Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[PeterJens]

What is our foundation in Christ built upon?
That we can trust Christ when we follow.

Poor in spirit, mourning, meek, hunger and thirst for righteousness, peacemakers, pure in heart,
merciful, persecuted for righteousness, hated because of Christ.

Now this is about a choice and an approach to life. It does not just happen, you choose
to follow, to take steps, to bend ones will to the will of the Father.

Jesus washed us clean, put the Holy Spirit in our hearts to walk this walk.
The cross is our guarantee, the stamp of authority and security, we need no other.

Those who walk in unbelief look for tickets of entry, guarantees without any void
conditions or date. All guarantees come with conditions, but it is those who truly
do not care want to test the conditions and see how far they can push it.

What is eternal life? For believers eternal life is to walk with Jesus and commune
in the Holy Spirit. For unbelievers it is a ticket to eternity that cannot be revoked.

God is being made into a God, who once embraces a believer, must deal with the believer
as if they are walking in the Kingdom, when they are walking in the ways of sin, because
the promise is understood to be accepted without conditions.

But Holiness rejects the defiled. There is no place for defilement in the House of God.
It is our faith that is counted as righteousness, while we work through our issues and
failures, to reach our goal of oneness with Christ.

 

[FranC]

LOL. I didn't say anything about "comes to" you added that. You're a trip.

Yes. This is what happens. When one cannot prove his point, he begins with the name calling.
A sure sign of weakness.


Here is what you stated in post no. 894, page 45:

You mean you have known many who thought they were saved, only to find out later they weren't. Happens all the time.

And we don't just "get" Christ, He gets us.[/U] We are His, and He will lose none who are His...it is the very will of God. (John 6:39)

I do apologize for adding the words "comes to", HOWEVER, it does not change the meaning.

This is the THIRD TIME I'm asking for scripture to support what you have stated above.

Please post scripture that says specifically that Jesus "gets us".

Thanks.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus will never leave or forsake us,but can a person leave Jesus.I am only wanting to know.

Those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,not as a suggestion,but as a commandment.

Everyday we choose to choose Christ and His way.
The deeper we walk with Him, the more we see and the more we understand why we choose
the way of Christ.

We choose the way of Christ because our hearts choose the way of love and the way of
openness and pain. Love cannot exist without pain, but the pain is worth it, because to be
without love is to die.

So the more we walk with the Lord, the more we see love is the free choosing to love and
serve, to lay ones life down for the benefit of another, as an outflow of the love and meeting
needs the Lord places on our hearts.

To ask can we leave Jesus? Ofcourse, but those who ask this question have not fully
understood what it means to walk with Jesus and learn what it is to love others.

 

[PeterJens]

Saved or not saved? This is a binary idea.

If we are lost creatures being tossed about by life and what we have experienced, the truth
would be better how like a ghost are we or living in reality?

The next question is are we travelling up the mountain to gain deeper fellowship with the Lord,
or walking deeper into the darkness to hide the hurts and pains we no longer can cope with?

Life is a walk and at the end you will know which path you have followed.
Where do you want to end up being seen to have arrived at? The mountain of God or the
outer darkness where there is only regret?

 

[FranC]

try the hand holding metaphor, Grandpa. that was a good one.

ps-- this is all of the thread i've read, so forgive me if you already did.

Yes. Your side knows all about kidding around.
Jesus was serious.
Read Mathew 5, 7, 25.

In fact, reread the entire NT.

 

[FranC]

By lack I didn't mean completely.

I meant less than someone else.

All these Greek believers!!

Do you know English?
What does LACK mean?

If you lack food,
Do you have Any Amount of food?

Really!

 

[gb9]

Saved or not saved? This is a binary idea.

If we are lost creatures being tossed about by life and what we have experienced, the truth
would be better how like a ghost are we or living in reality?

The next question is are we travelling up the mountain to gain deeper fellowship with the Lord,
or walking deeper into the darkness to hide the hurts and pains we no longer can cope with?

Life is a walk and at the end you will know which path you have followed.
Where do you want to end up being seen to have arrived at? The mountain of God or the
outer darkness where there is only regret?

backward thinking. our walk is the result of being saved, not the cause. only believers walk with Christ.

so much religious rhetoric, why can one not speak simple, clear truth??

 

[FranC]

When I post my thoughts - it's a copy and paste?...lol Too funny.

Point me to your post on the sealing. There is so much garbage and man-made suppositions on this thread that it's ridiculous to even read most junk.

