forgive future sin? Matt 18: 21,

[TwoinSand]

Math 18:[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Is Not God telling Peter to forgive his brother for sins his brother has not even committed against him (future sin) yet? Since he is telling him to forgive his brother 70 X 7?

Thoughts?

Are there any other verses which you can think of which show God telling us to forgive others of not only past sin but future?

and finally, Would God asked us to do something he himself does not do?

Interesting questions. Good.

I have found myself wishing I hadn't said something to another person when I've been angry. Oddly enough, I replay in my thoughts the fiery situation that ignited my anger. This is odd. I know. But here goes, I then substitute my actual behavior with a right, Christ like behavior in my mind. This helps me with future heated moments. In imagining a replay, I discover, and/or am reminded about the insignificance of a number of things.
In all this, we can with God's word be equipped to be not only ready to forgive today, but as we experience the joy and peace of forgiving others today, we will become less focused on many of the shortcoming of others.

If we are so inclined to not be willing to walk or live as a forgive, we end up being counters: I forgave him the other day. Then yesterday. Then today. I only have to forgive him 70 x 7 = 490 - 3 is 487. Only 487 more times. Then I don't have to forgive him.

Better to reach for the principle of Jesus' teaching, don't live like the Pharisees. Don't go around expecting others to hurt us. And when others do sin against you, don't be such where the emotions, the self, has to be vindicated by every error against us.
Thank you.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

The Law and grace are opposed to each other at every point. Trying to mix them IS Galatianism, and is the most insidious form of legalism.

Jesus did not destroy the law but fulfilled and renewed it. The Word became flesh and full of grace and truth, lived among us. Jesus himself became the Law and He gave himself to us. This is why law and grace work together and not contradicting each other.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus did not destroy the law but fulfilled and renewed it. The Word became flesh and full of grace and truth, lived among us. Jesus himself became the Law and He gave himself to us. This is why law and grace work together and not contradicting each other.

It is one thing to say that Jesus fulfilled the Law by being, in Himself, the culmination of all that the Law pointed to pictorially and custodially. That He is what the Law was only a shadow of. That He is the reality of the Law. That He is the perfect expression of Gods character, the perfect revelation of Gods Glory. All of which is true. But it is something else entirely to say that the Law and Jesus are the exact same thing. That is to deify the Law. We are not being made into the law, we are being conformed unto the image of Christ. As men who will perfectly reflect the image of God just as He did. Imperfectly here and now in this world, but certainly perfectly in the next.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

It is one thing to say that Jesus fulfilled the Law by being, in Himself, the culmination of all that the Law pointed to pictorially and custodially. That He is what the Law was only a shadow of. That He is the reality of the Law. That He is the perfect expression of Gods character, the perfect revelation of Gods Glory. All of which is true. But it is something else entirely to say that the Law and Jesus are the exact same thing. That is to deify the Law. We are not being made into the law, we are being conformed unto the image of Christ. As men who will perfectly reflect the image of God just as He did. Imperfectly here and now in this world, but certainly perfectly in the next.

Jesus is the reality of the law. Infact God has put His laws in the minds and wrote them in the hearts of the believers so the law was not abolished.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did not destroy the law but fulfilled and renewed it. The Word became flesh and full of grace and truth, lived among us. Jesus himself became the Law and He gave himself to us. This is why law and grace work together and not contradicting each other.

can you fulfill the law?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus is the reality of the law. Infact God has put His laws in the minds and wrote them in the hearts of the believers so the law was not abolished.

Co-mingling Law and grace is spiritual polyandry, and is offensive to God.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

can you fulfill the law?

Jesus already fufilled the law. If we say that we remain in union with God,we should live just as Jesus Christ did. We can by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus already fufilled the law. If we say that we remain in union with God,we should live just as Jesus Christ did. We can by the power of the Holy Spirit.

so you can fulfill the law?

 

[PeterJens]

Here is the interesting point, I believe Christ can do the impossible, make me literally
righteous, holy and pure. It is why the cross and resurrection are so stunning.

This is what I call real faith and power. Paul certainly believed Jesus did it for him.
In Christ he has found righteousness which was impossible in the law.

Now I know you read imputed righteousness, but do you notice you have to put
the word imputed in there to make it mean that.

This is what adding to scripture gets you. But then until a different spiritual
reality dawns, you will forever be encased in your position.

