H
well said bro! Some short videos in support of that.
https://youtu.be/NtQa_16Fe5s
https://youtu.be/LeNWTpIQVZk
https://youtu.be/NtQa_16Fe5s
https://youtu.be/LeNWTpIQVZk
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It would be easier to just say we don't get it. Not really.
Faith says we were perfected the moment we were saved. Complete and whole before God at that moment.
But then life happens. Your white garment gets dust and mud all over it. How can I, or anyone, consider me perfect when my garments are a mess?
Well faith doesn't look at the outwardly appearance. That is why the bible states we walk by faith, not by sight.
What are we sanctified by? What are we atoned by? How are we perfected?
If these things were from us we would understand much better. But none of these things can we produce. So we have to rely on our faith that it is the Lord Jesus Christ that does the work.
And if He has done the Work do you consider that work only half done? Or would you more likely consider your faith and sight to maybe not be full?
I don't think anyone with faith or even a little sight could say that the Blood of the Lamb only atones for half of your sin and you are on the hook for the rest. If you think that the Blood of the Lamb is not sufficient to continually cleanse you and the Lord Jesus Christ is not constantly interceding for you then you need to ask for more wisdom, more knowledge, more revelation and more faith.
The problem is that our knowledge hasn't caught up to our faith. We rely too much on our logic and not our faith. I include myself in this problem, in case someone thinks I am above this... I wish...
I don't know exactly how the Blood of the Lamb cleanses us of all sins. I just know that no condemnation can stand before that Blood.
I don't know exactly how the Lord constantly intercedes for us. I just know that my standing before Him depends completely on Him.
So I have no choice but to look with the eyes of faith. My mind and my logic don't understand. But by faith I see.
Faith says we were perfected the moment we were saved. Complete and whole before God at that moment.
But then life happens. Your white garment gets dust and mud all over it. How can I, or anyone, consider me perfect when my garments are a mess?
Well faith doesn't look at the outwardly appearance. That is why the bible states we walk by faith, not by sight.
What are we sanctified by? What are we atoned by? How are we perfected?
If these things were from us we would understand much better. But none of these things can we produce. So we have to rely on our faith that it is the Lord Jesus Christ that does the work.
And if He has done the Work do you consider that work only half done? Or would you more likely consider your faith and sight to maybe not be full?
I don't think anyone with faith or even a little sight could say that the Blood of the Lamb only atones for half of your sin and you are on the hook for the rest. If you think that the Blood of the Lamb is not sufficient to continually cleanse you and the Lord Jesus Christ is not constantly interceding for you then you need to ask for more wisdom, more knowledge, more revelation and more faith.
The problem is that our knowledge hasn't caught up to our faith. We rely too much on our logic and not our faith. I include myself in this problem, in case someone thinks I am above this... I wish...
I don't know exactly how the Blood of the Lamb cleanses us of all sins. I just know that no condemnation can stand before that Blood.
I don't know exactly how the Lord constantly intercedes for us. I just know that my standing before Him depends completely on Him.
So I have no choice but to look with the eyes of faith. My mind and my logic don't understand. But by faith I see.
H
The reason why you do not see that His blood(referring to His work) cleaned your heart is bc you still see yourself apart from Christ. you have not recon the fact that you are one with Christ, in perfect union.
Now tell me, how can someone who is not clean sit on the throne of God?
The Word of God doesn't say that only those whose heart are clean are sited in heavenly places in Christ! every believer has been made one with Christ in an inseperable uonion; a union wherein, what happened to Christ equally happened to the believer! Where He is, is where we are; what He is, is what we are.
However note that we are all what Christ is and not who He is! an earthly example; your boilogical son is all what you are and not who you are
Now tell me, how can someone who is not clean sit on the throne of God?
The Word of God doesn't say that only those whose heart are clean are sited in heavenly places in Christ! every believer has been made one with Christ in an inseperable uonion; a union wherein, what happened to Christ equally happened to the believer! Where He is, is where we are; what He is, is what we are.
However note that we are all what Christ is and not who He is! an earthly example; your boilogical son is all what you are and not who you are
Take a look at what scripture has to say about the heart and not what our own mind tells us. I realize that this is different from what I was taught in my church upbringing and what "voices" that speak to me but those are not what I live by.
I think what is happening is that you are seeing the works of the flesh in your life and you think it's the real you. But it isn't. It's a deception.
Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart!
I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him. In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".
We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now. It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.
We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.
I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart. We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the Heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13
The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23
Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.
The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )
Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.
Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.
Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.
2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.
Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
God has cleansed our hearts by faith.
Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
We love from our hearts now as it is pure.
1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )
1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.
