The Rapture explained in two minutes

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miknik5

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I kind of don't want to go on that tangent at the moment. Maybe later, if I have time!
Sir?

that is what will play a big part in the persecution and martyrdom of believers (another type of "tribulation) L before wrath is poured out full force upon the earth
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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I kind of don't want to go on that tangent at the moment. Maybe later, if I have time!
Believe me

you have to

the AoD will not happen until the earthly temple is rebuilt
who did you think was going to warn their older Jewish brothers that an earthly temple is not needed?
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
Believe me

you have to

the AoD will not happen until the earthly temple is rebuilt
who did you think was going to warn their older Jewish brothers that an earthly temple is not needed?
Sir?

that is what will play a big part in the persecution and martyrdom of believers (another type of "tribulation) L before wrath is poured out full force upon the earth
Yes? And?

None of that changes the fact that the disciples went out from the Olivet Discourse having been told by Jesus they should look for...NOT some mythical pre-70th Week "rapture" event...but rather, the Abomination of Desolation. That's the end of the line for PreTrib doctrine...regardless of where and when and how the temple is or isn't rebuilt.

If Peter, James and John lived with an expectation of the Abomination of Desolation, followed by Great Tribulation, followed by the Gathering...so should obviously ALL believers.
 

miknik5

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And what do you think will happen to those who do warn their older Jewish brother against the building of the unnecessary earthly temple?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Yes? And?

None of that changes the fact that the disciples went out from the Olivet Discourse having been told by Jesus they should look for...NOT some mythical pre-70th Week "rapture" event...but rather, the Abomination of Desolation. That's the end of the line for PreTrib doctrine...regardless of where and when and how the temple is or isn't rebuilt.

If Peter, James and John lived with an expectation of the abomination of Desolation, followed by Great Tribulation, followed by the Gathering...so should obviously ALL believers.
Mythical, huh?

sir, you are dxaltingbyour many added words
again, you can't know anything unless HE reveals it by HIS SPIRIT

I am not in agreement with you
one of us is in error
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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And by the way, Peter, James and John lived with the RIGHT EXPECTATION

And it wasn't the AoD


clue:

blessed the man who waits 1335 days
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Or....you can always refer to Job's prophetic words:

MY REDEEMER LIVES
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Aren't the Jews currently working on planning to build the temple?

in order for the AoD as mentioned in Daniel and 2 Thessalonians 2 to occur, there has to be a re built temple and with the rebuilt temple, the reinstatement of animal sacrifices which is an abomination in and of itself
animal sacrifices as an abomination? I've never heard that before, but I can see that as a possibility.
 

miknik5

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animal sacrifices as an abomination? I've never heard that before, but I can see that as a possibility.
Do you know what GOD was saying in Haggai 2

this is very very important

and yet the Jewish "priests" preparing themselves for the rebuilding of the earthly temple will completely ignore GOD's WORD

Even In the time of Ezra, no man could just have a part in building the temple. The man had to have the right credentials. He had to belong to a priestly line and if he did not supply the proof, Ezra would not allow that man a part in laying a hand to building the temple or having any part in the priestly duties

and yet, according to Haggai 2, GOD already declared ALL unclean before Him M

even with their not believing in CHRIST JESUS as THE MESSIAH, they will still ignore and overlook GOD's WORD which already states there are none clean
 
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miknik5

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Jun 2, 2016
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But
the earthly temple will be rebuilt all the while as the believers in CHRIST remind their Jewish brothers that it shouldn't be
 

Dan_473

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OK, here's how this works:

Jesus told Peter, James and John to live with the expectation of possibly living to see the Abomination of Desolation followed by Great Tribulation.

Peter, James and John then passed along that teaching to their followers. When Peter, James and John then eventually died from martyrdom or old age or whatever...their followers now began to pass on this teaching from Jesus.

When they died after a lifetime of teaching the Olivet Discourse...then their students now began to pass on this teaching of...living with an expectation of seeing the Abomination of Desolation (etc.)

Where then is there any room for a PreTrib rapture? The believers, starting with Peter, James and John...were believing and teaching a post-"Great Tribulation rapture/"gathering".

I don't understand what it is you're not understanding. (?)

Well....of course.(?) Isn't that exactly what Jesus proposed to Peter, James and John? He said they should keep a look-out for these events.

