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You must have missed the scriptures in the New Testament where the Lord specifically teaches us that men are to be in leadership.
Sure woman can influence and be led of the Lord, but the Lord never contradicts His own Word which would make Him a liar... so, women are not to be pastors or in authority over men because it's not God way or His order no more than being gay is his way or His order.
Sure woman can influence and be led of the Lord, but the Lord never contradicts His own Word which would make Him a liar... so, women are not to be pastors or in authority over men because it's not God way or His order no more than being gay is his way or His order.
Lets talk about scripture. Which scripture are you pulling your beliefs from and i will tell you either my view of it or tell you i am wrong.
But i have asked this very question before and learned a lot since then. So lets see based off scripture what is the reasonable way to believe on this subject
But i have asked this very question before and learned a lot since then. So lets see based off scripture what is the reasonable way to believe on this subject
A
My question is how do pastors have authority over men?
I am not being coy.
I know pastors preach from the pulpit.
Sometimes it's in exhortation, so do prophets.
Sometimes it's to expound upon the Bible and how God's will can be carried out or salvation,etc...so do teachers (i know debate if women can teach men, but most allow women to teach children...when does a boy stop being a child? When he is a mature man in Christ does he need to be taught or just reminded of God's truths?)
So the only difference I see is the location: what is so special about the pulpit?
Or the people, "child" does that mean physical or spiritual are?
I would say spiritual because women are allowed to evangelize to grown men.
Everything else a pastor does has been shown to be allowed EXCEPT authority over men.
Does a MALE pastor actually have spiritual authority over men and what does that mean?
I don't know the answer to that question.
Mainly because i know the ulitimate authority is in Christ alone and don't recognize unnatural authority of my pastor over me.
He exhorts and reminds us to do good,pray and think about the Bible. However he doesn't influence my life or excwrciae authority over me directly beyond the weekly Sunday sermon.
I had one meeting with him and he mentored me for an hour. If I have any questions and concerns I could ask him.
However we have lay leaders, Stephen ministers, associate pastors, etc. I find they have more authority and running of the church.
I know the pastor helps guide and steer the vision and focus of the church, would that be labeled as spiritual authority?
I always thought pastors would pray and listen to what God and their council of elders said? So would the pastor truly have "spiritual authority over men"?
I know one of the gifts of the spirit deals with administrative matters and not all pastors have the same spiritual gifts.
We have a music/youth minister, children minister, pastoral care pastor, and our lead pastor. Then lots of committees.
For me the spiritual authority is held by all of them as a governing body.
I am not being coy.
I know pastors preach from the pulpit.
Sometimes it's in exhortation, so do prophets.
Sometimes it's to expound upon the Bible and how God's will can be carried out or salvation,etc...so do teachers (i know debate if women can teach men, but most allow women to teach children...when does a boy stop being a child? When he is a mature man in Christ does he need to be taught or just reminded of God's truths?)
So the only difference I see is the location: what is so special about the pulpit?
Or the people, "child" does that mean physical or spiritual are?
I would say spiritual because women are allowed to evangelize to grown men.
Everything else a pastor does has been shown to be allowed EXCEPT authority over men.
Does a MALE pastor actually have spiritual authority over men and what does that mean?
I don't know the answer to that question.
Mainly because i know the ulitimate authority is in Christ alone and don't recognize unnatural authority of my pastor over me.
He exhorts and reminds us to do good,pray and think about the Bible. However he doesn't influence my life or excwrciae authority over me directly beyond the weekly Sunday sermon.
I had one meeting with him and he mentored me for an hour. If I have any questions and concerns I could ask him.
However we have lay leaders, Stephen ministers, associate pastors, etc. I find they have more authority and running of the church.
I know the pastor helps guide and steer the vision and focus of the church, would that be labeled as spiritual authority?
I always thought pastors would pray and listen to what God and their council of elders said? So would the pastor truly have "spiritual authority over men"?
I know one of the gifts of the spirit deals with administrative matters and not all pastors have the same spiritual gifts.
We have a music/youth minister, children minister, pastoral care pastor, and our lead pastor. Then lots of committees.
For me the spiritual authority is held by all of them as a governing body.
J
wolf with due respect that argument is gonna backfire on you pretty bad. marshal applewhite, david berg and jim jones were all men. and when it comes to death and destruction outside the church, those leaders are dominated by men.
i am a man but i will be the first to raise my hand and admit we have lead this world in every aspect throughout history and have done nothing but make things worse.
i am a man but i will be the first to raise my hand and admit we have lead this world in every aspect throughout history and have done nothing but make things worse.
I am not at all offended .I am not sure why you say like modern day Pharisees?
Yes God set up certain kinds of laws through the prophet Moses that were used as shadows and types to typify beforehand a suffering savior in order to preach the gospel beforehand. The Pharisees misrepresented it and made it as binding as moral laws as if they were not just shadows and types that pointed ahead as shadows. Ceremonial laws are not the kind of laws that we could judge one another with, even though the Pharisees with Sadducees did. They simply were not walking by faith .
They sought after the signs they performed as cerimoinail laws. It would be like today someone getting baptised was a sign from heaven they were children of God by a work they could perform.
The think the baptism ceremonial law began in the Old Testament as a ceremonial cleansing law
that was used when a new member of the priesthood annouced there desire to become like a Levite.
The other three I would offer are New Testament ordinances. The head covering and the breaking of bread together make one ordnance celebrated by uses both outward indications of the coming supper of the lamb .This is when we receive our new bodies and the mariage union will be consummated.