We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.
the problem with theory it asks you to decide. you have free will. and have a choice in all things, that you believe.
however, what did jesus save you from, the punishment of the jewish law, or the punishment that god gave adam and eve. ie certain death.
paul has addressed the issue, in roman 5.v 12 - 21 he has also was present at acts 15.
if your going to follow religions answer to being a religion. you are going to miss the mark, to what the bible said.
simple logic would ask you , how can you repent from a law, you don t have.
ware did you get or how did you get a correct standing with god. if your still clinging to law. gal 5v1-4
then there is is no chance, you will see spiritually to the meaning, the holy spirit teachings though the scriptures. etc
however, what did jesus save you from, the punishment of the jewish law, or the punishment that god gave adam and eve. ie certain death.
paul has addressed the issue, in roman 5.v 12 - 21 he has also was present at acts 15.
if your going to follow religions answer to being a religion. you are going to miss the mark, to what the bible said.
simple logic would ask you , how can you repent from a law, you don t have.
ware did you get or how did you get a correct standing with god. if your still clinging to law. gal 5v1-4
then there is is no chance, you will see spiritually to the meaning, the holy spirit teachings though the scriptures. etc
I don't see myself as apart from Him. It would be impossible for me to see it like that because He lives inside me and communes with me and speaks to me often. But neither do I think I am perfect. I see grave imperfections in myself all the time. I never love Him as worthily as He deserves. I often don't trust Him completely even WHILE I am saying that I do! I am so bad that I am even capable of thinking I am being humble when I'm doing no such thing. But He loves me and He died for me so I don't have to face the just requirement that I die, so He knows all about these things and He paid my price. And all He asks is that I believe and trust Him no matter how awful or dire my circumstance may look at times. So what do I do? I worry and fret, complain about my circumstance, lose my peace, insist that He ISN'T guiding my steps, defend myself, and all other manner of awful things. To add to my wickedness by saying I am perfect would be to just throw more wood on the fire.
Maybe it is different for you. Maybe the thing that keeps you humble is to say that you are perfect and holy and completely surrendered to His will. That does not work for me, probably because I am much more awful than you and have a much bigger problem with presumption and pride and arrogance. The thing that keeps me humble is to see how awful I am and to see that I am completely lost without Him and to see that I need His help every second against these enemies of His that are in me.
So maybe those with a stronger self love and self will and arrogance need to see these things in them to keep them humble and trusting in Him for deliverance from them and those who have been perfected more than me need to know they are perfect and completely holy. I mean...I can only go the way He takes me. I can't go the way He takes you. All I can say is that I don't see myself as apart from Him as you said. In fact, I marvel and am in shock every day that He would not give up on me because of my wickedness. I sometimes have no idea why He would want me or why He loves me. But He does, and He never abandons me. Even over all the years that I tried so hard to be good instead of seeing that I can't do it and have to depend on Him to heal my sicknesses, He STILL never abandoned me. I was like an animal with its foot caught in a trap, snapping and snarling and laboring to free myself and I am sure it caused Him pain to know that I just needed to stop laboring and trust Him and He could free me in a second, but I wasn't ready to hear Him. He has begun to give me some victory over my enemies now. But it would be a lie for me to say that I am perfect and completely holy. I don't think it would be a good thing to take someone such as myself and try to convince me I am perfect. I think it would do me harm if you could get me to believe it. HE is perfect. No one could ever get me to disbelieve that. But neither could they get me to believe I am perfect.
Maybe it is different for you. Maybe the thing that keeps you humble is to say that you are perfect and holy and completely surrendered to His will. That does not work for me, probably because I am much more awful than you and have a much bigger problem with presumption and pride and arrogance. The thing that keeps me humble is to see how awful I am and to see that I am completely lost without Him and to see that I need His help every second against these enemies of His that are in me.
So maybe those with a stronger self love and self will and arrogance need to see these things in them to keep them humble and trusting in Him for deliverance from them and those who have been perfected more than me need to know they are perfect and completely holy. I mean...I can only go the way He takes me. I can't go the way He takes you. All I can say is that I don't see myself as apart from Him as you said. In fact, I marvel and am in shock every day that He would not give up on me because of my wickedness. I sometimes have no idea why He would want me or why He loves me. But He does, and He never abandons me. Even over all the years that I tried so hard to be good instead of seeing that I can't do it and have to depend on Him to heal my sicknesses, He STILL never abandoned me. I was like an animal with its foot caught in a trap, snapping and snarling and laboring to free myself and I am sure it caused Him pain to know that I just needed to stop laboring and trust Him and He could free me in a second, but I wasn't ready to hear Him. He has begun to give me some victory over my enemies now. But it would be a lie for me to say that I am perfect and completely holy. I don't think it would be a good thing to take someone such as myself and try to convince me I am perfect. I think it would do me harm if you could get me to believe it. HE is perfect. No one could ever get me to disbelieve that. But neither could they get me to believe I am perfect.
I just can't get my mind off of this.
I understand: have mercy on me Lord, a sinner.
But I cannot wrap my mind around: Thank you Lord that I am perfect and holy.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm really trying to understand how He has led me so differently than some others. I keep coming to the conclusion that I must not be seeing something because He has not perfected me as much as others yet.
