SALVATION BASED ON FAITH

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 2:5 "by grace you have been saved", after explaining the beginning of our salvation or from sinner to saint. It happened by grace, after God had mercy on us, this is the context of verses 4-21, focusing in on 4-7. With verse 8 explaining all of it, from sinner to glorified bodies and eternality with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Verse 8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith" Here Paul adds "for" after explaining the full completion of our salvation, from sinners to born again saints to glorified bodies, which God already see us there. He begins the sentence with "for" or because. He's going to bring a fuller explanation of our saving grace and how it gets us to those glorified bodies. The word "through" or "continuing in time toward completion". If "through" meant "by means of" it would then mean that our grace was brought about by our faith. Faith isn't how we receive grace, grace is God's unmerited favor, His gift, if you have to do anything for a gift it is no longer a gift, it's a payment or compensation for the act or deed.

Paul clarifies this with, "Not of ourself, not of works; it's a gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast. Where the misunderstanding comes is with the word "boast" people have changed the meaning of the word 'boast" to mean bragging, I have do, I can, talking with excessive pride and self-satisfaction, which it can mean. But here what is trying to express a possession, of yourself, it's as simple as saying it's your faith over God's grace that saves you. Think about it, you are wanting to take credit for something God has done for you. What is your reaction to someone saying, God chose you, it's because of God's electing love that you are saved. Does that stir up something inside of you that make you have to defined that it's our faith that saved you or that brings God's grace?

This is something I had to deal with because I would think how dumb are these/this people/person that they don't know that it's faith that brings God's grace. All the time saying that God's grace is, God's unmerited favor, but my actions and thoughts did not agree with what was defending.

Not trying to get into a heated discussion or argue over this, I will better explain myself if someone would like, but I will not argue or fight over this.

I am not trying to fight either, Thank you so much for showing me what you think in a non judgmental way.. It gives us hope we can listen to each other. and learn what the other believes. even if in the long run we fail to agree. Again, Thank you.



Boast.. To me, You boast of things you earn.. If I work hard this week, And earn a good paycheck, I can boast, or take credit, for earning that paycheck.

If I train hard to run a race, and win, I can boast of the fact it was because of all of my hard work, I can boast of my reward.

Paul is saying here, and he reiterates in Romans chapter 4 is salvation is not something we can boast of.

To me he is giving the definition of a work in this passage (notice law is not even mentioned,, Many people want to claim he is just talking about works of the law here, but he is not. The word boast proves it) A work which is done to EARN a wage, a reward, (even if it is just to puff up your ego) is a work... in other words.. Any work which can be used to say we earned salvation and BOAST in ourselves, is a work which did not save us.

Faith is not a work, Because we are not trusting ourselves, We are trusting in God. He did all the work. I think again romans 4 explains this alot better than I can.

Rom 4: What then shall we say that Abraham, [SUP][a][/SUP]our forefather according to the flesh, has found? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to BOAST about, but not [SUP][c][/SUP]before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

Notice that Paul says that if abraham was saved or considered righteous because of a work he did, It would not be counted as grace, or favor, It could only be counted as work,,and that would mean Abraham earned his salvation.

Notice also. Abraham was considered righteous in Gen 3: 15. Because he believed or trusted in Gods promise. Because he was saved, and because he had faith, We see all the work Abraham did post salvation, Even believing God would raise his son from the dead to keep his promise. (but even that faith took time to grow. As we know. Ishmael was a child of sin. and lack of faith abraham had.. at the time)

What you've explained here is grace not faith, faith is our response to grace, God's unmerited favor. Look at what immediately follows the word, "faith", not of ourself, because God initiated it by causing us to be born again. I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”

We are saved by grace THROUGH faith.. Faith is what allows Gods grace to save us But it is not the ACT that saved us, The act that saved us was the cross.

