DECEMBER 25?

[JGIG]

what I am aware of is how hard christmass can be to those who are poor, not being able to afford to get gifts for your children, not having gifts to show your friends , the pressure of going into debt to try your best to give the gifts you cant afford to, yes I understand.

With seven children and a self-employed husband getting a practice off the ground, we've had a few years like that.

We celebrated the Birth of Christ anyway ! Because for us it IS about HIM, not about gifts.

-JGIG

 

[PinkDiamond]

With seven children and a self-employed husband getting a practice off the ground, we've had a few years like that.

We celebrated the Birth of Christ anyway ! Because for us it IS about HIM, not about gifts.

-JGIG

I couldn't agree more with your post You don't need a dime to make Christmas special. Sure, a nice holiday dinner with presents ( for families that exchange gifts) makes it more festive, but you don't need all that to truly celebrate Christmas. You are so right that the holiday is about commemorating his birth. That celebration of his life and birth is what makes Christmas, Christmas ( that and watching the original adaption of A Christmas Carol with Alistair Sim and It's a Wonderful life are also essential, haha)

 

[JGIG]

I really haven't missed it... why observe a birthday that didn't even happen on that day? and one not even mandated in anyway in biblical text to do so?

Having 'observances' ingrained on your brain from the Law ('appointed times' with ritual requirements), you AGAIN miss that Christians are not 'observing' a mandated feast with mandated requirements, but CELEBRATING the Birth of God in the flesh - come to take away the sins of the world.

Have you listened to how absolutely SATURATED Christmas Carols are with the Gospel - the Good News of reconciliation offered by God to mankind in Christ?

I wrote this in 2010 regarding the amazing music of Christmas:

Hark! Is That the Gospel I Hear?
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Posted on December 9, 2010 by JGIG​

‘Tis the season for those of you who have friends and family who are in the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Judaism/Netzarim movements or related sects to be hearing from them either why they won’t be celebrating the Birth of Christ and/or why you shouldn’t be.

I’ve written a couple of posts here at JGIG about why we celebrate the Birth of Christ. One is entitled, “Christ’s Birth – Why It’s Okay to Celebrate” , and the other,“Celebrating the Birth of Christ – The Reality is Christ . . . . (ya bone-heads) . . . . ” . That second one is a bit of a vent after receiving lots of comments that weren’t fit to post because they were so vitriolic. (It was then that JGIG had to go to moderated comments.) For a lighter take on a Christmas music classic, check out this post.

Another wonderful post regarding the celebrating the Birth of Christ from one formerly in the Hebrew Roots Movement is, “A New Relationship With Christmas” , from8thDay4Life’s blog. I’ll also provide a list of articles regarding Christmas at the end of this post.

But all that is not why this post is here.

The reason for this post is about how the Gospel is communicated through so much of the music we hear this time of year. One of my daughters and I were driving home from a doctor’s appointment the other day, and “Hark, The Herald Angels Sing!” came on the radio. We had just pulled in to a parking lot to grab a bite to eat on the way home, and I said to her, “Let’s just sit for a minute and listen to the rest of this.”

I knew the Gospel was in there, but, Oh My! The particular arrangement that was playing was beautifully orchestrated and very well sung. As I listened, there was no mistaking the Gospel there! Not only was the Birth of our Saviour celebrated in song, but the Gospel was powerfully communicated there as well.

There are many, many Christmas songs that also relay the wonder of what God has done through the Incarnation and the work of the Cross and the Resurrection. Okay, there are some silly songs, too, like “I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas” and the cultural Santa Claus and Jingle Bells stuff, but I’m thinking that most of us can differentiate between the significance and reality of the two types of songs much as we can between songs like “The Purple People Eater” and Hymns and Spiritual Songs. I’m just sayin’.

“Hark! The Herald Angels Sing” was originally written by Charles Wesley (brother of John Wesley) and the work appeared as a poem in Hymns and Sacred Poems in 1739. George Whitfield and others ‘punched it up’ a bit into the version we are more familiar with today. In 1855, English musician William H. Cummings adapted Felix Mendelssohn’s secular music from Festgesang to fit the lyrics of “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing”. Wesley envisioned the song being sung to the same tune as his song “Christ the Lord Is Risen Today”, and in some hymnals, that melody is included along with the more popular version (source).