I would offer. It’s not just speaking but Pastoring the flock represented by man in respect to Christ our husband, the chief Sheppard of our souls, not seen.
I am not aware of any female sheppards of the sheep. Female prophets yes, Pastors no.
According to my beliefs if more than one husband was there, the woman or women would honor the ceremonial law, a sign for the angels who long to look into salvation seeing they are not subject to the gospel. In the end it has to with the hidden glory of God revealed by faith. If the woman does not honor it, both her and her husband will be held responsible just as it was in the garden in the beginning.
The husband was held responsible for the usurping of the head which again represented the man who represented the spiritual head of the church, Christ.
Again it is a ceremonial law and therefore not subject to judgment like the Sabbath laws.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Col 2:16
Eve voluntarily worshipped the angel, the father of lies rather than walking by faith.(the unseen eternal one)
I am not aware of any female sheppards of the sheep. Female prophets yes, Pastors no.
According to my beliefs if more than one husband was there, the woman or women would honor the ceremonial law, a sign for the angels who long to look into salvation seeing they are not subject to the gospel. In the end it has to with the hidden glory of God revealed by faith. If the woman does not honor it, both her and her husband will be held responsible just as it was in the garden in the beginning.
The husband was held responsible for the usurping of the head which again represented the man who represented the spiritual head of the church, Christ.
Again it is a ceremonial law and therefore not subject to judgment like the Sabbath laws.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Col 2:16
Eve voluntarily worshipped the angel, the father of lies rather than walking by faith.(the unseen eternal one)
I have heard Joyce Mayer speak the Word on occasion, and I have heard her with the Presence of the Holy Spirit. She was even used, though she is not aware of it, for a prsonal miracle. I would never discount all of her preaching just because she is a woman.
The same holds true fo rmen. I would never hold anything against their preaching just because they are men.
All said, no person, male or female, has a perfect command of understanding all of the Word. If you believe someone other than our Savior does, you are mistaken, for that work of perfection in each of us, women included in case you need reminding, will be completed on God's Day. Let on one take away from the gifted people of God.
PS...I do not always agree with Joyce, my dear sister, but I believe she knows a lot more than most. If you believe she is too well off, you know she will answer for that come the Kingdom.....personally, I do not care if she is well off as log as she keeps up her good works........God bless her. You all too.....
The same holds true fo rmen. I would never hold anything against their preaching just because they are men.
All said, no person, male or female, has a perfect command of understanding all of the Word. If you believe someone other than our Savior does, you are mistaken, for that work of perfection in each of us, women included in case you need reminding, will be completed on God's Day. Let on one take away from the gifted people of God.
PS...I do not always agree with Joyce, my dear sister, but I believe she knows a lot more than most. If you believe she is too well off, you know she will answer for that come the Kingdom.....personally, I do not care if she is well off as log as she keeps up her good works........God bless her. You all too.....
A
Yeah I think the church should be lead by a council of elders and the pastor is just the member that typically preaches and helps them stay focused on Christ.
I know that is how it works for Methodist and the Baptist church I attended.
Baptist had only male elders. Methodist have both make and female.
Baptist typically keep the pastor for a long while.
Methodist have pastors rotate every 7 years or so. Ours is leaving after only 2 years and another was at his church for 25..so not exact.
So in the case of the Methodist church, the elders really run it,
I know that is how it works for Methodist and the Baptist church I attended.
Baptist had only male elders. Methodist have both make and female.
Baptist typically keep the pastor for a long while.
Methodist have pastors rotate every 7 years or so. Ours is leaving after only 2 years and another was at his church for 25..so not exact.
So in the case of the Methodist church, the elders really run it,
A
Wait, what does this mean:
"Again it is a ceremonial law and therefore not subject to judgment like the Sabbath laws."?
So does that mean they won't be tossed in hell for it?
I always thought Jesus did away with ceremonial laws in that verse. I would classify Sabbath keeping as ceremonial law.
Worshipping idols would be adultery of the heart.
Are you saying approving of women pastors is like worshipping idols?
"Again it is a ceremonial law and therefore not subject to judgment like the Sabbath laws."?
So does that mean they won't be tossed in hell for it?
I always thought Jesus did away with ceremonial laws in that verse. I would classify Sabbath keeping as ceremonial law.
Worshipping idols would be adultery of the heart.
Are you saying approving of women pastors is like worshipping idols?
J
lets be honest here guys
matthew 23 : 8-12
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
in the bible
a church is a gathering of believers.
not a temple or a building
and i will call no man or woman pastor or rabbi or any title above sister or brother
what people call churches now are typically messed up
and to want to glorify God and spread the truth is one thing
but WANTING to be a pastor is different than just preaching
i would say if youre a pastor youre assuming authority over the building the church is taking place
and depending on what certain scriptures truely mean not how you take them
yes as a woman its wrong
as a man it can also be argued its wrong
if you wanna walk the fence thats on you
but to make a youtube channel so people can choose to listen while you pray on the matter and continue in your studies might be the best answer
or to street preach were people can walk away
matthew 23 : 8-12
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
in the bible
a church is a gathering of believers.
not a temple or a building
and i will call no man or woman pastor or rabbi or any title above sister or brother
what people call churches now are typically messed up
and to want to glorify God and spread the truth is one thing
but WANTING to be a pastor is different than just preaching
i would say if youre a pastor youre assuming authority over the building the church is taking place
and depending on what certain scriptures truely mean not how you take them
yes as a woman its wrong
as a man it can also be argued its wrong
if you wanna walk the fence thats on you
but to make a youtube channel so people can choose to listen while you pray on the matter and continue in your studies might be the best answer
or to street preach were people can walk away