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U
Paul is not indicating that some Christians speak an “angelic” (ecstatic) language.
Paul is saying that even if one could ascend to a new height, and communicate on the level of angels, if he did not exercise love by speaking in an understandable fashion, he still would be nothing but noise.
The apostle’s argument does not hint of a mysterious, unintelligible utterance; in fact, it says just the opposite.
Paul uses the same technique here.
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema” (Gal. 1:8)
The point is one of emphasis, even if an angel were to preach a different gospel, there would be no validity in it, and he would fall victim to divine wrath.
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Matthew 12 22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29“Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
30“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29“Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
30“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32
No one is babbling incoherent words, they are words that are incoherent to us who are unlearned in those specific languages. These languages can go extremely far back into history, or recent, but nonetheless they are languages. This doesn't mean the language is currently on the earth or even was, it simply means it is an existent language or at least was at one point in time.
Consider, if the words being uttered need an interpretation both the tongue speaker and interpreter don't know what is being said unless the Holy Spirit grants them interpretation. The gift of tongues is quite varied in its use, it is useful for many things. Pentecost is not the be all and end all of what the gift of tongues is. It is simply a glimpse of how the gift operates. Only one aspect of a varied gift.
Consider, if the words being uttered need an interpretation both the tongue speaker and interpreter don't know what is being said unless the Holy Spirit grants them interpretation. The gift of tongues is quite varied in its use, it is useful for many things. Pentecost is not the be all and end all of what the gift of tongues is. It is simply a glimpse of how the gift operates. Only one aspect of a varied gift.
Where pray tell are the interpreters in Acts 2? What biblical evidence do you have for varied tongues?
Paul spoke several languages. When men speak in languages it is possible to have an interpreter to translate the language. the conditions at Corinth would lend themselves to many languages being spoken as they were a trade city and here someone to interpret the languages especially in the church would be necessary or no one would comprehend what was being said.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul spoke several languages. When men speak in languages it is possible to have an interpreter to translate the language. the conditions at Corinth would lend themselves to many languages being spoken as they were a trade city and here someone to interpret the languages especially in the church would be necessary or no one would comprehend what was being said.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I understand your opinion but I will have to stick with Paul saying that there are in fact languages of men and of angels. I see Paul was talking in terms of speaking in tongues in 1 Cor 13:1 not in trying to ascend to a new height and communicate on the level of angels.
It's really in the scheme of things irrelevant. The point was only made about angels have their own language is for those that try to dismiss people who speak in tongues as not being a "recognized language" and the fact is that we don't know any language of angels.
It's really in the scheme of things irrelevant. The point was only made about angels have their own language is for those that try to dismiss people who speak in tongues as not being a "recognized language" and the fact is that we don't know any language of angels.
They didn't need interpreters in Acts 2 because one of the aspect of speaking in tongues is that we speak the mighty deeds of God ( Acts 2:11 ) - the original 120 were not "giving a message" out to the listeners - they were just filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking out of their spirits.
Another aspect is that we give thanks and bless Him as can be seen in 1 Cor 14:16-17 when we speak in tongues.
Roger I realize that this whole conversation with you on tongues is completely useless as you don't believe that tongues are for today. I have to say that anyone that says that to me is like an atheist coming up to me and telling me that Jesus is not real. I know both are as real as the earth is real so in reality this conversing is a complete waste of time so we should just let it all go. We are all still brothers here if we are all in Christ.
Another aspect is that we give thanks and bless Him as can be seen in 1 Cor 14:16-17 when we speak in tongues.
Roger I realize that this whole conversation with you on tongues is completely useless as you don't believe that tongues are for today. I have to say that anyone that says that to me is like an atheist coming up to me and telling me that Jesus is not real. I know both are as real as the earth is real so in reality this conversing is a complete waste of time so we should just let it all go. We are all still brothers here if we are all in Christ.
U
But, but, but ....I was just starting to have fun!
Okay.
Can I ask really in a non-judgemental way, is not the grace of God enough and the love that is shed abroad in our hearts why the extra private prayer language.
Really does not the bible say that we have prayers that are too deep for words, not that we need different of better words.