I found the version on YouTube that we heard the other day on the radio. I hope you’re as blessed by it and other songs that lift high the Name of Jesus and preach the Gospel that permeate the airwaves now as at no other time of the year. There are those who come to know Him and follow Him in part through songs such as this:
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[video=youtube;XXvFqVt5TXU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvFqVt5TXU[/video]​

-JGIG

 

[Amazing-Grace]

I believe that Christ died to free us from the bondage of rules and regulations and if we get our hearts's right and do what is in our hearts and for the right reasons I don't believe we will be condemned for it. I celebrate Christmas for the right reasons as I suspect do everyone else posting here. It's all about the birth of Christ and nothing to do with paganism or secular things.

 

[PinkDiamond]

None of our worship of Christ should be mandated. If we have a relationship and love for Christ then it is only natural that we will want to honor him and commemorate his life. It makes sense that the two biggest days on our calendar should be holidays to commemorate his birth and death. I don't think the Bible needs to tell us to celebrate Christ's life. I'd add that in my view the 25th belongs to God not Saturn. Saturn is a false God and has no claim or power over any day. God created the world, and if we choose to worship him on any of the 365 days of the year that is fitting. Perhaps initially the blending of winter solstice and Christ's birth could have had damaging effects on weaker Christians at the time. There may have been a pull to return to their idolatry or perhaps it was a compromise for some that had a desire to retain some of their pagan rituals. I will concede that perhaps for Christians at that time that it may have been sinful for them to partake in this mixed celebration ( especially if they had celebrated the solstice prior to their conversion). You have to be able to do everything with a clear conscience towards God. This is not different from Gentiles who could not eat meat sacrificed to Idols. Paul could do it and not sin, but for gentile Christians coming from a culture of idolatry and pagan feasts it was a stumbling block.

Our society is so far removed from pagan beliefs and worship of false gods that the temptation to worship Saturn is practically nonexistent. Add to that, most people don't even know anything about the origins of winter solstice or Saturn. Most people probably think you are referring to the planet and not the Roman god, lol. Today, none of us are being tempted into idolatry and the worship of false gods. The 25th is now so synonymous with the celebration of Christ's birth that secular society is trying to remove any spiritual significance from the day. It's no longer Saturn's day but Christ's day. I think it's a positive that these false gods have been forgotten Also, I'd like to add that celebrating corporately is special. Sure, we could just observe Christ's life everyday and should. Having set holidays don't take away from that. It's nice to know that Christians all around the world are devoting these days to worship Christ.

Really, most people don't object to celebrating Thanksgiving or Independence Day ( two holidays with no spiritual significance). Neither of these holidays are mentioned in Scripture. If it's okay to have holidays why is it such a no- no to observe Christmas and Easter? We've already established that many people who do observe these holidays don't exchange gifts, put up a tree or dye eggs, etc. The argument about pagan rituals being blended into our Christmas traditions may have some merit or validity but I think the argument against having such a day set aside to worship Christ is weak.

 

[Connock]

Since we don't know the date then there is no need to change it.

Hypothetically, what if we were able to find out the exact date of Jesus' birth? (beyond a reasonable doubt) Would people then move the celebration to that different day? Thoughts?

 

[disciplemike]

Hypothetically, what if we were able to find out the exact date of Jesus' birth? (beyond a reasonable doubt) Would people then move the celebration to that different day? Thoughts?

oddly enough, Christ told us to have a memorial for His death, not His birth.
we were tricked.

and I will list here all the times it mentions the young church celebrating His birth:
(not including His actual birth)

1.

 

[disciplemike]

also, oddly enough, in the KJV, as far as I can tell, there are only two people mentioned who celebrated the anniversary of their birth:

Pharaoh
King Herod

 

[melita916]

.... le sigh

 

[Yonah]

careful disciplemike, we don't want to confuse with the truth. dust and pearls bro, dust and pearls

 

[Utah]

With seven children and a self-employed husband getting a practice off the ground, we've had a few years like that.

We celebrated the Birth of Christ anyway ! Because for us it IS about HIM, not about gifts.

-JGIG

Reminds me of Stevie Wonder's, I Wish:

Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring ...

 

[disciplemike]

Reminds me of Stevie Wonder's, I Wish:

Looking back on when I
Was a little nappy headed boy
Then my only worry
Was for Christmas what would be my toy
Even though we sometimes
Would not get a thing
We were happy with the
Joy the day would bring ...

yes, sorta sounds like the modern "church" = Stevie Wonder looking back.