What would you think about Paul deciding now to not believe in Christ?....or James or John if they can "change themselves" back from being united as one with Christ? Why can't they change their belief now while they are in heaven?

How would they or anyone for that matter "un-belief" themselves from being a son of God now?

Can you stop being a human being now by "changing your belief"?

Hi Grace

See my post no. 718
Maybe page 36.
Not home...

Id appreciate it if you really read it and thought about it.

We are sealed only by being in Christ.

Thanks.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 9:27



But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: (obedience to the truth) lest that by
any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Paul did not promise them liberty if he himself was a servant of sin. If he did such he would be castaway like chaff in the wind.....Peter said the many fasle prophets would come speaking with "great swelling words of emptiness" promising others freedom in Christ while they themselves were servants of sin and corruption....

This is a classic example of taking a scripture out of context to say that people can lose salvation. This scripture "in context" is talking about Paul's ministry in preaching the gospel.

Paul keeps his body under subjection so that he will not be a cast away from his ministry - not be separated from Christ for eternity like the demonic doctrine of losing one's salvation that is secure in Christ.

Here is the scripture in context. It's talking about His ministry - not where he will spend eternity and become "un-born" from Christ and stop being a son.

1 Corinthians 9:16-27 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

[SUP]21 [/SUP] to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

[SUP]23 [/SUP] I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;

[SUP]27 [/SUP] but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace

See my post no. 718
Maybe page 36.
Not home...

Id appreciate it if you really read it and thought about it.

We are sealed only by being in Christ.

Thanks.

As far as "inheriting the kingdom" - Here is a thread that discusses that idea in relation to the works of the flesh and experiencing the life of Christ in us now. Remember the kingdom of God is within us now.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-what-does-mean-does-heaven-hell-depend.html

I can see that you are keeping with your thoughts that being in Christ is dependent on us and not on what He has done so I'm not going to bother discussing this unbelief in Christ's work anymore.

I don't believe Jesus is a liar. He said the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. John 14:16 We abide in Christ for fruit bearing as only His life can bear fruit from our new man in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

I will boast in what the Lord has done for us. Others can do what they want. I'm not calling God a liar. Paul said "it is by Gods doing that we are in Christ Jesus".

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes. This is what happens. When one cannot prove his point, he begins with the name calling.
A sure sign of weakness.


Here is what you stated in post no. 894, page 45:

You mean you have known many who thought they were saved, only to find out later they weren't. Happens all the time.

And we don't just "get" Christ, He gets us.[/U] We are His, and He will lose none who are His...it is the very will of God. (John 6:39)

I do apologize for adding the words "comes to", HOWEVER, it does not change the meaning.

This is the THIRD TIME I'm asking for scripture to support what you have stated above.

Please post scripture that says specifically that Jesus "gets us".

Thanks.

*Sigh. Sometimes we just have to admit that even though we can explain truth to another, we cannot understand it for them.

 

[FranC]

This is a classic example of taking a scripture out of context to say that people can lose salvation. This scripture "in context" is talking about Paul's ministry in preaching the gospel.

Paul keeps his body under subjection so that he will not be a cast away from his ministry - not be separated from Christ for eternity like the demonic doctrine of losing one's salvation that is secure in Christ.

Here is the scripture in context. It's talking about His ministry - not where he will spend eternity and become "un-born" from Christ and stop being a son.

1 Corinthians 9:16-27 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

[SUP]21 [/SUP] to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

[SUP]23 [/SUP] I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;

[SUP]27 [/SUP] but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Yes Grace.

But if PAUL could be cast away, imagine you!

 

[FranC]

*Sigh. Sometimes we just have to admit that even though we can explain truth to another, we cannot understand it for them.

Do YOU understand that you need scripture to back up your statements?

Still waiting.
Don't have any, huh?

Then stop making statements that are extra-biblical.

 

[Grandpa]

All these Greek believers!!

Do you know English?
What does LACK mean?

If you lack food,
Do you have Any Amount of food?

Really!

Its ok if you don't know definitions of words. You can always look them up.

Like eternal.

That would be a good one for you.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Do YOU understand that you need scripture to back up your statements?

Still waiting.
Don't have any, huh?

Then stop making statements that are extra-biblical.

If you actually knew your Bible, you would already know it is supported by it.

 

[mailmandan]

This is a classic example of taking a scripture out of context to say that people can lose salvation. This scripture "in context" is talking about Paul's ministry in preaching the gospel.

