Should we turn from sin? Of course we should. But why this insistence on saying that is "repenting" when there is hardly anyone who does not understand that such good and upright behavior that we all strive for is not "repenting?"
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Ariel82
Guest
From what I gathered from the article and your comments, you would prefer if people focused on preaching that people "turning to God" and that by its nature will cause them to turn from sin.
Is that a correct or incorrect statement?
Is that a correct or incorrect statement?
P
pottersclay
Guest
Repenting
Jesus pointed to Jonah, and the message he brought to Nineveh.
They repented, showed remorse, humbled themselves and God forgave them.
Anyone who claims this is not Gods way, has not known God.
Ezek 18:21-25 talks about behaviour and actions, what is pleasing to God and
what is not.
The church is founded on Gods word, so our doctrines and viewpoints are rooted
from there.
Good behaviour is rooted in our hearts and purity that dwells there.
Purity in the heart comes from cleansing by God, healing and knowing we are loved.
But to gain this inheritence you have to walk with an open heart, vulnerable, true
and real.
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.
2 Cor 4:6
As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:13
We are not striving to be good people, we are striving to know Christ, who has
promised us that we can walk like Him.
Striving to be good for its own sake is meaningless and impossible because without
God it is just rebellion against Him. It is also impossible without the Holy Spirit to
establish real order in our hearts, and get everything in balance, and give us the fellowship
that is a spring of living water to our souls.
Jesus pointed to Jonah, and the message he brought to Nineveh.
They repented, showed remorse, humbled themselves and God forgave them.
Anyone who claims this is not Gods way, has not known God.
Ezek 18:21-25 talks about behaviour and actions, what is pleasing to God and
what is not.
The church is founded on Gods word, so our doctrines and viewpoints are rooted
from there.
Good behaviour is rooted in our hearts and purity that dwells there.
Purity in the heart comes from cleansing by God, healing and knowing we are loved.
But to gain this inheritence you have to walk with an open heart, vulnerable, true
and real.
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.
2 Cor 4:6
As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:13
We are not striving to be good people, we are striving to know Christ, who has
promised us that we can walk like Him.
Striving to be good for its own sake is meaningless and impossible because without
God it is just rebellion against Him. It is also impossible without the Holy Spirit to
establish real order in our hearts, and get everything in balance, and give us the fellowship
that is a spring of living water to our souls.
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Ariel82
Guest
I think to truly understand what it means to be ressurected, we must understand what it means to be dead. Not physically dead but spiritually dead.
There are two ressurrections talked about in the Bible.
1. Resurrection of the spirit (which can happen in this life)
2. Ressurrection for judgment day (when we (those in Christ/sheep) get new glorified bodies and others are judged(unbelievers/goat))
Let's talk about the 1st today and the 2nd tomorrow with final judgment topic.
There are two ressurrections talked about in the Bible.
1. Resurrection of the spirit (which can happen in this life)
2. Ressurrection for judgment day (when we (those in Christ/sheep) get new glorified bodies and others are judged(unbelievers/goat))
Let's talk about the 1st today and the 2nd tomorrow with final judgment topic.
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Ariel82
Guest
Spiritual death
Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Romans 8:6
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Luke 15:24
for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.
Luke 15:32
'But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.'"
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Romans 7:9
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Romans 8:6
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Luke 15:24
for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.
Luke 15:32
'But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.'"
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Romans 7:9
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
Ariel - I agree with what you have put down as spiritual death. The other aspect of spiritual death is that the old man who was spiritually dead - also died on the cross with Christ.
I firmly believe not understanding this aspect of spiritual death will cause us to miss out on the truth of being free in Christ really means and to release His life in and through us to bear His fruit in our lives.
The understanding of our "union" with Christ in His death and resurrection is paramount in growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
Not knowing that the old man is in fact dead can create a works-based religion which in fact denies the work of Christ in our lives and exchanges the life of Christ in us for a performance driven false gospel.
