Morning Mailmandan,
Let me bounce a question off you: Do you believe that continuing in faith is required for salvation? That is, if a true believer goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, remains in that state and dies in that state, are they still saved?
Yes and saving faith is firmly rooted and established in Christ and continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
What do you think about the following scriptures? What do they mean to you?:
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But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
The Jews were called the "servants of the Lord". Isaiah 43:10 - "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my
servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He." This does not mean they were all saved. Unbelievers are cast into hell, not children of God.
Galatians 4:6 - And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
John 8:35 - The servant does not abide in the house for ever; the son does remain forever.
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My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
*Notice - Brethren, if anyone
"among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..
IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My
soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of
death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living
soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7).
Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But
love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for
"love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.
So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).
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I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that
bear no fruit and branches that
bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).
John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.
So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.