Calvinism - Total Depravity

[Depleted]

Let me expand on some conversations I have had with EG.

He believes in OSAS, and if you do not, you show you are not saved.
He would continually tell me that I was trying to save myself by being good rather than
accepting Christs sacrifice on the cross that opened me up to righteousness.

Strangely this is what I believe, but I am told I am lying. Now I have declared my faith
in my blog at length, yet because I am not a follower of OSAS I must be lying. How is it
that something so fundamental to my spiritual experience is undermined by me not agreeing
with OSAS. Maybe it is rather the opposite, a group believe OSAS is the cornerstone of defining
who is truly saved and who are faking, and their mission is to distinguish between the two.

Now the real strategy is emotional bombing, flipping between rejection and antagonism, and
acceptance and openness, this is not the way to Christ or truth, just manipulation.

And the hook is freedom from legalism, by no rules acceptance. Now Christ does accept us but
on the basis of we walk after Him because we love Him and have made love a home in out hearts.

So you can see this is not a simple story, and is one of importance. But the importance is on feeding
on failure, and reassurance of Christ love while never truly walking in it, or having the Lord heal you
within. So it becomes a fake, but turns people into destructive aggressive individuals against the word
of God and the people of the Kingdom.

If you and EG want to fight, leave it that the two of you are fighting. Not every fight is a teaching moment. And, I'm picky about who I learn from anyway. (i.e. Stop pretending this is anything but you and EG disagreeing.)

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 6:37　 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


　

~
Joh 6:27　 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

There's just too many promises that speak of eternal salvation and this being the work of God through Holy Spirit, not of us.

Am not Calvinist...I just believe His Word.

 

[StanJ]

Joh 6:37　 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:27　 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

There's just too many promises that speak of eternal salvation and this being the work of God through Holy Spirit, not of us.

Am not Calvinist...I just believe His Word.

What about all the other verses in John 6...do you believe them as well?

[FONT=&quot]28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

We are obliged to believe all of God's word not just individual scriptures that suit our doctrinal point of view. We either believe that it is all inspired of God and that God's word doesn't contradict itself or we don't. If it appears to contradict itself then we have to learn why it looks that way and what it is really saying.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Joh 6:37　 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


　

~
Joh 6:27　 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

There's just too many promises that speak of eternal salvation and this being the work of God through Holy Spirit, not of us.

Am not Calvinist...I just believe His Word.

Just to let you know. You do not have to be calvanist, or follow his teachings about predestination to agree with this..

 

[88]

We are totally depraved----- the part I love to focus on is free will----- we choose to accept God's invitation----God' s pre-knowledge doesn' t take that away...Grace and Peace

 

[StanJ]

Just to let you know. You do not have to be calvanist, or follow his teachings about predestination to agree with this..

If you follow ANY teachings of Calvin you're a calvinist.

 

[StanJ]

We are totally depraved----- the part I love to focus on is free will----- we choose to accept God's invitation----God' s pre-knowledge doesn' t take that away...Grace and Peace

Where does the bible teach we are totally depraved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you follow ANY teachings of Calvin you're a calvinist.

Thats like saying because I believe in the trinity I am catholic.

being a christian denomination or person. We will ALL have aspects of agreement with one or two doctrines. It does not make us followers of that person.

 

[Grandpa]

Where does the bible teach we are totally depraved?

Matthew 19:17 [FONT=&quot]And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[/FONT]

 

[StanJ]

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The Greek word used is ἀγαθός (agathos), which connotes good, profitable, generous, upright, virtuous. Depraved means morally corrupt or Wicked. I'm pretty sure people who aren't good, profitable, generous, upright, or virtuous, can to be considered morally corrupt or wicked unless you force your view of total depravity on the words of scripture.

 

[StanJ]

Thats like saying because I believe in the trinity I am catholic.
being a christian denomination or person. We will ALL have aspects of agreement with one or two doctrines. It does not make us followers of that person.

The concept of the Trinity did not come out of the Catholic Church, the concept of the Trinity is in scripture clearly and was accepted as a doctrinal issues before the Catholic church was started. Ex-catholic here.
Speaking of Catholics, John Calvin came out of the Catholic Church and trust me many of his doctrines find their way back into Catholic Doctrine. if you don't want to be polluted by false doctrine then don't listen to one thing the polluter is teaching. None of Calvin's teachings bear out in the scripture.

 

[Dino246]

If you follow ANY teachings of Calvin you're a calvinist.

This is a two-fold fallacy. It is part genetic and part guilt by association. As eternally_grateful noted, just because you agree with someone's perspective in one case doesn't mean that you are their follower, or that you believe everything they say. Case in point; I 'liked' your previous post, but I don't like this one. So am I a "StanJ-ist" or not?

In a similar vein of logic, there are many people who follow some of the teachings of Christ. Does that make them Christians? Obviously not!