So that we don't go into evangelical anaphylaxis ( which means a severe reaction that debilitates us) from what was said above -- I will say this to ease our minds. Good works will follow the believer as the life of Christ is released in and through us to bear His fruit in our lives.
The old man was our real person ( spirit and soul ) that was in Adam - dead spiritually. ( we still need to have our brain/minds renewed to truth as the ways of the flesh are still active in our minds and bodies but the old man himself is dead and is a goner )
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Then there is the subject of the resurrection from the dead. This is where the Christian lives now. When Christ arose from the dead - so too did we. We are a new creation in Him - joined as one spirit.
The religion of Christianity focuses on trying to die to self - when they have already died with Christ on the cross. Notice that the focus is on the newness of life that is in Christ. We live with Christ now that we were made alive in Him. We don't focus on death - we focus on life now that we are one with Christ. Religion always gets the work of Christ backwards.
I firmly believe not understanding this aspect of spiritual death will cause us to miss out on the truth of being free in Christ really means and to release His life in and through us to bear His fruit in our lives.
The understanding of our "union" with Christ in His death and resurrection is paramount in growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
Not knowing that the old man is in fact dead can create a works-based religion which in fact denies the work of Christ in our lives and exchanges the life of Christ in us for a performance driven false gospel.
So that we don't go into evangelical anaphylaxis ( which means a severe reaction that debilitates us) from what was said above -- I will say this to ease our minds. Good works will follow the believer as the life of Christ is released in and through us to bear His fruit in our lives.
The old man was our real person ( spirit and soul ) that was in Adam - dead spiritually. ( we still need to have our brain/minds renewed to truth as the ways of the flesh are still active in our minds and bodies but the old man himself is dead and is a goner )
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Then there is the subject of the resurrection from the dead. This is where the Christian lives now. When Christ arose from the dead - so too did we. We are a new creation in Him - joined as one spirit.
The religion of Christianity focuses on trying to die to self - when they have already died with Christ on the cross. Notice that the focus is on the newness of life that is in Christ. We live with Christ now that we were made alive in Him. We don't focus on death - we focus on life now that we are one with Christ. Religion always gets the work of Christ backwards.
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Sort of. But as I try to stress, we really should attempt to understand what was being said to the people to whom the words we read were first addressed before we go applying them directly to ourselves, skipping an understanding of what the original text meant.
Those Jews were already "turned to God." They were God Worshipers and God Fearers in such an extreme manner, that we probably can only imagine their devotion to God. They were also "turned from sin" in a way many of us could well learn to emulate.
What was being preached to them was that they needed to get their minds around the fact that Jesus had come to, among other things, end the old system of worship by animal sacrifice. They were being told to "turn to Jesus." And this was what many of them resisted...... because it seemed foreign to the way they had been raised to worship God. To them, Jesus, was pure heresy....... The total opposite of everything that made sense to them.
Much like today. Depending on who you voted for, just how much love is oozing out of you for the other candidate? How quickly would you rush to comfort a BLM adherent, or a terrorist who had just killed your family in a bomb attack? Yet, these were some of the (to their minds) completely false ideas Jesus was teaching....... among a hundred others that were often totally counter to the religion they had been taught, from childhood, to honor and revere.
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Ariel82
Guest
Yes Jesus was definitely revolutionary in many of His words and actions, like talking to the Samaritan woman at the well and not stoning the adulterous woman.
He changed many of the world's religions from what they used to practice to a more cleaned up version we see today.
The spiritual forces of darkness had to give their religions a face lift to keep people from running towards the true Light. They had to pretend to be angels of light.
We could do a study on Jewish beliefs and we briefly cover some aspects of it with our discussion, but I don't think babes in Christ have to understand Jewish beliefs to understand the Gospel. It will give a deeper understanding, though.
So I will keep in mind about supplying the historical background context to the verses we discuss, before asking folks how the verses apply to their life.
If I forget, I ask you to correct my oversight for me. Thanks,
He changed many of the world's religions from what they used to practice to a more cleaned up version we see today.
The spiritual forces of darkness had to give their religions a face lift to keep people from running towards the true Light. They had to pretend to be angels of light.
