a process
“And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.” (Romans 13:11
)
“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1Corinthians 3:15
)
” . . . deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1Corinthians 5:5
)
These verses all speak of salvation in the future tense, as something that will happen to us in the future. Therefore, salvation has past, present, and future aspects or dimensions.
If we were to offer a general definition of salvation, including its past, present, and future dimensions, we would say something like, “Salvation is a process which begins when a person first becomes a Christian, which continues through the rest of his life, and which concludes on the Last Day.” This definition allows the faithful Christian to do justice to all of the Biblical data by saying, “I have been saved; I am being saved; and I will be saved.” It embraces all three of the aspects of salvation which are present in the biblical literature.
II.Other Aspects of Salvation
In addition to salvation as a whole, Scripture also speaks of individual aspects of salvation called redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification. These share the same past, present, and future dimensions that salvation as a whole does.
A. Redemption
First of all, redemption is sometimes spoken of as a present possession of believers, which means that they were redeemed sometime in the past:
“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7
)
“He has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” (Colossians 1:13-14
)
These verses indicate redemption was given to the Christian at the beginning of his life with God, when he first entered Christ (“in” him and “in” whom we have redemption). But there is yet a future redemption awaiting us, for we also read in Scripture:
“Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Luke 21:28
)
“And not only they, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for . . . the redemption of our body.” (Romans 8:23
)
[The Holy Spirit] “is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” (Ephesians 1:14
)
“And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30
)
Therefore, redemption, like salvation in general, is something that occurs at different points in the Christian’s life. There are no references in Scripture to redemption as a present process, but given the past and future dimensions of redemption, one may wish to infer that there is a sense in which we are “being redeemed” at the present time.
B. Forgiveness
There are numerous places in Scripture which speak of our forgiveness as something which has already occurred to us. For example:
“In Him we have . . . the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7
)
“And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ also forgave you.” (Ephesians 4:32
)
” . . . bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.” (Colossians 3:13
)
These passages show that forgiveness is something that has happened to us in the past, but there are also passages which speak of forgiveness as something which we must continue to appropriate. For example,
“And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.” (James 5:15
)
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1John 1:9
)
Therefore forgiveness, like the other aspects of salvation, is something which is both a past event and a present process. And we know that this process will not ultimately reach its fulfillment until we finally find mercy from the Lord on the Last Day, when our sins will be firmly, finally, and forever declared forgiven. This is mentioned by Paul when he says concerning Onesiphorus,As a result, there is a sense in which forgiveness (God’s mercy in this passage) is something that has yet to be realised. Therefore, forgiveness is therefore something which has past, present, and future dimensions.
Also you may want to suggest to Pope Francis that he accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior before he dies. Otherwise he will find himself in the Lake of Fire with Satan.
In fact give this Prayer to Pope Francis. Then he also can enter into Heaven with us True Children of God!
Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness. I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin. You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved. Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved. Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself. Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life. AMEN.
In fact give this Prayer to Pope Francis. Then he also can enter into Heaven with us True Children of God!
Dear God in heaven, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I acknowledge to You that I am a sinner, and I am sorry for my sins and the life that I have lived; I need your forgiveness. I believe that your only begotten Son Jesus Christ shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary and died for my sins, and I am now willing to turn from my sin. You said in Your Holy Word, Romans 10:9 that if we confess the Lord our God and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, we shall be saved. Right now I confess Jesus as the Lord of my soul. With my heart, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. This very moment I accept Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior and according to His Word, right now I am saved. Thank you Jesus for your unlimited grace which has saved me from my sins. I thank you Jesus that your grace never leads to license, but rather it always leads to repentance. Therefore Lord Jesus transform my life so that I may bring glory and honor to you alone and not to myself. Thank you Jesus for dying for me and giving me eternal life. AMEN.
Hi Mike thanks for the reply,
Whose Sacred Tradition is not private revelation.Of God or of men?
The phrase “as it is written” is the same as saying "scripture alone". You have simply made that law of interpretation to no effect through a tradition of the Catholic fathers in respect to their private interpretations.
The word of God in regard to the same spirit of faith according as it is written is the final authority in matters of faith,( the unseen). It confirms no such thing. In fact it confirms the opposite. The things of men offend Him who has no form( Eternal God.)or beginning of days .he is our supernatural God .The word supernatural means ; without a beginning as in no nature. He is the beginning of all things seen, as a work of his faith. The faithful Creator.