Does this make sense, if not. Please say so and ask.. I will try to help you understand what I mean..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, proving my point that good works justifies no one nor proves anything.

can a person have true saving faith and do nothing? not even one work? (a real work, not a self righteous work which can appear to us to be a work of righteousness, but to God is not. )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It doesn't take several years to finally produce good works. The first thing that I did after receiving Christ through faith was share the gospel with my entire family. Was that not a good work? Just because there was jealously and strife among these babes in Christ at Corinth does not mean that none of them has ever produced a single good work, but they needed to mature. I believe James. If someone "claims" to have faith but they have "no" works (at all, ever) then they have a dead faith and not genuine faith.

All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

a work could be as small as just changeing your attitude to a few sin issues, Or resolving an issue you had with someone.. People do not get born again, Have the spirit anoint and enter them, then do nothing.

James spoke to people who were hearers of the word not doers. who would later read his later, who professed to be saved people ad have real faith.. Who he worried just had lip service. And he worried about their eternal soul, and if they were ever saved at all.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Faith in GODS WORK.

Gods work is complete.

Which means if people think salvation is something that is not complete the moment we are saved.

Then their faith is not in God..

It's not quite that simple. I could truly believe and KNOW I have been saved and believe that I have to continue and abide. Some do not look at eternal life as a thing to be grabbed for and got as their own possession, apart from abiding. This doesn't necessarily mean my trust is not in God. It can mean that one believes they are a hypocrite if they say they believe but then find themselves worrying, for example, over provision. They clearly see that they are saying one thing (I believe and trust) but doing the opposite (worrying even though He said these things would be added to us.) So they see that their worry is unbelief in something He has said and they set to praying for what they need. This is not having trust in something other than God. It is them seeing they have been lying and hypocritical and taking the matter seriously. So it's not as simple as systematic theology strives to make it. Many godly men believe they must continue in that same trust that they were saved through by the kindness of God. And they see that He has pointed out to them an area where they are lying and are not continuing in that same trust and they set to the weed growing in the garden through prayer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James is not just making a point, but is giving instruction to the scattered Jews that they are to take care of one another during great tribulation. This work helps justify the Jew for the Millennial reign of Christ.

what? Where may I ask does this thinking come from I have never heard it.. ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED. and is able to rebuke, teach, instruct etc etc.. James is part of that ALL scripture..

James wrote to the people who were the church at the time, He wrote to his brothers and sisters. He wrote concerning an issue thay had right then and there, and the whole church has had since pentecost. That we have many people who THINK they are saved, because they said some prayer, or claimed to have faith.. But by their actions, show their is question of whether they had faith at all. and are really saved.

So he told them (and us) to test our faith.. If we claim we have faith, But are hears of the word and not doers. Can our faith save us?

The answer is no.. Because we never had true faith to begin with, Faith produces work.. He was not telling the church to test peoples faith to see if they think they are saved, He told individuals. Test YOUR faith to make sure it is real.

That is what differes james words from pauls.. Paul spoke to people who did all kinds of work.. But they thought they were saved by those works.. James talked to a few who thought because they had faith, they could do whatever they want, It did not matter, they were saved forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Notice also. Abraham was considered righteous in Gen 3: 15.

correction that was supposed to say chapter 15. not 3 15..

 

[mailmandan]

Does one good work at sometime in the believer's life justify the man as a true Christian?

I am all for growing and maturing in the faith so fruit will abound. But not every believer is under that same circumstances. The only work that matters for salvation is Christ's work on the cross. The works of the believer matters at the Judgment Seat of Christ where the believer will be judged according to their works whether they be good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul says we labor to be accepted by the Lord whether we are present with Him or on this earth. Why? Because our labor will be judged. Paul even goes on to warn about the terror of the Lord at the JSOC. This judgment will not be a pretty sight for the believer whose works are burned and suffer the loss of inheritance.

1 Corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Why is the man whose work is burned and suffers loss...why is he saved? See verse 11. His foundation is Jesus Christ. Once a man is saved, his foundation is settled, unmovable in Christ. Now it's time to build upon that foundation, laboring for the Lord.

There are works that will be burned and works that will be rewarded. That doesn't mean that all of our works will be burned. You are making this out to be a lot more complicated than it really is. Your argument is with James, not me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not quite that simple. I could truly believe and KNOW I have been saved and believe that I have to continue and abide.