BUT HE ALSO issued the caveat...that HE DID NOT KNOW the "day or hour" of these events...which is the equivalent of saying Peter, James and John might not live to see these events and that therefore it would be susbsequent generations of believers who would enounter the "AoD"...followed by the Great Trib...followed by a post-"Great Trib" rapture.
' Jesus told Peter, James and John to live with the expectation of possibly living to see the Abomination of Desolation followed by Great Tribulation.'

maybe that's where we are reading it differently. Jesus speaks to the disciples as representatives of later followers. imo, Judas was there, too... but again imo, I don't think Jesus expected Judas to see the AoD.
 

miknik5

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And why are there none clean?

because there is only ONE who washes and makes clean and it is only through HIM who alone as THE SON over HIS FATHER's HOUSE is building THE HOUSE for GOD

And it is only through HIM who is both holy and clean and acceptable offering and HIGH PRIEST over the offering that we enter in and have a part in this royal priesthood

pointing all to THE ONE through whom we are restored and reconciled back to THE FATHER
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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They don't presently know this
and they don't presently understand this
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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' Jesus told Peter, James and John to live with the expectation of possibly living to see the Abomination of Desolation followed by Great Tribulation.'

maybe that's where we are reading it differently. Jesus speaks to the disciples as representatives of later followers. imo, Judas was there, too... but again imo, I don't think Jesus expected Judas to see the AoD.
our "expectation" isn't in seeing the AoD, nor are we waiting as of this is our HOPE

We wait because our "expectation" and HOPE is in HIM
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Do you know what GOD was saying in Haggai 2

this is very very important

and yet the Jewish "priests" preparing themselves for the rebuilding of the earthly temple will completely ignore GOD's WORD

Even In the time of Ezra, no man could just have a part in building the temple. The man had to have the right credentials. He had to belong to a priestly line and if he did not supply the proof, Ezra would not allow that man a part in laying a hand to building the temple or having any part in the priestly duties

and yet, according to Haggai 2, GOD already declared ALL unclean before Him M

even with their not believing in CHRIST JESUS as THE MESSIAH, they will still ignore and overlook GOD's WORD which already states there are none clean
hmmm... ok, if you mean this verse, then I can see what you're saying.


HAGGAI 2:14 Then Haggai answered and said, So is it with this people, and with this nation before me, declares the LORD, and so with every work of their hands.
And what they offer there is unclean.



interesting, then, how some passages not usually considered in 'prophecy schedules' can have a big impact in interpretation.
 

miknik5

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hmmm... ok, if you mean this verse, then I can see what you're saying.


HAGGAI 2:14 Then Haggai answered and said, So is it with this people, and with this nation before me, declares the LORD, and so with every work of their hands.
And what they offer there is unclean.



interesting, then, how some passages not usually considered in 'prophecy schedules' can have a big impact in interpretation.
Look at the question GOD asks the high priests
 

Dan_473

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Look at the question GOD asks the high priests
These verses?

HAGGAI 2:11 Thus says the LORD of hosts: Ask the priests about the law:
HAGGAI 2:12 If someone carries holy meat in the fold of his garment and touches with his fold bread or stew or wine or oil or any kind of food, does it become holy? The priests answered and said, No.
HAGGAI 2:13 Then Haggai said, If someone who is unclean by contact with a dead body touches any of these, does it become unclean? The priests answered and said, It does become unclean.
 

miknik5

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Paraphrase Haggai 2:14

and so it is all the nations before ME
(All declared by HIS WORD unclean...all the High priests and all peoples)


(yet I will bless you)
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
maybe that's where we are reading it differently. Jesus speaks to the disciples as representatives of later followers.
Read what 'differently? I'm reading the Olivet Disocurse. What scripture are you reading that indicates Jesus wasn't speaking to Peter, James and John? Quite clearly there is zero scripture for such a claim. (?) That's something you just made up. Why would you do that?

Do you believe Peter walked out of the Olivet Discourse, saying: "Jesus just looked me in the eye and said to be prepared for the Abomination of Desolation...but He wasn't really talking to me. He was talking to others that I represent...even though He addressed me as though His words applied to me."

That didn't happen. How would he have derived that conclusion?

And if you were to claim Peter was under a 'mistaken' impression that the Olivet Discourse applied to him...then you're back to the problem of Jesus giving Peter, James and John information that was not correct for them. He was handing them erroneous information...false information...false doctrine.

And again, the problem would be horrendously compounded by the simple fact that Peter, James and John would have then "mistakenly" passed along this erroneous information.

So their students would then have ALSO have been under an INCORRECT impression...would ALSO have received false teaching..,.and would then THEMSELVES go on to teach false doctrine.

I would say you're not thinking this through very well.

Judas was there, too
Well, no. Pretty clear, only Peter, James, John and Andrew were present. Mark 13.