Paul keeps his body under subjection so that he will not be a cast away from his ministry - not be separated from Christ for eternity like the demonic doctrine of losing one's salvation that is secure in Christ.

Here is the scripture in context. It's talking about His ministry - not where he will spend eternity and become "un-born" from Christ and stop being a son.

1 Corinthians 9:16-27 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

[SUP]21 [/SUP] to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

[SUP]23 [/SUP] I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;

[SUP]27 [/SUP] but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

I was reading through the comments of AT Robertson on 1 Corinthians 9:27. He notes: Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? He comments that most writers take Paul to refer to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race.

The problem that I see with this latter interpretation is I see a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved. *Notice that the NIV says - "disqualified for the prize."

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life either. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal.

Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race? Comparing that analogy with this passage of Scripture, that sounds like out of all of us believers who are in the race, only one of us is going to heaven.

 

[Grace777x70]

I was reading through the comments of AT Robertson on 1 Corinthians 9:27. He notes: Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? He comments that most writers take Paul to refer to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race.

The problem that I see with this latter interpretation is I see a difference between a prize and a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That doesn't sound like a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved. *Notice that the NIV says - "disqualified for the prize."

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - "Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing" (2 Timothy 4:8). Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:24, Paul mentions - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. That doesn't sound like the gift of eternal life either. That sounds like an Olympic race where all run, but only one receives the gold medal. Would this mean that everyone else is disqualified from the race? Silver medal, bronze medal, no medal but finished the race, all disqualified from the race?

Comparing that analogy with this passage of Scripture, that sounds like out of all of us believers who are in the race, only one of us is going to heaven.

I agree. Religion has distorted the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ so much and the enemy has sown seeds of doubt and dis-belief in the work of Christ.

The enemy distorts the minds of people to see the word "cast away" and immediately they think of being cast from Christ. This whole belief is so anti-Christ in it's nature and violates the whole "why" of the gospel in the first place that it is mind-boggling.

It is a works-based salvationists mindset that is behind this lie from the enemy. This nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Of course "in context" Paul in 1 Cor. 9 is talking about his ministry of preaching the gospel - not becoming an "un-child" of God. Paul is obviously telling us "how to run the race" that is set before us with patience. Heb. 12:1 ( it is NOT a salvation message - Christ alone is our redemption and life )

 

[PeterJens]

backward thinking. our walk is the result of being saved, not the cause. only believers walk with Christ.

so much religious rhetoric, why can one not speak simple, clear truth??

Based on how many can tell believers they are demon inspired or taught, it means
their faith in Christ is very poor. Our problem is always about facing who we truly
are and walking in Christs ways. But some claim to know Christ yet are so quick
to disown their own obedience to Christ. Is this not a denial of their own faith?

How can you love someone who is your enemy in thought, word and deed?

A believer is someone who puts their faith in Christ. Jesus promises them salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

I have a great deal of respect for those who have spent their lives contemplating
God's word.

Now there is great promise through the cross, but it has to be realised.

Formalism, or the show of faith and not the reality within has always been failure.

Jesus is very clear about the principles of life in the law of Christ.
Follow in obedience and you love Christ, rebel and you are rejected.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

****1 John 2:19 is not a proof text for Once Saved Always Saved----the context of 1 John 2 was gnosticism----some were teaching false things in regard to Christ and God the Father---whosoever will may come---this is the foundation of the Gospel---but our free will is always involved----we do not get "eternal life"----we get the Son----the Life is in the Son----when we receive Christ we receive Life-----if we turn from Christ and accept "ourselves" we do not have Life----check out the testimony of Matthew Vines----saved at 3 and continued as a born again Christian up to the age of 12-------in college turned to gay activism ------I believe he was truly saved at a young age---and according to 1 Corinthians 6:9 he is engaging in sins which keep your from the kingdom---am I positive about this position?----I am positive enough not to promote or teach Once Saved Always Saved----it is a dangerous teaching and the Scriptures give us abundant warning against falling away---better not to be born than to known the way of righteousness and depart (2 Peter 2:21)----you may be able to explain away some of these warnings with Calvinistic teaching---but are we risking the souls of men...?-------I will include Matthew Vines video on my next post...

Yep. Lets listen to men not God.

1 John 2 is about people who are antichrist, WHo is antichrist, but anyone who denys christ. What does john say about them, They were never of us, if they were truly of us they never would have left.

Thats the problem with many of the churches. They are men listeners and not God listeners. They can excuse any passage away, and say anything to make it justify their false belief system.