No you can not. Because then your faith would be in how well or how capable you are of abiding, the subject of your faiht is taken off god and placed on yourself and your ability to abide.

Those who have faith in God. trust in his promise, and his work, Not in themselves, They can now focus on being a child of God and growing in him with no fear of rejection if they do not live up.

Satan wants us to doubt our salvation or question it, Because it is then our focus comes of God and we start to focus on performance, (we are only righteous and produce fruit when we abide) and he has taken many a person out of the war because of this lack of faith..

So to start a person as a new believer and tell him already his salvation is only assured if they abide. That is not a good thing.. Because you have just told that person he must trust himself and his ability Not GOD

Some do not look at eternal life as a thing to be grabbed for and got as their own possession, apart from abiding.

Then to me, they do not understand the gospel.. Jesus said trust him and you have it, Jesus said in John, Eat the food and drink the cup (the word) to the point you understand it and then TRUST it,, And you will never die, live forever, Never hunger or thirst, and be risen on the last day, You HAVE ETERNAL life when you do this.

to deny this is to deny christ, and again, shows lack of faith in Gods word. and his promise.. And switch faith to self..

This doesn't necessarily mean my trust is not in God. It can mean that one believes they are a hypocrite if they say they believe but then find themselves worrying, for example, over provision. They clearly see that they are saying one thing (I believe and trust) but doing the opposite (worrying even though He said these things would be added to us.) So they see that their worry is unbelief in something He has said and they set to praying for what they need. This is not having trust in something other than God. It is them seeing they have been lying and hypocritical and taking the matter seriously. So it's not as simple as systematic theology strives to make it. Many godly men believe they must continue in that same trust that they were saved through by the kindness of God. And they see that He has pointed out to them an area where they are lying and are not continuing in that same trust and they set to the weed growing in the garden through prayer.

I will be honest, I do not know how you can say you have faith, and not worry, knowing that if you fall you can lose salvation. To me that would either cause fear. or you would have to hide your fear and end up lying to yourself..

Our eternal security in christ is the bases for growing in christ and having the peace that surpasses all understanding,, It is how we can endure tribulation, Pain Suffering, and continue to carry on, even when we mess up..

 

[MadebyHim]

1 Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How long will ye imagine mischief against a man? ye shall be slain all of you: as a bowing wall shall ye be, and as a tottering fence.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]They only consult to cast him down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them

[SUP]11 [/SUP]God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work. Psalm 62

Faith(trust) brings Salvation

 

[sondra333]

[h=2]Re: SALVATION BASED ON FAITH[/h]

Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace

It's not quite that simple. I could truly believe and KNOW I have been saved and believe that I have to continue and abide.



No you can not. Because then your faith would be in how well or how capable you are of abiding, the subject of your faiht is taken off god and placed on yourself and your ability to abide.

Those who have faith in God. trust in his promise, and his work, Not in themselves, They can now focus on being a child of God and growing in him with no fear of rejection if they do not live up.

Satan wants us to doubt our salvation or question it, Because it is then our focus comes of God and we start to focus on performance, (we are only righteous and produce fruit when we abide) and he has taken many a person out of the war because of this lack of faith..

So to start a person as a new believer and tell him already his salvation is only assured if they abide. That is not a good thing.. Because you have just told that person he must trust himself and his ability Not GOD


Some do not look at eternal life as a thing to be grabbed for and got as their own possession, apart from abiding.


Then to me, they do not understand the gospel.. Jesus said trust him and you have it, Jesus said in John, Eat the food and drink the cup (the word) to the point you understand it and then TRUST it,, And you will never die, live forever, Never hunger or thirst, and be risen on the last day, You HAVE ETERNAL life when you do this.

to deny this is to deny christ, and again, shows lack of faith in Gods word. and his promise.. And switch faith to self..