We could do a study on Jewish beliefs and we briefly cover some aspects of it with our discussion, but I don't think babes in Christ have to understand Jewish beliefs to understand the Gospel. It will give a deeper understanding, though.
So I will keep in mind about supplying the historical background context to the verses we discuss, before asking folks how the verses apply to their life.
If I forget, I ask you to correct my oversight for me. Thanks,
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Ariel82
Guest
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Ariel82
Guest
If people are interested in the background of other books we can examine it. However, it's too tedious to do this for a topical study. It is easier if we do a book/letter study. I guess I should have cited the background to Hebrews.
Though helpful..it give me a headache right now thinking about the amount of study that would be needed.
So we will go back to bottle making for now and revisit later.
Though helpful..it give me a headache right now thinking about the amount of study that would be needed.
So we will go back to bottle making for now and revisit later.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I see spiritual death like this.
Example of a dead body, The body and spirit are seperated. The spirit can not use the body, The body can not relate or function with the spirit. Until the body is renewed, The spirit and body can not relate or anything
Spiritual death means we are seperate from God. God can not use us (flesh), and we can not use God to function the way we were supposed to. We can not relate. Until the flesh is renewed, (born again) we can not relate or anything. because we are seperated, by a barrier.
That barrier of course is sin, Unless the sin issue is taken care of. The separation will be permanent.
Thats where the cross comes in, To the praise of God
Example of a dead body, The body and spirit are seperated. The spirit can not use the body, The body can not relate or function with the spirit. Until the body is renewed, The spirit and body can not relate or anything
Spiritual death means we are seperate from God. God can not use us (flesh), and we can not use God to function the way we were supposed to. We can not relate. Until the flesh is renewed, (born again) we can not relate or anything. because we are seperated, by a barrier.
That barrier of course is sin, Unless the sin issue is taken care of. The separation will be permanent.
Thats where the cross comes in, To the praise of God
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Ariel82
Guest
Bottle 5: The cross: upon the cross was nailed our savior, our sins, the old covenant laws we could not keep, our flesh. This is the dead man.
Bottle 6: Just like Jesus was resurrected from the dead, so are our spirits renewed by the Holy Spirit. We learn to listen to His guidance and grow in the fruit of walking with Him: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control. We add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love.
Bottle 6: Just like Jesus was resurrected from the dead, so are our spirits renewed by the Holy Spirit. We learn to listen to His guidance and grow in the fruit of walking with Him: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control. We add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love.
Sin the fruit of a dead heart without communion with God.
Righteousness the fruit of a live heart with communion with God.
Sin does not kill us, we are dying, and as we die we sin to jolly us along.
Our death is shutting love out, the very thing that would give us life.
Sin like poison, distorts and destroys and makes the decline steeper.
If we have not sinned, when we hear the words of life, and reject them
sin has entered our lives. If our hearts are already in rebellion, filled with
hurt, pain and bitterness, sin is soon to follow, like night follows day.
A new foundation in Christ, is a new building, with new purity, love and grace,
to fill and flood our lives with new reactions, new ways of being, new approaches,
the old man being replaced with the new man.
Righteousness the fruit of a live heart with communion with God.
Sin does not kill us, we are dying, and as we die we sin to jolly us along.
Our death is shutting love out, the very thing that would give us life.
Sin like poison, distorts and destroys and makes the decline steeper.
If we have not sinned, when we hear the words of life, and reject them
sin has entered our lives. If our hearts are already in rebellion, filled with
hurt, pain and bitterness, sin is soon to follow, like night follows day.