I do wonder EG, I am a first generation believer, growing up in a non-believing
church attending family, so my faith is off my own searching and Gods revelation.
Not sure how many generations you are 2nd or 3rd?

Most of us know this is what you call real faith. That is why a lot of us "battle" with you.
It isn't saving faith.

Sorry I missed this. Let me quote John

But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

So real faith that we are born again from on High, born into the Kingdom, to be transformed
into His likeness is not real faith.

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thess 3:13

Wow. Then it has really passed you by.

It would appear there is a real disconnect with scripture and your faith.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Jesus already fufilled the law. If we say that we remain in union with God,we should live just as Jesus Christ did. We can by the power of the Holy Spirit.

How did Jesus live? By doing the will of His father. He was able to do it because He was perfect but we are not so we constantly need the Holy Spirit.

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Deut 27: [SUP]26 [/SUP]‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’


Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

This is what it means to fulfill the law according to Moses and Paul,

Can anyone do this? Yes Christ did it, but can we?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How did Jesus live? By doing the will of His father. He was able to do it because He was perfect but we are not so we constantly need the Holy Spirit.

we need more than this don't we?

And from this, I take it you agree, you cannot fulfill the law. What does that mean according to Paul and Moses?

 

[PeterJens]

Romans 4:6 (NASB95)
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Verb logizomai (λογίζομαι) [pronounced log-IHD-zohm-ai], which means, 1) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over; 1a) to take into account, to make an account of; 1a1) metaphorically to pass to one’s account, to impute; 1a2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight; 1b) to number among, reckon with; 1c) to reckon or account; 2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate; 3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer; 3a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on; 3b) to suppose, deem, judge; 3c) to determine, purpose, decide. Thayer definition

Now here we have mixing of theological concepts.
Righteousness is credited to the believer based on their faith in God.

This is not the same as Christs righteousness being imputed as a replacement of righteousness.
They are two different ideas, one is biblical the other is a theological construct of the reformation.

 

[Grace777x70]

People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

We do have laws in the New Covenant. They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.

There is no greater revelation than to know Him and the Father and to plumb the depths of their love and grace towards us which Paul says in Eph. 2:7 - the Father will be doing for all the ages to come to us.

Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live in the New Covenant as new creations in Christ by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us. Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now here we have mixing of theological concepts.
Righteousness is credited to the believer based on their faith in God.

This is not the same as Christs righteousness being imputed as a replacement of righteousness.
They are two different ideas, one is biblical the other is a theological construct of the reformation.

They both mean the same,, It is Christs righteousness imputed to the believer because of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if it is not Christ's righteousness that gets us to heaven, Then who's righteousness are we depending on to get ut to heaven.


Please tell me no one in here thinks they will get to heaven based on THEIR OWN righteousness..

 

[Tinkerbell725]

The law defines what sin is. It served as a mirror to reveal the condition of a person's heart. It does not make you righteous but God put it in the hearts of believers to help us avoid destruction of sin because we can be forgiven but sin has consequences. Sin has no dominion over us but it does not mean we shall sin because sin still damages lives. Yes there is no sin when there is no law but this fallen world does not conform with that. There are sinful people everywhere that we can't avoid and we are affected.

 

[Grace777x70]

They both mean the same,, It is Christs righteousness imputed to the believer because of faith.

Amen...the Greek word for "credited" means to take as an established fact. It's an accounting term. If the ledger says there is $100 in the bank - there is $100 in the bank. It is "credited" as being a fact and true.

We have Christ's righteousness now and we will never be any more righteous then the day we received Christ.

Christ's righteousness is a stumbling block to the humanistic D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset. The have the same mindset as the Jews that depended on what they did for righteousness ( which is the keeping of the law ).

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3[/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law defines what sin is. It served as a mirror to reveal the condition of a person's heart. It does not make you righteous but God put it in the hearts of believers to help us avoid destruction of sin because we can be forgiven but sin has consequences. Sin has no dominion over us but it does not mean we shall sin because sin still damages lives. Yes there is no sin when there is no law but this fallen world does not conform with that. There are sinful people everywhere that we can't avoid and we are affected.

so if we can not keep the law. Yet the law demands that we confirm and obey every word written.. or we are under a curse.

What does that tell you about our spiritual state? and what then should be done?