This doesn't necessarily mean my trust is not in God. It can mean that one believes they are a hypocrite if they say they believe but then find themselves worrying, for example, over provision. They clearly see that they are saying one thing (I believe and trust) but doing the opposite (worrying even though He said these things would be added to us.) So they see that their worry is unbelief in something He has said and they set to praying for what they need. This is not having trust in something other than God. It is them seeing they have been lying and hypocritical and taking the matter seriously. So it's not as simple as systematic theology strives to make it. Many godly men believe they must continue in that same trust that they were saved through by the kindness of God. And they see that He has pointed out to them an area where they are lying and are not continuing in that same trust and they set to the weed growing in the garden through prayer.



I will be honest, I do not know how you can say you have faith, and not worry, knowing that if you fall you can lose salvation. To me that would either cause fear. or you would have to hide your fear and end up lying to yourself..

Our eternal security in christ is the bases for growing in christ and having the peace that surpasses all understanding,, It is how we can endure tribulation, Pain Suffering, and continue to carry on, even when we mess up..​

• How is this for faith i was at church by a friend at work's design, and quite literally bored to tears wiping them away when the pastor asked if anyone wants to recieve Jesus Christ's salvation raise your right hand. At that moment i had no intention of raising my hand for i was angry at God and i quite literally thought "OHHH, Thank God! They ususally do this at the end i can go home now" How faithfull? and How close was i to Him in my heart right then? Alas though my daughter who was 13 nudged me and without looking to her to see what she needed i just assumed that she wanted to know if she should raise her hand so.......to set a good example to my daughter i raised mine and immediately i felt a physical sensation of the Holy Spirit entering into my body...and i knew instantly that i for whatever reason had just recieved His salvation and i wept.....telling my friend i hope i don't disappoint Him, fully accepting His gift........So people u don't have to jump thru any kind of hoops just accept that is it, at least it was for me Thank you Lord Jesus

 

[eternally-gratefull]

• How is this for faith i was at church by a friend at work's design, and quite literally bored to tears wiping them away when the pastor asked if anyone wants to recieve Jesus Christ's salvation raise your right hand. At that moment i had no intention of raising my hand for i was angry at God and i quite literally thought "OHHH, Thank God! They ususally do this at the end i can go home now" How faithfull? and How close was i to Him in my heart right then? Alas though my daughter who was 13 nudged me and without looking to her to see what she needed i just assumed that she wanted to know if she should raise her hand so.......to set a good example to my daughter i raised mine and immediately i felt a physical sensation of the Holy Spirit entering into my body...and i knew instantly that i for whatever reason had just recieved His salvation and i wept.....telling my friend i hope i don't disappoint Him, fully accepting His gift........So people u don't have to jump thru any kind of hoops just accept that is it, at least it was for me Thank you Lord Jesus

If you accepted his gift in complete faith of what CHrist did and his promise amen and amen!!

Now. Imagine how you would feel if the pastor told you. Ok good. You have just started your journey, Now you better continue to abide in him, Or else your salvation will be lost.. Contine to have faith in him, Or the Seal of the spirit he said you have, the eternal life he said you possess, the adoption as his child. is all done away with.

How would you feel?? Would your faith be strengthened?

 

[truthhurts]

a work could be as small as just changeing your attitude to a few sin issues, Or resolving an issue you had with someone.. People do not get born again, Have the spirit anoint and enter them, then do nothing.

James spoke to people who were hearers of the word not doers. who would later read his later, who professed to be saved people ad have real faith.. Who he worried just had lip service. And he worried about their eternal soul, and if they were ever saved at all.

As an aside here, the word "word" used in the New Testament has been taken at face value in modern times to mean the written word or the Bible....When James used the term WORD in this verse, the whole bible was not even around....

James was telling us and the Jews back then don't not just be a hearer of "JESUS" but be a doer of "JESUS" as well....

JOhn told us the word was made flesh adn dwelt among us and many,many times in the New Testament the writers were not using the term word for a complete Bible as many have alluded to...they were in fact referring to the Word that was made flesh and dwelt among us....they were using the term word to mean Jesus Christ...because they did not have a complete Bible and at best had the Pentateuch, the prophets and Psalms....