You would have to first distinguish between the things of men from those of God as to whose “sacred tradition”. Either they are of God, the Tradition of God, as it is written or of men, the traditions of men. After all I would think no man could serve two teaching masters as one Lord. And in the same way we are to call no man father on earth because one is our father in heaven ,not seen, we are to call no man on earth in respect to an outward form teacher for one is our Rabbi (master). Christ the promised anointing, Holy Spirit of God would come .he has come if any man has not the spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to him. They can belong to a church but belonging to a church does not make a person born again by the incorruptible seed of God’s word, as born of God .
Whose faith? The faith of the fathers generated by and through the commandments of sinful men or the faith of Christ.....This is seeing no man can serve two teaching masters? In the book of James we are infallibly,faithfully informed by God’s interpretation the bible that we must not have the faith of Christ as it works in us so that we can believe God in respect to persons which includes the fathers.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
We know that blaspheme is to attribute the work of one to another in order to usurp the glory of the author. it could be compared to plagiarism
The church is not in the place of God .turning things upside down as did the apostate Jews will not make the commandment to not have the faith of Christ generated by God in respect to the fathers. it would seem the Catholics are seeking the approval of the wrong father. One is our father in heaven.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Even the Son of man resisted being worshiped in respect to his outward temporal form .This is seeing he is identified as Emanuel ,which means; “God with us” not God was one of us .God is not a man as us and neither is there any daysman (Pope) which is a human that claims to be an infallible umpire between God and man approved by both parties.
Like I had mentioned Moses was an apostle as one sent by God. Adding another meaning to a word changes the meaning of it. We are not to add to a word it can change the direction of the gospel ,
Exodus 4:28 And Moses told Aaron all the words of the LORD who had sent him (apostle) , and all the signs which he had commanded him.
No disagreement about private revelations/interpretations they are still be approved as if they were the voice of God and God was still bring new revelations.That possibility is sealed up till the end of time with the last prophet that reveied the last interpretation of God. There is no law missing that we must rightfully divide. Those who do add with a private revelation violate the law.
What is the catholic fathers agreement in regard to how a private revelation is defined? Does it mean that every other private interpretation falls short of the Catholics private interpretations? I would think Gods revelation as His interpretation is the one we measure our private interpretations by and through.No man is an infallible teacher
The original whole deposit of the faith of God, the book of the law the Bible defines, The traditions of men like the Trinity Hypoststic Union , canon of the NT. Etc.
The apostle Moses knew God does not appoint a daysman in the form of man as the reforming authority in any generation. Or what you call apostolic succession. There is no infallible informing authority who we must believe as if they were in the place of God. Scripture informs us that we do not need any man to teach us.
I believe it is why the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in Moses was sent of God as an apostle of God to perform his will. He moved Moses to put His book of the law the Bible on “the side” of the ark and like a parable that hides the spiritual meaning form while it gives us u Gods’ understanding as His chilfren it reveled the heart of the matter. The manna that came from their rebellion by which they preferred to go back into bondage. And the rod of Arron that blossomed to show their rebellion and the tablets (as it is written, scripture alone) to represent the authority of the whole content.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the “words of this law in a book”, until they were finished,That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,Take this “book of the law”, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Deu 31:24-29
It seems clear that is was not a succession of men as that which is against us as the one reforming authority in any generation . If that was the case he would of passed it down to the apostle Joshua who was also was sent of God making him an apostle.
Whose Sacred Tradition is not private revelation.Of God or of men?
The phrase “as it is written” is the same as saying "scripture alone". You have simply made that law of interpretation to no effect through a tradition of the Catholic fathers in respect to their private interpretations.
The word of God in regard to the same spirit of faith according as it is written is the final authority in matters of faith,( the unseen). It confirms no such thing. In fact it confirms the opposite. The things of men offend Him who has no form( Eternal God.)or beginning of days .he is our supernatural God .The word supernatural means ; without a beginning as in no nature. He is the beginning of all things seen, as a work of his faith. The faithful Creator.