Okay.
Can I ask really in a non-judgemental way, is not the grace of God enough and the love that is shed abroad in our hearts why the extra private prayer language.
Really does not the bible say that we have prayers that are too deep for words, not that we need different of better words.
Roger has, in past threads, said that those who speak in tongues do so with a demon.
The passage, while specifically dealing with the casting out of demons, can be applied to any work of the Holy Spirit. That is the point of the lesson. Casting out of demons and the speaking of tongues are tied together in Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Can believers commit the unpardonable sin? I tend to think not. But we can tell who does not have the Spirit, which is a sign of true salvation - 1 Cor 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
I'm not going to question Roger's salvation, that's between him and God. But the math just does not add up in his favor. Thus the warning that he will continue to ignore.
The passage, while specifically dealing with the casting out of demons, can be applied to any work of the Holy Spirit. That is the point of the lesson. Casting out of demons and the speaking of tongues are tied together in Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Can believers commit the unpardonable sin? I tend to think not. But we can tell who does not have the Spirit, which is a sign of true salvation - 1 Cor 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
I'm not going to question Roger's salvation, that's between him and God. But the math just does not add up in his favor. Thus the warning that he will continue to ignore.
If you want to know about where Roger stands on scripture, look here
http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/10189-roger-vs-scripture.html
Take what he says with a grain of salt
http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/10189-roger-vs-scripture.html
Take what he says with a grain of salt
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U
Well I do not think I am ignoring Chapter 14....I do see though where it says that tongues will cease in Chapter 13.
It seems to me that Paul is trying to settle this Corinthian group down in many ways, they were obviously misusing this gift.
Anyway, not a huge issue for me I am just learning as I go through the posts and the scripture.
I really do not see just from a rational-logical point of view the need for this gift of tongues beyond the time of the apostles.
Unless of course you believe the office of the apostle is ongoing....well that is a whole other conversation me thinks.
It seems to me that Paul is trying to settle this Corinthian group down in many ways, they were obviously misusing this gift.
Anyway, not a huge issue for me I am just learning as I go through the posts and the scripture.
I really do not see just from a rational-logical point of view the need for this gift of tongues beyond the time of the apostles.
Unless of course you believe the office of the apostle is ongoing....well that is a whole other conversation me thinks.
LOL..just starting to have fun!
One would think that the fact that our sins are completely forgiven would be enough - then there is the awesome love of God for us. Our Father loves to give good things to us - just like us natural parents like to do with our own kids.
The root word for gifts is "grace". The gifts of the Spirit are really grace gifts.
There is a personal devotional side of tongues where your spirit prays to the Lord and you speak "mysteries" to Him. What these "mysteries" are - I don't know. It could be praying out the will of God for the future. It could be praying for other people that we have no earthly idea what is happening to them I have heard many stories of people praying for missionaries and then come to find out that when these others were praying in tongues - it was the same time they got delivered or healed from a sickness. There are tons of stories like that.
Tongues also "edifies" the person - or builds up the person.
1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
The other aspect of our minds not understanding what we are praying with our spirit - is that we are praying God's will in our lives and in the lives of others. If we knew with our minds what we are praying - we would not believe it or even might rebel against it because we are not ready spiritually for things to happen as God sees us in His timeless future as we truly are in Christ.
They didn't need interpreters in Acts 2 because one of the aspect of speaking in tongues is that we speak the mighty deeds of God ( Acts 2:11 ) - the original 120 were not "giving a message" out to the listeners - they were just filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking out of their spirits.
Another aspect is that we give thanks and bless Him as can be seen in 1 Cor 14:16-17 when we speak in tongues.
Roger I realize that this whole conversation with you on tongues is completely useless as you don't believe that tongues are for today. I have to say that anyone that says that to me is like an atheist coming up to me and telling me that Jesus is not real. I know both are as real as the earth is real so in reality this conversing is a complete waste of time so we should just let it all go. We are all still brothers here if we are all in Christ.
This post was directed towards Roger as he has denied tongues are real and from the Holy Spirit for 9 months that I have seen and actually thinks they are from the devil so that is why I said that to Roger.