-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here is the joke. It is not clear your interpretation of scripture.
Righteousness being credited to someone is the idea that good works do not make us righteous
but our relationship with God does, expressed through faith. Part of this relationship is walking
in obedience to the commands of God.
Now two jumps in ideas are made. Being unrighteous is ok, not repenting of sin, and Jesus
righteousness is now our righteousness, so it does not matter what we have done.
These are both unbiblical ideas, but are used to excuse sinful behaviour and we still have
a relationship with God.
But Pauls view of us being a Holy Temple contradicts this idea. If we are the dwelling
place of God, we cannot be defiled. It would be impossible. Now Paul does have problems
with this concept, because he calls a couple, the unbelieving party is made holy by the believer.
But then surely that would imply they are saved, but this is going too far. Equally ones children
are deemed holy until they become to the age of responsibility.
Now some take this grace further to say we can be Gods temple but also be oppressed by an
evil spirit, though some would say not possessed.
The gnostic holy new spirit of the believer dwelling in sinful flesh equally suffers from this
problem as well. So do I have a clear picture of this, no.
But this sinful behaviour is just wrong. Nowhere does God compromise with sin.
Righteousness being credited to someone is the idea that good works do not make us righteous
but our relationship with God does, expressed through faith. Part of this relationship is walking
in obedience to the commands of God.
Now two jumps in ideas are made. Being unrighteous is ok, not repenting of sin, and Jesus
righteousness is now our righteousness, so it does not matter what we have done.
These are both unbiblical ideas, but are used to excuse sinful behaviour and we still have
a relationship with God.
But Pauls view of us being a Holy Temple contradicts this idea. If we are the dwelling
place of God, we cannot be defiled. It would be impossible. Now Paul does have problems
with this concept, because he calls a couple, the unbelieving party is made holy by the believer.
But then surely that would imply they are saved, but this is going too far. Equally ones children
are deemed holy until they become to the age of responsibility.
Now some take this grace further to say we can be Gods temple but also be oppressed by an
evil spirit, though some would say not possessed.
The gnostic holy new spirit of the believer dwelling in sinful flesh equally suffers from this
problem as well. So do I have a clear picture of this, no.
But this sinful behaviour is just wrong. Nowhere does God compromise with sin.
E
Here is the joke, This makes absolutely no sense at all, and I pray it is realy a joke and you di not mean what you said.
Righteousness means right standing, It means innocent of any charges, It means not guilty. It is a judicial term, it means acquitted of any crimes.
It does NOT MEAN we can not work.. where do you get that stuff??
No the only idea that is being made is that our righteousness can ever equal gods righteousness.. Because that is what it will take to get to heaven..
If your righteousness does not add up to Gods. YOU ARE UNRIGHTEOUS.. PERIOD
The only ones excusing sinful behavior are those who tell and think they are righteousness, when they are not..
The rest of us knows our righteousness are as filthy rags, and depend on God..
So peter just for everyone to see.
From what you just said, You believe you will get to heaven based on YOUR righteousness. (Not Gods) am I correct?
E
E
Yes!, Would this not be how?
Do I put others above myself. Do I put God above myself. or did I consider my needs in this situation before I considered anyone elses needs (this would include my enemies needs)
To me, the law can not teach us this.. thus it is not even a good guide to show us how good or bad we are. All it can do is prove our guilt..
But was that not the purpose of the law to begin with?
And it leads to my other question I asked you. If it proves our guilt, even after we are saved, (thus imposes the curse of sin on us which is death) because we can not fulfill it. then what are we in need of?
Do I put others above myself. Do I put God above myself. or did I consider my needs in this situation before I considered anyone elses needs (this would include my enemies needs)
To me, the law can not teach us this.. thus it is not even a good guide to show us how good or bad we are. All it can do is prove our guilt..
But was that not the purpose of the law to begin with?
And it leads to my other question I asked you. If it proves our guilt, even after we are saved, (thus imposes the curse of sin on us which is death) because we can not fulfill it. then what are we in need of?
