DECEMBER 25?

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JGIG said:
That is a real mark of the Law-keeping movements - they go into bodies of believers to bring them under Law, not to the Lost to minister the love and grace of Christ to them and bring the Good News of His Work to them.

-JGIG
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Thats because the lost will have nothing to do with them. The lost thinks they are Holier than thou hypocrites, self righteous, Better than others, etc etc.

I find it amazing the lost did not call Jesus and his followers this, They were just mad they they were told they needed a sinner, It was the religious who attacked Jesus and his followers. and called them sinners.

Seems nothing has changed has it? 2000 years later. The religious are still calling Jesus followers sinners.
 
JGIG said:
But ask them if they think they're Israel . . .


-JGIG
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There does seem to be division between the circumcision ( which is Israel ) and the uncircumcision which are the gentiles that are in the Lord. Both are in the Lord after they receive Christ by grace through faith and both groups become a new creation.


Galatians 6:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

 
KohenMatt said:
I, too have experience a similar type of church split where I am a pastor. But as you mentioned, while there are some in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots crowd that make that sad decision to head back into Judaism, I'm sure you several folks that were just as passionate about God, Jesus and His sacrifice as anyone.

It took our church a few years to overcome a couple of different stigmas. 1) Even though there were folks who left to become more Judaic, our church was not. And 2)While we didn't embrace the full-on Judaism type of conversion, we still believed and preached a Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it.

That's my point. I don't think it's fair to label all Messianic/Hebrew Roots people as ones preaching heresy and denying the faith. For every wacky and erroneous doctrine you can find in the HRM movement, you can find just as many in traditional Christian denomination. But in both cases, it's not correct to identify the entire denomination by those who have a false doctrine of the Gospel.
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There is no 'Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it'.

The Gospel teaches that the believer is DEAD to the Law, and ALIVE in Christ, and repeats that those who are joined to Christ are released from the Law.

It's all in Romans 7-10, Gal. 2, Eph. 2 , folks!





-JGIG
 
KohenMatt said:
I can see where you're going with the math, but there are a couple of things to think about (which is dangerous for you apparently;))

You're right that the dates of Sukkot vary from year to year, which is why the 9 months math isn't a consistent truth. The dates of Sukkot vary to the differences between Hebrew and Greek based calendars. At the time of the Torah, God's calendar was based on a Hebrew type of lunar calendar which was determined by the New Moons. Here in Colorado, we saw the New Moon last Sunday night (when the Feast of Trumpets was scheduled to start.)

And your last comment is the truest; having a thandkulness for the salvation of the Lord.
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oh, man, me thinking is far less dangerous than actually trying to express it.

i wasn't talking about moons or calendars. i was talking about pregnancy. ;)
 
It is self-evident that any person who has committed hamself to Jesus Christ has also subjected himself to Jesus Christ as King.
It would benefit all to read and understand the followin gquote from the Word, from Isaiah.

"Bethlehem . . . out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting"


disciplemike said:
God wants His people to return to His Kingdom - you know, where the King is in charge!
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melita916 said:
my mom used to have a porcelain unicorn on our coffee table. someone was visiting, and he saw the unicorn. he went on saying she shouldn't have that because unicorns are mystical and whatnots. so she said, "well... i have no problem with it. it was a gift from someone, but if it bothers you, i can chop off the horn and it will just be a horse." he said it wasn't necessary.
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92271-home-alone-scared-kevin-gif-Ma-Erb5.gif
 
Anyone needing to know the definition of guote please consult the private dictionary compiled by JaumeJ i& Co., ltd.


JaumeJ said:
It is self-evident that any person who has committed hamself to Jesus Christ has also subjected himself to Jesus Christ as King.
It would benefit all to read and understand the followin gquote from the Word, from Isaiah.

"Bethlehem . . . out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting"
Click to expand...
 
my mom used to have a porcelain unicorn on our coffee table. someone was visiting, and he saw the unicorn. he went on saying she shouldn't have that because unicorns are mystical and whatnots. so she said, "well... i have no problem with it. it was a gift from someone,but if it bothers you, i can chop off the horn and it will just be a horse." he said it wasn't necessary.

As long as no one is bowing down to it or worshippingit, it remains an oranament...........
 
The quote is from Micah 5:2.............here it is with numbers for those who require them.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.


JaumeJ said:
It is self-evident that any person who has committed hamself to Jesus Christ has also subjected himself to Jesus Christ as King.
It would benefit all to read and understand the followin gquote from the Word, from Isaiah.

"Bethlehem . . . out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting"
Click to expand...
 
KohenMatt said:
I, too have experience a similar type of church split where I am a pastor. But as you mentioned, while there are some in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots crowd that make that sad decision to head back into Judaism, I'm sure you several folks that were just as passionate about God, Jesus and His sacrifice as anyone.

It took our church a few years to overcome a couple of different stigmas. 1) Even though there were folks who left to become more Judaic, our church was not. And 2)While we didn't embrace the full-on Judaism type of conversion, we still believed and preached a Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it.

That's my point. I don't think it's fair to label all Messianic/Hebrew Roots people as ones preaching heresy and denying the faith. For every wacky and erroneous doctrine you can find in the HRM movement, you can find just as many in traditional Christian denomination. But in both cases, it's not correct to identify the entire denomination by those who have a false doctrine of the Gospel.
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thanks for the response :)

well, Christianity certainly has all kinds of groups and splits and denoms...sadly but sometimes good...

I don't think it's about 'fair' but I understand what you mean by that and would concur in that respect

however, this we still believed and preached a Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it
would be what I have a prob with

thanks
 
JGIG said:
That is a real mark of the Law-keeping movements - they go into bodies of believers to bring them under Law, not to the Lost to minister the love and grace of Christ to them and bring the Good News of His Work to them.

-JGIG
Click to expand...


when I stated the same, Mike liked the post

that's why he is here...not sure why he is allowed to continue and nothing against him personally

other than learning more about these sects, which is ok for some of us and might hurt others who do not have the best foundation, I don't know why he is allowed to post thread after thread after thread

not my dept, but my observation
 
LaurenTM said:
thanks for the response :)

however, this we still believed and preached a Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it
would be what I have a prob with

thanks
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What I mean is that obedience to anything in Scripture has to be done in it's proper context to the Gospel. The Gospel says you're saved by grace through faith. This is the most important thing in all of Scripture.

So how do we respond to that? We do whatever Scripture tells us to do; ANY scripture, Old or New. But any obedience has to be done with the Gospel as the foundation.
 
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