I understand: have mercy on me Lord, a sinner.
But I cannot wrap my mind around: Thank you Lord that I am perfect and holy.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm really trying to understand how He has led me so differently than some others. I keep coming to the conclusion that I must not be seeing something because He has not perfected me as much as others yet.
==========================================================
what an awesome, humble, honest, post! so rare to see these days...
upon conversion our Father immediately forgives all of our 'past sins', this is what scripture tells us,
and then we begin on our new journey of overcoming and we are given the confidence that our Christ
is sitting on the right hand of our Heavenly Father, interceding for us as we are learning how to find our
new feet that are walking on our new journey with all of our past forgiven and forgotten by Him -
He accepts our heart-felt repentance on this new Holy Path, if it is real and honest, even if we fail Him
along the way He is leading us -
He lovingly accepts the sorrow we experience when we fail as we are learning, thus He honors our
repentance and we grow stronger and stronger into the 'new-man' that He dearly loves,
He must take great pleasure in our desire to love and serve Him the very best that we can, because
we can't help but to love Him more and more for His sacrifice and Holy thoughts and ways...
we will fail Him as we learn our new ways, for the world has done us great harm and implanted many
things inside of us that our Father will no longer tolerate as our hearts now belong to Him.
but now we can go to our Intercessor, our Saviour in 'repentance' as we begin to clean-house
and live for Him and Him alone -
because our hearts now belong to Christ through conversion, our hope, trust, assurance, faith, begin to
grow as we put off our 'old-man', which we will naturally come to abhor, and we begin our brand new life
of living in His precious Love and forgiveness, an awesome state of Grace, that we must learn to accept.
This is a life-time of learning and growing, along with the gift of using this precious Faith that is such a
miracle and at our age it still takes our breaths away as His Love continues to grow and grow, as does
our love for Him ever continues to grow and grow...
what an awesome, humble, honest, post! so rare to see these days...
upon conversion our Father immediately forgives all of our 'past sins', this is what scripture tells us,
and then we begin on our new journey of overcoming and we are given the confidence that our Christ
is sitting on the right hand of our Heavenly Father, interceding for us as we are learning how to find our
new feet that are walking on our new journey with all of our past forgiven and forgotten by Him -
He accepts our heart-felt repentance on this new Holy Path, if it is real and honest, even if we fail Him
along the way He is leading us -
He lovingly accepts the sorrow we experience when we fail as we are learning, thus He honors our
repentance and we grow stronger and stronger into the 'new-man' that He dearly loves,
He must take great pleasure in our desire to love and serve Him the very best that we can, because
we can't help but to love Him more and more for His sacrifice and Holy thoughts and ways...
we will fail Him as we learn our new ways, for the world has done us great harm and implanted many
things inside of us that our Father will no longer tolerate as our hearts now belong to Him.
but now we can go to our Intercessor, our Saviour in 'repentance' as we begin to clean-house
and live for Him and Him alone -
because our hearts now belong to Christ through conversion, our hope, trust, assurance, faith, begin to
grow as we put off our 'old-man', which we will naturally come to abhor, and we begin our brand new life
of living in His precious Love and forgiveness, an awesome state of Grace, that we must learn to accept.
This is a life-time of learning and growing, along with the gift of using this precious Faith that is such a
miracle and at our age it still takes our breaths away as His Love continues to grow and grow, as does
our love for Him ever continues to grow and grow...
E
When we come to Jesus Christ it is only our inner man or our spirit that is immediately made perfect, not our flesh or our soul[mind, will, emotions, intellect, passions]
We are not ever going to be 100% sinless in the flesh or soul....There may be certain SIN you never chose to be beset by, but we will never be Sinless or perfect in the flesh or soul....
We are not ever going to be 100% sinless in the flesh or soul....There may be certain SIN you never chose to be beset by, but we will never be Sinless or perfect in the flesh or soul....
Yes a beautiful post, Thank you for sharing it with us..
It is true that every Rose has it's thorn..
2 Corinthians 12:KJV
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
John 19:KJV
2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
It is true that every Rose has it's thorn..
2 Corinthians 12:KJV
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
John 19:KJV
2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
J
It is impossible to know by outward perception where a person is. Some may be closer than we think. Some of us may be further away than we think.
J.A. MCCORMICK – Official Site
J.A. MCCORMICK – Official Site
I always enjoy talking with you but I do not find practical help very often by your explanations. I can't ever quite comprehend what you are saying. Maybe one day I will. 
If you don't see any problems, you either don't have a problem or something something something
That's half a thought.
I had this morning a encouraging passage from colossians 3,1-4
If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall you also appear with him in glory.
Our real nature is hid in Christ, till he appears! Then our real new natur will appear with him in glory! And it is amazing how it will be then. We cant imagine now!
If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall you also appear with him in glory.
Our real nature is hid in Christ, till he appears! Then our real new natur will appear with him in glory! And it is amazing how it will be then. We cant imagine now!