I bring this up because if you begin looking at it in this correct manner it opens up new understanding to scripture:

James 1.23-25

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if anyone is a hearer of Jesus Christ and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

If you read it this way, then chapter 2 falls into line....

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No you can not. Because then your faith would be in how well or how capable you are of abiding, the subject of your faiht is taken off god and placed on yourself and your ability to abide.

Those who have faith in God. trust in his promise, and his work, Not in themselves, They can now focus on being a child of God and growing in him with no fear of rejection if they do not live up.

Satan wants us to doubt our salvation or question it, Because it is then our focus comes of God and we start to focus on performance, (we are only righteous and produce fruit when we abide) and he has taken many a person out of the war because of this lack of faith..

So to start a person as a new believer and tell him already his salvation is only assured if they abide. That is not a good thing.. Because you have just told that person he must trust himself and his ability Not GOD


Then to me, they do not understand the gospel.. Jesus said trust him and you have it, Jesus said in John, Eat the food and drink the cup (the word) to the point you understand it and then TRUST it,, And you will never die, live forever, Never hunger or thirst, and be risen on the last day, You HAVE ETERNAL life when you do this.

to deny this is to deny christ, and again, shows lack of faith in Gods word. and his promise.. And switch faith to self..



I will be honest, I do not know how you can say you have faith, and not worry, knowing that if you fall you can lose salvation. To me that would either cause fear. or you would have to hide your fear and end up lying to yourself..

Our eternal security in christ is the bases for growing in christ and having the peace that surpasses all understanding,, It is how we can endure tribulation, Pain Suffering, and continue to carry on, even when we mess up..

I have to address your first paragraph before I read the rest of it. How is it having trust in my own ability to trust if I see I am not trusting and ask someone else for the help I need? If I was having trust in my own ability to keep trusting (abiding), I would not ask for help, I would just try harder to trust...If I see I am not remaining in trust (abiding), and I ask for what I lack from someone else, that is not trusting in my own ability - it is seeing my poverty and begging for what I need from someone else...

 

[wsblind]

The first thing that I did after receiving Christ through faith was share the gospel with my entire family. Was that not a good work?

I can't judge that as a divine fruit. Only you can. I can't see if you were filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit and had 100% pure motive in sharing the Gospel. God will use it as good, but it may not be credited to your account as a divine Good work.

Many share the Gospel, but they don't have pure motives.

I believe James. If someone "claims" to have faith but they have "no" works (at all, ever) then they have a dead faith and not genuine faith.

If James wasn't speaking to and about saved people, He would have put the brakes on and said," You Guys need the gospel. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

An unbeliever has no chance of understanding how to produce Divine Good works.

If some claims to have faith but has no good works. How in the world could we expect them to understand how to do divine good works? We could talk till we are blue in the face to try to make them understand divine Good works and to no avail.

James was describing carnal believers. Only believers have a chance to wake up and understand how to produce fruit. An unsaved person has no chance to understand the more complicated aspects of the Christian way of life.

If James was making the distinction of "real" believers and "unreal" believers..............he would have just gave them the simple Gospel. That is the only thing they could have possibly understood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As an aside here, the word "word" used in the New Testament has been taken at face value in modern times to mean the written word or the Bible....When James used the term WORD in this verse, the whole bible was not even around....

James was telling us and the Jews back then don't not just be a hearer of "JESUS" but be a doer of "JESUS" as well....

JOhn told us the word was made flesh adn dwelt among us and many,many times in the New Testament the writers were not using the term word for a complete Bible as many have alluded to...they were in fact referring to the Word that was made flesh and dwelt among us....they were using the term word to mean Jesus Christ...because they did not have a complete Bible and at best had the Pentateuch, the prophets and Psalms....

I bring this up because if you begin looking at it in this correct manner it opens up new understanding to scripture:

James 1.23-25

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if anyone is a hearer of Jesus Christ and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

If you read it this way, then chapter 2 falls into line....

Which just takes us back to john 1: 1, in the begining was the word, And the word was with God and the word was God..