 

[tourist]

This is a two-fold fallacy. It is part genetic and part guilt by association. As eternally_grateful noted, just because you agree with someone's perspective in one case doesn't mean that you are their follower, or that you believe everything they say. Case in point; I 'liked' your previous post, but I don't like this one. So am I a "StanJ-ist" or not?

In a similar vein of logic, there are many people who follow some of the teachings of Christ. Does that make them Christians? Obviously not!

I don't believe that disliking a post would make one a Satanist.

 

[StanJ]

This is a two-fold fallacy. It is part genetic and part guilt by association. As eternally_grateful noted, just because you agree with someone's perspective in one case doesn't mean that you are their follower, or that you believe everything they say. Case in point; I 'liked' your previous post, but I don't like this one. So am I a "StanJ-ist" or not?

In a similar vein of logic, there are many people who follow some of the teachings of Christ. Does that make them Christians? Obviously not!

Calvinism is fallacy and it's a 5 point one. The Bible admonishes us to avoid false teachers because of their false teachings not accept what we like and avoid the rest. There is a reason we are told to test all spirits and to rightly divide the word of Truth. most teachers don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ Our Savior they believe their own inner monologue as they perceive it and look 4 scripture to fit into it. That is called eisegesis, and is not a sound hermeneutical process. I've never encountered a calvinist who didn't learn the doctrine 1st and scripture 2nd. The gospel that Paul preached was not of human origin, the gospel that Calvin preached was indeed of human origin.
I want people to see the gospel that is not of human origin in what I say, not see me.

 

[Dino246]

Calvinism is fallacy and it's a 5 point one. The Bible admonishes us to avoid false teachers...
I want people to see the gospel that is not of human origin in what I say, not see me.

"Fallacy" does not mean "falsehood". A fallacy is a logical error, not a factual error. Typically a fallacy does not make the position false; rather, it undermines or invalidates an argument made in favour of the position.

I agree that we should follow the true gospel, not those of human origin. I'm not a proponent of Calvinism, but I do try to bring clarity and truth where there is misunderstanding. Misrepresenting a viewpoint doesn't help to refute it, regardless of whether it is true or false.

 

[StanJ]

"Fallacy" does not mean "falsehood". A fallacy is a logical error, not a factual error. Typically a fallacy does not make the position false; rather, it undermines or invalidates an argument made in favour of the position.
I agree that we should follow the true gospel, not those of human origin. I'm not a proponent of Calvinism, but I do try to bring clarity and truth where there is misunderstanding. Misrepresenting a viewpoint doesn't help to refute it, regardless of whether it is true or false.

Of course it does because truth doesn't contain error and fallacies do. Calvin used fallacious arguments to explain his doctrine. This is why we are told in the Bible to test all Spirits so that we can see where the fallacious arguments are and how they bring about falsehoods. Where exactly have I misrepresented anything about Calvinism?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Calvinism is fallacy and it's a 5 point one. The Bible admonishes us to avoid false teachers because of their false teachings not accept what we like and avoid the rest..

I think you missed the point,

I can study the word of God. and come up with a belief, that just happens to agree with one or more of the points of calvanism, even though I may have never heard of calvin or his teachings (this would go with anyone, not just calvin)

It does not make me a Calvinist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course it does because truth doesn't contain error and fallacies do. Calvin used fallacious arguments to explain his doctrine. This is why we are told in the Bible to test all Spirits so that we can see where the fallacious arguments are and how they bring about falsehoods. Where exactly have I misrepresented anything about Calvinism?

yet some of calvins points are true,, We do not rejhect the truth of what calvin said only because he said it. we would have to discard all the bible, because we will nto agree with everyone.

 

[GODisLOVE7]

I think you missed the point,

I can study the word of God. and come up with a belief, that just happens to agree with one or more of the points of calvanism, even though I may have never heard of calvin or his teachings (this would go with anyone, not just calvin)

It does not make me a Calvinist.

Well said. I would be a good example of this. I have studied the Bible without being exposed to religion and, of course, my beliefs were formed through reading the Bible and prayer. It wasn't until after I had a solid foundation and got to know the Word that I looked into what different religions believe (obviously this was part of God's plan).

Some beliefs align with what I know. Some challenge it. Just because there may be an alignment with any/some set of beliefs with my own does not mean I should be thrown into a category and labled, nor do I want to catagorize myself.

I just keep going back to the Bible and prayer to guide me. Hasn't failed me yet!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well said. I would be a good example of this. I have studied the Bible without being exposed to religion and, of course, my beliefs were formed through reading the Bible and prayer. It wasn't until after I had a solid foundation and got to know the Word that I looked into what different religions believe (obviously this was part of God's plan).

Some beliefs align with what I know. Some challenge it. Just because there may be an alignment with any/some set of beliefs with my own does not mean I should be thrown into a category and labled, nor do I want to catagorize myself.

I just keep going back to the Bible and prayer to guide me. Hasn't failed me yet!

I have learned alot of what I was taught was wrong.. I am still learning, It is good to hear others.. Helps us think, and if we are open, keeps us in check with humility..