A new foundation in Christ, is a new building, with new purity, love and grace,
to fill and flood our lives with new reactions, new ways of being, new approaches,
the old man being replaced with the new man.
the bully that they fight in spiritual war fair or in spiritual gifts.
is condemnation or conviction of sin.
ie grace a gift. no condemnation.
by returning to the law they will find condemn nation, because that is the yoke paul addressed to the jewish in gal 5v1-4
for example.
because of there lack of understanding to the full gist of the bible.
the meek that they try to protect are being bullied under a yoke of the law they claim to repent from.
by rebuilding the jewish law, .the rebuild condemnation in a believer.
the believer has no way to defend this, because he dose not have the understanding to what jesus has already done for them.
the bully they think i am , is telling condemnation and and conviction to take a hick.
in doing so i am look at, as being a bully to them, because they law they repent from has been , misrepresented .
thats why a new covenant was put in place. to learn from god, at a personal level and at your pace and level of understanding. from god through the holy spirit.
the condemnation or conviction is from old testament law.
i know, thats, thats why i said hebs 9 has told you there is a new covenant.
by rejecting this. you are back to being under condemn nation. to that law.
so keep that out of christian forum , because thats what jesus set you free from.
or give clear understanding i am following jewish. law.
if you want to stay jewish, your in conflict to everyone in here. because the bully is the yoke. you cannot carry by your self.
but ask others, to do something you cannot do your self. that cross you carry is to death.
jesus said forgive them father, because they do not know what they do.
for example
you put jesus christ back on the cross, every time your repent.
we all need to understand the bible is not political correct.
there is no compromise , it gives clear instructions.
for all believers in god through jesus christ.
thats why acts 15 asks you what law was given to a gentile. and if you read that in context , that would be believers in jesus christ.
so now christian believers know god at a personal level.
it is your choice to live under that yolk.
so take that up with the bully, the yolk of the law, has put you under.
before you start calling people unclean or going to hell.
i already know the back ground, and know both covenants.
passover post. you tried to bring condemnation on me and will t .
did you hear me, waffle about being under your judgment or hurtfulness, spite , slanders comments.
you were give scripture, to think again , you and your church or belief, that you go to, are not the only ones living under grace a gift.
i made the comment towing the law behind them. the conviction that happens when it catches up with you. or the meek that is in your flock, because he dose not know , how to defend there own thought patterns or faith, that whu they go to church in the first place. because the milk he was given was summed up version to jesus saved them.
so when it catches up with them. you wonder why, they never come back to church or go else ware.
or end up with mental heath issues.
for example
(the harlet wiped the blood from drinking the blood of the saints . rev)
because they never followed up , or gave help to there own brother or sister,or church members, because they were to busy calling name and insults others. and keeping them in condemnation to there own unforgiveness.
you claim to see both covenants, but do not understand the danger, to the meek you try to protect, in your faith or stand. and by doing that someone like my self has to look like a bully by telling you this.
sin was already fixed by jesus christ. old covenant.
that separation is spiritual death to people who rebuild the law. in doing so. your back under a old covenant.
and back to being sick of what law do you repent from.
acts 15. and gal 5v1-4 already quoted to you.
and back in condemnation or conviction, to something you rejected as being done.
have an opinion is good. blindness to others opinion is your choice.
that barrier you have is condemnation or conviction.
there is no barrier, you found that barrier, when you rebuilt the law, in your understanding or thinking.
this is not grow, you have killed your own understand to grace, because you, are saying jesus only saves sinners.
why did cornelious not repent from being a sinner orally. go s to show you reject gods choice to save, who god see fit to save. so your free will to think ,has killed your understand to who saves who.
who said it was the only way. (repenting to find god)
when acts 15 clear calls your understanding a lier.
because it can not understand change. and how it was put in place.
jesus is the way the truth and light.
not the method in how you came to believe in jesus christ. etc
I am a liar because Acts 15 contradicts Jonah and His message.
Acts 15 is about the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.
Jonah is about repentance against the law of Christ. Their repentance is not
about becoming Jews but about being blasted from the earth because you are so
evil, the Lord will judge your society there and then.
And on this basis you call me a liar. I will pray for you my friend.
Wherever you are, you need the Lord and to come to the foot of the cross and
repent of your sins. Lord, help royalscot come close to you, and know both your
holiness and your acceptance of Him in Christ, if he lays down his old life, and is
willing to pick up his new life in you, Amen