I would hope and pray we all understood this, But I think we can see not everyone does, So thank you for pointing this out,

I like to say how can you say you have faith in Jesus, and trust what he says, when you NEVER do anything he says, and look absolutely nothing like him (not everyone is perfect. so we will fail.. But do we at least shows signs we are his children?

 

[PeterJens]

It's not quite that simple. I could truly believe and KNOW I have been saved and believe that I have to continue and abide. Some do not look at eternal life as a thing to be grabbed for and got as their own possession, apart from abiding. This doesn't necessarily mean my trust is not in God. It can mean that one believes they are a hypocrite if they say they believe but then find themselves worrying, for example, over provision. They clearly see that they are saying one thing (I believe and trust) but doing the opposite (worrying even though He said these things would be added to us.) So they see that their worry is unbelief in something He has said and they set to praying for what they need. This is not having trust in something other than God. It is them seeing they have been lying and hypocritical and taking the matter seriously. So it's not as simple as systematic theology strives to make it. Many godly men believe they must continue in that same trust that they were saved through by the kindness of God. And they see that He has pointed out to them an area where they are lying and are not continuing in that same trust and they set to the weed growing in the garden through prayer.

Stunning - Some people use language so aggressively.

I am married, with 3 almost grown up kids. Now I hope to abide in the love of the family
and do good things with them. It is a desire to be faithful and share in the life we have
together. It is an honest expression knowing relationships have their ups and downs.

Now put this in a religious context and the answer is no, you cannot do this.

Pardon. Does Christ say do not work, or put effort in, or desire good things?
No. Does Paul not encourage us to fight, work, strive, press on, train like an
athelete. To say the opposite is to contradict the word of God.

But maybe arrogance and being dogmatic and condescending to another is no
problem at all. And to dismiss Gods word like yesterdays news, no problem.

It is not what I expect from believers or even someone aspiring to teach others.
But then maybe the spirit of anger and assertiveness is what they are really all
about. God bless you stunnedbygrace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to address your first paragraph before I read the rest of it. How is it having trust in my own ability to trust if I see I am not trusting and ask someone else for the help I need? If I was having trust in my own ability to keep trusting (abiding), I would not ask for help, I would just try harder to trust...If I see I am not remaining in trust (abiding), and I ask for what I lack from someone else, that is not trusting in my own ability - it is seeing my poverty and begging for what I need from someone else...

Are you talking about salvation, and eternal life?

or are you talking about trusting God in a situation in your life?

To me these are two different things.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I will be honest, I do not know how you can say you have faith, and not worry, knowing that if you fall you can lose salvation. To me that would either cause fear. or you would have to hide your fear and end up lying to yourself..

When I tie this part of your post in with the other part of your post where you say satan lies and tells us we must continue trusting, I get confused at what you are trying to convey. You seem to want to say we have the security of eternal life but have it apart from continuing in the trust through which we received it in the first place, by Gods' kindness.

So it appears to my understanding that you are saying you have been saved by the kindness of God, through trust, but continuing trust is now no longer in play because you cannot be disqualified from the "race of trust to the end" by not continuing to race at all. This is how my mind sees what you are saying.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Are you talking about salvation, and eternal life?

or are you talking about trusting God in a situation in your life?

To me these are two different things.

I am talking about trust, through which it all comes to us.
It is by the kindness of God, through trust, that a man is saved, and that trust is not of himself so no man can boast.
It seems bizarre to me to then say: okay, done deal, now God has no recourse if I dump the trust part of that. That would scare me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If James wasn't speaking to and about saved people, He would have put the brakes on and said," You Guys need the gospel. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.".

I think he did just this.

Jesus made it clear. We are saved by faith.

When james states a person has a dead faith, It means that faith has no life, thus it is powerless.. Can a powerless faith save you? No. That was his point.

I think we need to be careful about assuming people that go to our churches are all saved.. There may be many in there who think they are saved, yet have not made that final real decision yet.. Even if they said a "sinners prayer" claiming they have faith in God.

We are saved by a living faith, Not a dead faith.