You would have to first distinguish between the things of men from those of God as to whose “sacred tradition”. Either they are of God, the Tradition of God, as it is written or of men, the traditions of men. After all I would think no man could serve two teaching masters as one Lord. And in the same way we are to call no man father on earth because one is our father in heaven ,not seen, we are to call no man on earth in respect to an outward form teacher for one is our Rabbi (master). Christ the promised anointing, Holy Spirit of God would come .he has come if any man has not the spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to him. They can belong to a church but belonging to a church does not make a person born again by the incorruptible seed of God’s word, as born of God .
Whose faith? The faith of the fathers generated by and through the commandments of sinful men or the faith of Christ.....This is seeing no man can serve two teaching masters? In the book of James we are infallibly,faithfully informed by God’s interpretation the bible that we must not have the faith of Christ as it works in us so that we can believe God in respect to persons which includes the fathers.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
We know that blaspheme is to attribute the work of one to another in order to usurp the glory of the author. it could be compared to plagiarism
The church is not in the place of God .turning things upside down as did the apostate Jews will not make the commandment to not have the faith of Christ generated by God in respect to the fathers. it would seem the Catholics are seeking the approval of the wrong father. One is our father in heaven.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Even the Son of man resisted being worshiped in respect to his outward temporal form .This is seeing he is identified as Emanuel ,which means; “God with us” not God was one of us .God is not a man as us and neither is there any daysman (Pope) which is a human that claims to be an infallible umpire between God and man approved by both parties.
Like I had mentioned Moses was an apostle as one sent by God. Adding another meaning to a word changes the meaning of it. We are not to add to a word it can change the direction of the gospel ,
Exodus 4:28 And Moses told Aaron all the words of the LORD who had sent him (apostle) , and all the signs which he had commanded him.
No disagreement about private revelations/interpretations they are still be approved as if they were the voice of God and God was still bring new revelations.That possibility is sealed up till the end of time with the last prophet that reveied the last interpretation of God. There is no law missing that we must rightfully divide. Those who do add with a private revelation violate the law.
What is the catholic fathers agreement in regard to how a private revelation is defined? Does it mean that every other private interpretation falls short of the Catholics private interpretations? I would think Gods revelation as His interpretation is the one we measure our private interpretations by and through.No man is an infallible teacher
The original whole deposit of the faith of God, the book of the law the Bible defines, The traditions of men like the Trinity Hypoststic Union , canon of the NT. Etc.
The apostle Moses knew God does not appoint a daysman in the form of man as the reforming authority in any generation. Or what you call apostolic succession. There is no infallible informing authority who we must believe as if they were in the place of God. Scripture informs us that we do not need any man to teach us.
I believe it is why the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in Moses was sent of God as an apostle of God to perform his will. He moved Moses to put His book of the law the Bible on “the side” of the ark and like a parable that hides the spiritual meaning form while it gives us u Gods’ understanding as His chilfren it reveled the heart of the matter. The manna that came from their rebellion by which they preferred to go back into bondage. And the rod of Arron that blossomed to show their rebellion and the tablets (as it is written, scripture alone) to represent the authority of the whole content.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the “words of this law in a book”, until they were finished,That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,Take this “book of the law”, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Deu 31:24-29
It seems clear that is was not a succession of men as that which is against us as the one reforming authority in any generation . If that was the case he would of passed it down to the apostle Joshua who was also was sent of God making him an apostle.
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Oral Tradition is a two edge sword. On the one hand the Catholics use Oral Traditions to back up their Doctrines. But since their Oral Traditions are not written down they cannot prove what these Oral Traditions said.
They think by them being Oral we cannot refute them. But yet at the same time they cannot prove this is what the Oral Traditions taught.
Receiving Salvation is a one-time event. Its our Sanctification that is over time. Over time by our good works we become more and more Sanctified.
James 2:14-17.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James is talking about our Sanctification, not Salvation.
But can we really demand that those who do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit accept this Truth? Can we really demand non-Christians to believe and receive what God says?
They think by them being Oral we cannot refute them. But yet at the same time they cannot prove this is what the Oral Traditions taught.
Receiving Salvation is a one-time event. Its our Sanctification that is over time. Over time by our good works we become more and more Sanctified.
James 2:14-17.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James is talking about our Sanctification, not Salvation.
But can we really demand that those who do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit accept this Truth? Can we really demand non-Christians to believe and receive what God says?