Don't ever let someone tell you God won't heal you.
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D
Rose,
As it happens, you're arguments are my arguments too, and for the same reason. Since we have the same arguments, but you seem to have forgotten Trophimus' name, I hereby bequeath to you a blog I posted (as my last incarnation on this site -- AtWhatCost) about the three blames people give those of us who haven't been healed strictly so you can have quick notes when you can't remember a name. (Save it somewhere so you can flick to it quickly next time.)
And, oh yeah, also good for everyone else who is either blaming the disabled/sick for daring to be not-healed or for the disabled as a refresher course on why blamers don't really need to be listened to.
Thorn in the Flesh
As it happens, you're arguments are my arguments too, and for the same reason. Since we have the same arguments, but you seem to have forgotten Trophimus' name, I hereby bequeath to you a blog I posted (as my last incarnation on this site -- AtWhatCost) about the three blames people give those of us who haven't been healed strictly so you can have quick notes when you can't remember a name. (Save it somewhere so you can flick to it quickly next time.)
And, oh yeah, also good for everyone else who is either blaming the disabled/sick for daring to be not-healed or for the disabled as a refresher course on why blamers don't really need to be listened to.
Thorn in the Flesh
Paul's thorn in the flesh was not a physical illness, it says it plainly what it was. "A messenger of satan." You couldn't be any clearer, and if you go to the original language "messenger" means angel (ἄγγελος).
2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was wrong with what I said? Is there not a difference between hope and faith? Can not I hope for something and yet not have faith? You may hope you win the lottery as you play it, but you may only have faith if God has told you that you'll one day win. Faith is closely related to knowing God's will, for in knowing His will you then can place faith in Him for its attainment.
I was just making a distinction between faith and hope. For people who claim God can heal them, thats a good starting place. Acknowledging His capability is good, but lets now move onto faith. Will He heal? What is His will? This one should seek out. People sought Jesus believing that He would heal them, or if they even touched His garment they would be healed. They believed, they expected, and they had faith (with hope). Their question was, "Are you willing?" They knew He was capable.
In this case, one must ask, "Is God willing to heal me?" Look no further than God's Son and what is said in Isaiah 53:4 (and check out Matthew 8:16-17 for confirmation its about healing). Far too often you'll see believers hoping for what is already theirs in Christ. You just need a person with understanding to simply lay hands, or command healing.
Now, I'm not trying to over simplify it. I understand that God has His timing and purposes. While healing is available there can be a time table to its occurrence. This I know from experience, as God healed me of an auto-immune disease. He eventually healed me, thank God, and He even told me that He was using me to build the other person's faith. So where I thought God used that person for me, God was instead using me for them. He heard my prayer/desire, but even beyond just healing me He "killed two birds with one stone" as it were. Healed me and built another's faith.
So don't think I am blaming the sick person. I am simply making a distinction between faith and hope. I am clarifying that God does have His timing and purposes. Over all I'm not saying anything controversial. Its biblical.
2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
What was wrong with what I said? Is there not a difference between hope and faith? Can not I hope for something and yet not have faith? You may hope you win the lottery as you play it, but you may only have faith if God has told you that you'll one day win. Faith is closely related to knowing God's will, for in knowing His will you then can place faith in Him for its attainment.
I was just making a distinction between faith and hope. For people who claim God can heal them, thats a good starting place. Acknowledging His capability is good, but lets now move onto faith. Will He heal? What is His will? This one should seek out. People sought Jesus believing that He would heal them, or if they even touched His garment they would be healed. They believed, they expected, and they had faith (with hope). Their question was, "Are you willing?" They knew He was capable.
In this case, one must ask, "Is God willing to heal me?" Look no further than God's Son and what is said in Isaiah 53:4 (and check out Matthew 8:16-17 for confirmation its about healing). Far too often you'll see believers hoping for what is already theirs in Christ. You just need a person with understanding to simply lay hands, or command healing.
Now, I'm not trying to over simplify it. I understand that God has His timing and purposes. While healing is available there can be a time table to its occurrence. This I know from experience, as God healed me of an auto-immune disease. He eventually healed me, thank God, and He even told me that He was using me to build the other person's faith. So where I thought God used that person for me, God was instead using me for them. He heard my prayer/desire, but even beyond just healing me He "killed two birds with one stone" as it were. Healed me and built another's faith.