 

[Utah]

careful disciplemike, we don't want to confuse with the truth. dust and pearls bro, dust and pearls

You think God is well pleased by you encouraging others not to celebrate the birth of His Son? Rhetorical question.

 

[Utah]

yes, sorta sounds like the modern "church" = Stevie Wonder looking back.

Sounds like Stevie was spot on accurate with his analysis regarding the true essence of celebrating Christ's birth.

 

[Karraster]

It's funny that you ask this question. This has been on my mind a lot now that the season is approaching. I have come to the decision that while many believe we are honoring the birth of Christ on that day, but for me personally it does not. Christ's arrival was a gift from God but I can best celebrate Jesus Christ our Lord by honoring the Father and doing what He asks of me by demonstrating that shiny decorations and material goods have no value in the Kingdom of the Lord. That's a tall order as it goes against the traditions we have in our family but I love my God above all others and this year plan to respect His wishes. As a business owner, I have yet to resolve this dilemma but it is a sacrifice I realize I must make. His reward is much more valuable than any amount of money I could make on earth.

I know some of what you're up against. Thankfully, our Creator always makes a way for us when we are doing our best to do His will. For me, the business part wasn't as hard to navigate as the family traditions..and with young grandchildren. It was about 4 years ago, He opened my eyes to the truth about Dec. 25. Carefully, truthfully, I told my grown children and let them decide how to proceed without me. Worst of it, dissappointing them. As for anything else I've never looked back. I hope in time they realize following Messiah is not all fun and games. It's serious. It was about time I took it serious.

The history of that day is most disturbing, and I felt such remorse for not knowing about it sooner, but I was completely ignorant in that regard. I was broken hearted, truly. It's been said, "A single truth dispells a thousand lies", and I couldn't agree more. The adversary is hiding Almighty behind a mountain of lies. Christmas replaces the appointments with YHVH, and makes a mockery of His instructions..like, it doesn't matter all that much, really, how we decide to worship Him because He knows our heart. Well, He has said plainly how He wants to be worshiped and warns us not to do worship as pagans do and say we're doing it for Him. Imagine if your spouse celebrated your birthday on their ex-girl/boyfriend's birthday, and you told them it made you feel terrible, and they laughed and said, what does it matter? Yet without fail, year after year, they kept on doing it? Messiah said regarding tradition and doing the Father's will~you cannot do both.

I've no right to judge anybody who does christmas, and I don't. I think we're all decieved in some way. Only He can open eyes and ears, and I reckon it's all in His hands. I pray for us all, that we be not decieved.

 

[Amazing-Grace]

Hypothetically, what if we were able to find out the exact date of Jesus' birth? (beyond a reasonable doubt) Would people then move the celebration to that different day? Thoughts?

I believe Christians would - I surely would.

 

[Connock]

I believe Christians would - I surely would.

It would be nice to ditch the crass commercialism and dark pagan roots and just start over, getting it right. Even if 99% of the world stuck with Santa Claus, there would still be a small remnant, like the 7,000 (Ro 11:4) who would jump at the chance to be faithful to the true date.

God is very picky about observing appointed times (Mo'ed'im). Dismiss this at your peril.

The comment above about celebrating your spouse's birthday on your ex's birthdate, and then claiming its OK because it doesn't really matter anyway is painfully spot on. I mean who do we think we are?

 

[JaumeJ]

Why are songs such sang for the celebration in spirit and truth?

God rest ye merry gentlemen
Let nothing ye dismay.
Remember Christ our Savior
Was born upon this day.

To save the world from sin and strife
And lead us on our way.
Oh tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and joy,
Oh tidings of comfort and joy.

Does this sound pagan? Listen tot he words of the true carols giving all glory to Jesus Christ. Stop looking for baby snakes in doves' nests.

 

[RickyZ]

Something once dedicated to a false god now glorifies the true God. That alone is reason to celebrate.

 

[disciplemike]

Something once dedicated to a false god now glorifies the true God. That alone is reason to celebrate.

Ricky, I don't think so.
God is not glorified when we ignore what He says and do things our own way, even if we feel all warm and fuzzy about it.
In my opinion, sir. and I think Scripture verifies this particular opinion.