I am seeing more clearly our differences in the concepts.
We do not enter heaven because of righteousness but because of faith or our
relationship with God. We enter into this relationship because of faith in Christ
and the cross. We enter heaven because we have continued in communion in this
relationship.
We are forgiven of our sins because of the cross.
This relationship makes us righteous, born again and renewed.
If we continue to walk in this relationship in faith, so we walk into eternity.
If we sin and stay unrepentant we loose our relationship and faith.
Jesus's righteousness made His death eternal, a single sacrifice for all time,
to be applied to sins of the past and those that have occurred up to the time
it is claimed as forgiveness.
The power of this communion is to enable us to walk righteously. It is what
eternal communion means and the conquering of original sin and a lack of love
between us and God. If we cannot now walk as Jesus did in fellowship with God
then what hope is there in eternity. Nothing is magically going to change between
conversion and seeing God.
Take the thief on the cross, he was accepted into heaven without a chance to sin
or do evil deeds as he was dying on the cross. But it was his faith that saved him.
We do not enter heaven because of righteousness but because of faith or our
relationship with God. We enter into this relationship because of faith in Christ
and the cross. We enter heaven because we have continued in communion in this
relationship.
We are forgiven of our sins because of the cross.
This relationship makes us righteous, born again and renewed.
If we continue to walk in this relationship in faith, so we walk into eternity.
If we sin and stay unrepentant we loose our relationship and faith.
Jesus's righteousness made His death eternal, a single sacrifice for all time,
to be applied to sins of the past and those that have occurred up to the time
it is claimed as forgiveness.
The power of this communion is to enable us to walk righteously. It is what
eternal communion means and the conquering of original sin and a lack of love
between us and God. If we cannot now walk as Jesus did in fellowship with God
then what hope is there in eternity. Nothing is magically going to change between
conversion and seeing God.
Take the thief on the cross, he was accepted into heaven without a chance to sin
or do evil deeds as he was dying on the cross. But it was his faith that saved him.
The righteousness we have now is God's righteousness.
The righteousness of God being "credited" as in fact a real thing is in the gospel. The righteousness of God because we are in Christ is both imputed and imparted to us in our new creation in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
The righteousness of God being "credited" as in fact a real thing is in the gospel. The righteousness of God because we are in Christ is both imputed and imparted to us in our new creation in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:24
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
F
Galatians 4:22-31
"The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise.
These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said,
“Rejoice, O childless woman,
you who have never given birth!
Break into a joyful shout,
you who have never been in labor!
For the desolate woman now has more children
than the woman who lives with her husband!”
And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit.
But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman."
"The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise.
These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said,
“Rejoice, O childless woman,
you who have never given birth!
Break into a joyful shout,
you who have never been in labor!
For the desolate woman now has more children
than the woman who lives with her husband!”
And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit.
But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman."
E
so if I read this correctly, Youthink you can get to heaven even though you have failed to meet the just requirement of the law (which is perfection)
So is this not depending on yourself?? And if you can get to heaven not being perfect. does that not mean you can get to heaven in sin? (because anything not perfect is sin)
Paul says in Christ with love in our hearts we fulfill the law by walking in the Spirit
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14
The cross teaches us the basic principles of love like nothing else.
Maybe you find it impossible to love, but then if you do not grasp the cross
or Christ so personally in relationship the rest will slip from your grasp.
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14
The cross teaches us the basic principles of love like nothing else.
Maybe you find it impossible to love, but then if you do not grasp the cross
or Christ so personally in relationship the rest will slip from your grasp.
E
Sis, I am not asking if we are saved to do good works. Nor am I saying if we are saved we should not to do good works. You are right,, We are saved by faith, Created by Christ to do good works. I agree 100 % with this. but I am not asking this.
I am asking if we can not keep the law. What keeps us saved?
I am asking if we can not keep the law. What keeps us saved?