So don't think I am blaming the sick person. I am simply making a distinction between faith and hope. I am clarifying that God does have His timing and purposes. Over all I'm not saying anything controversial. Its biblical.
We will never know this side of heaven, still i think Paul's thorn was the guilt he had from killing Christians before he met Jesus.
As far as God healing, lets face it, any Christian who has been around about 10 years or longer realizes God does not heal most people. His ways are so distant from ours, that we can not clearly comprehend all the reasons why, and many times not even the primary reason. He sees all and knows all.
We just have to have faith that if he does not heal us there is a good reason, something that is beyond question. If He does, ditto.
God is not the head waiter at our table complying to our every whim. Once we fell into sin what was He obliged to do for us?
If you ask me, He has done probably more then any sane person who has a firm grasp on the nature of sin and God could ask.
You all do realize that when we pray for Gods mercy and healing we are asking God to subvert the very laws of biology and nature that He himself set into place, right?
Considering that, I find it stunning that He ever does this, much less the hundreds of thousands (or millions or tens of millions) of times God has. That Gods love for us such that He would temporarily suspend and destabilize the very fabric of the stability of the natural laws He created is to me astounding.
As far as God healing, lets face it, any Christian who has been around about 10 years or longer realizes God does not heal most people. His ways are so distant from ours, that we can not clearly comprehend all the reasons why, and many times not even the primary reason. He sees all and knows all.
We just have to have faith that if he does not heal us there is a good reason, something that is beyond question. If He does, ditto.
God is not the head waiter at our table complying to our every whim. Once we fell into sin what was He obliged to do for us?
If you ask me, He has done probably more then any sane person who has a firm grasp on the nature of sin and God could ask.
You all do realize that when we pray for Gods mercy and healing we are asking God to subvert the very laws of biology and nature that He himself set into place, right?
Considering that, I find it stunning that He ever does this, much less the hundreds of thousands (or millions or tens of millions) of times God has. That Gods love for us such that He would temporarily suspend and destabilize the very fabric of the stability of the natural laws He created is to me astounding.
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Yes I understand all about the thorn in the flesh, but Paul was having serious eye trouble in Galatia to the point where the Galatians were wanting to give Paul their own eyes. So either that's a separate event and he wasn't healed, or it was a part of the thorn in the flesh incident and he wasn't healed. Either way, he wasn't healed.
You haven't address, Timothy or Trophimus either.
So we have Paul, Timothy and Trophimus who were not healed.
What's wrong with what you said? I'll address this comment. What if instead of thinking God can heal you, you think it is God's will to heal you now? Then you can have faith, because you expect the healing. You do not only hope to be healed, and believe in His capabilities but you also expect God to heal you because He has revealed in His word that that is His very will (through Jesus Christ).
You are saying if we aren't healed we only have hope and that if we had faith we could command it to be so and we would be healed.
This is not written in my bible anywhere. I believe you mean well, but this is simply more condemnation poured out upon the poor soul who's not healed. It's the person's fault.
Ben, I mean this question with all due respect. Why are you wearing eyeglasses?
Hey DesertRose, I'm sorry if what I said has been misunderstood. Let me clarify. I am not saying "if we aren't healed we only have hope and that if we had faith we could command it to be so..." If you'll reread my post you'll notice I said that this isn't a critique so much so for the sick individual as it is the minister.
Someone who is intentionally going to people and praying for healing would have much better results understanding the dynamic of faith, expectation, belief, and so on. Even so, the will of God (as the Lord leads them). People mistakenly pray for healing as opposed to operating in the name of Jesus (authority) and commanding healing. An example is in order.
If you have back pain, and a Christian notices this they can in the name of Jesus administer (not pray for, though this is also a fine route) healing. What I mean is where people often pray for God to heal a person you'll notice that the apostles and Jesus mostly just commanded it. "Rise and walk." There was no pleading to God, there was authority. In the same way Jesus has given us the privilege of using His name, in order to glorify the Father.
Its a whole 'nother concept of commanding healing of oneself. I don't know about that. What I am speaking of is like the roman centurion. Having faith for another. Commanding healing ("Be healed in Jesus' name") over someone in faith that God will act through you for His glory.
As for my glasses, I've had them since I was a child. I've shared this story on here before but it brings a deeper understanding to this question you have asked. I'll shorten it, because this post is already getting long. A minister goes to a village to evangelize, but the village is across a raging river. So the man prays to the Lord to walk on water as to reach these lost souls. He steps and lo and behold he is above the water, crossed it and preaches the Gospel to the lost. Many are saved.
Now, he left after ministering and its been about six months. He decides to return but as he approaches the village he notices that the river now has a bridge to cross over. He takes the bridge. As he crosses a young child runs up to the minister and asks, "Preacher, why didn't you walk on the water again!?" He simply said, "Because there is a bridge."
In the same way that I could seek healing for my eyes from the Lord, I have a natural solution like the bridge. The glasses. I could choose the glasses or I could choose to seek healing. The man could walk on water, but why would he when there is a bridge right there? Maybe as a sign, and in that case if God so wills to heal my eyes for His glory so be it. Either way, my glasses are a testament to God providing man innovation and not a stumbling block to healing.
Hope that clarifies some of the things typed out.
Someone who is intentionally going to people and praying for healing would have much better results understanding the dynamic of faith, expectation, belief, and so on. Even so, the will of God (as the Lord leads them). People mistakenly pray for healing as opposed to operating in the name of Jesus (authority) and commanding healing. An example is in order.
If you have back pain, and a Christian notices this they can in the name of Jesus administer (not pray for, though this is also a fine route) healing. What I mean is where people often pray for God to heal a person you'll notice that the apostles and Jesus mostly just commanded it. "Rise and walk." There was no pleading to God, there was authority. In the same way Jesus has given us the privilege of using His name, in order to glorify the Father.
Its a whole 'nother concept of commanding healing of oneself. I don't know about that. What I am speaking of is like the roman centurion. Having faith for another. Commanding healing ("Be healed in Jesus' name") over someone in faith that God will act through you for His glory.
As for my glasses, I've had them since I was a child. I've shared this story on here before but it brings a deeper understanding to this question you have asked. I'll shorten it, because this post is already getting long. A minister goes to a village to evangelize, but the village is across a raging river. So the man prays to the Lord to walk on water as to reach these lost souls. He steps and lo and behold he is above the water, crossed it and preaches the Gospel to the lost. Many are saved.
Now, he left after ministering and its been about six months. He decides to return but as he approaches the village he notices that the river now has a bridge to cross over. He takes the bridge. As he crosses a young child runs up to the minister and asks, "Preacher, why didn't you walk on the water again!?" He simply said, "Because there is a bridge."
In the same way that I could seek healing for my eyes from the Lord, I have a natural solution like the bridge. The glasses. I could choose the glasses or I could choose to seek healing. The man could walk on water, but why would he when there is a bridge right there? Maybe as a sign, and in that case if God so wills to heal my eyes for His glory so be it. Either way, my glasses are a testament to God providing man innovation and not a stumbling block to healing.
Hope that clarifies some of the things typed out.
God did heal me right away one time actually. I said that for people who sometimes don't get healed right away. How do you know God won't heal you? Are you dying tomorrow? You still have the rest your life to find that out. This is exactly why I said God doesn't heal right away or even in a year. Like this one woman I saw on the internet. She prayed to God for 5 years to heal her and then he finally did.
I watched the whole video. Pretty sad .. Has she tried to get healing from Christians who can lay hands on her? I've seen people get healed of paralysis and get up out of wheelchairs and walk
And to be exact, here's a story of God healing a quadriplegic
Quadraplegic healed by God – William Kent
.. Has she tried to get healing from Christians who can lay hands on her? I've seen people get healed of paralysis and get up out of wheelchairs and walkAnd to be exact, here's a story of God healing a quadriplegic
Quadraplegic healed by God – William Kent
Okay yes maybe when they were all at the pool he didn't heal them. This does not mean Jesus didn't heal them at some later time lots of times it talks about how masses of people were healed and it could very well be the same people from the pool. And even if Jesus didn't heal them while he was on earth, this does not mean he didn't heal them later on in their lives after he went back to heaven. But of course, I could be wrong as well.
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