Are we justified by works?
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John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we (demonstrative evidence) love God and keep His commandments. BTY - The Greek word for keep is "tereo" and it means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time. John, using descriptive language, gives us a description of those who keep His commandments and those who do not keep His commandments. John clearly explains in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
It's our FAITH that overcomes the world, not our works and not sinless, perfect performance.
Have you overcome ALL sin? Do you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life (exactly as Jesus lived) 100% of the time?
Faith in Christ, not sinless, absolute perfect performance.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we (demonstrative evidence) love God and keep His commandments. BTY - The Greek word for keep is "tereo" and it means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time. John, using descriptive language, gives us a description of those who keep His commandments and those who do not keep His commandments. John clearly explains in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
It's our FAITH that overcomes the world, not our works and not sinless, perfect performance.
Have you overcome ALL sin? Do you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life (exactly as Jesus lived) 100% of the time?
Faith in Christ, not sinless, absolute perfect performance.
I suppose you say this because many here play games.
I don't play games.
I say what I mean and mean what I say.
So, do you agree with that post of mine or not?
If you want to discuss Jesus and Paul, I could do that too.
But that's not what I was asking you.
If I'm going to be around here, you might as well get to know me.
No game playing for me. OK?
I don't play games.
I say what I mean and mean what I say.
So, do you agree with that post of mine or not?
If you want to discuss Jesus and Paul, I could do that too.
But that's not what I was asking you.
If I'm going to be around here, you might as well get to know me.
No game playing for me. OK?
See gb9.
You're doing what some here do.
It's called a Red Herring Fallacy. Look it up on google.
Instead of answering my question, you bring up a totally different topic and then talk about that.
People usually do this when they don't like the question OR they cannot answer it.
We should stop doing this here or conversation becomes very difficult.
See post no. 233 and, again, do you agree with what I said?
If not, why?
You're doing what some here do.
It's called a Red Herring Fallacy. Look it up on google.
Instead of answering my question, you bring up a totally different topic and then talk about that.
People usually do this when they don't like the question OR they cannot answer it.
We should stop doing this here or conversation becomes very difficult.
See post no. 233 and, again, do you agree with what I said?
If not, why?
Always remember Jesus said that there would be wheat and tares right in amongst us. Only God who knows the hearts of the people can determine who has Christ in them or not.
How do we overcome? John gives us the answer:
“You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.” (1 Jn 4:4)
Overcoming is not about jumping through hoops and satisfying the expectations of men. It’s about depending on The Overcomer who lives in you.
“For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (1 Jn 5:4-5)
Are you born of God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? If yes, then the Overcomer lives in you and you can’t help but be an overcomer.
That’s why Jesus told the disciples to be encouraged during times of tribulation; because he – not they – had overcome the world and because they would carry his overcoming Spirit within them.
We are called to fight the good fight of faith! Believe in what Christ has done and His life will be manifested in every circumstance of our life while on this earth.
Feed people with a bunch of religious food and they will not have the nutrients to walk in the Overcomer like they should. Feed people the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work and the love and grace of God will provide the nutrients to grow up in Him.
How do we overcome? John gives us the answer:
“You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.” (1 Jn 4:4)
Overcoming is not about jumping through hoops and satisfying the expectations of men. It’s about depending on The Overcomer who lives in you.
“For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (1 Jn 5:4-5)
Are you born of God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? If yes, then the Overcomer lives in you and you can’t help but be an overcomer.
That’s why Jesus told the disciples to be encouraged during times of tribulation; because he – not they – had overcome the world and because they would carry his overcoming Spirit within them.
We are called to fight the good fight of faith! Believe in what Christ has done and His life will be manifested in every circumstance of our life while on this earth.
Feed people with a bunch of religious food and they will not have the nutrients to walk in the Overcomer like they should. Feed people the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work and the love and grace of God will provide the nutrients to grow up in Him.
in reference to your post # 221- I basically agree. now, that being said, Jesus said that love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. if this was the moral law you mean, I agree. if you mean the Torah, then that is wrong.
now, that being said, do you consider the words of Paul Scripture? and do you use a systematic theology, where the entire Bible is used for your belief system, or just parts of it.
for example, if you just read the old covenant, you would think that if Israel broke it, they were doomed. but if you continue,in the book of Judges, they repeatedly broke it, yet God in his love saved them.
this is what I mean- one should not just take parts of the Bible and build theology, without balancing it with other parts.
now, that being said, do you consider the words of Paul Scripture? and do you use a systematic theology, where the entire Bible is used for your belief system, or just parts of it.
for example, if you just read the old covenant, you would think that if Israel broke it, they were doomed. but if you continue,in the book of Judges, they repeatedly broke it, yet God in his love saved them.
this is what I mean- one should not just take parts of the Bible and build theology, without balancing it with other parts.
Without the faith OF (coming from) Christ no man could believe Him not seen and therefore please Him.
In that way we are to let the mind OF Christ as the source OF His faith working in us. We then can offer our gift of faith towards him as our amen to His faith working in us. (faith is a work)
The newly created faith as to the hearing of it, is the gift of God working in us, not a work of our own selves coming from the imaginations of ones own sinful heart. Natural mans source of faith, no faith coming from God. Not being able to see past their nose as to the unseen spiritual.
Faith, the unseen will of God is a work by which God works to in us to perform His good purposes. He makes our new hearts soft.
The faith OF Christ, the faith OF the Holy Spirit of God is the work of Christ our Faithful creator. When He believes something will happen he declares as a work what he hopes will happen and it does work out.
“Let their be light and there was”.
By believing a work will happen, God exercises (works) His belief by working in us as we are informed in Philippians 2 . Having believed we offer the faith that comes from hearing Him as our thanksgiving as an acknowledgement. Faith works two ways coming from another and our amen as to the agreement. Hebrews 4 calls it mixing faith in what a person does se our hear.
My added opinions in (purple parentheses)
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, "work out" (not work for to gain) your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you “both” to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12
James 2 begins with begins with the loving commandment... not to have the faith OF Christ as the work OF Christ as if it came from(OF)ourselves or any other person other than God. It is a imputed faith as a rightousness not of our own selves not coming from the imaginations of ones own heart. Faith is a work of God that cannot be separated as a labor of His love.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith OF our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord OF glory, with respect OF persons.
We can understand it is a work that is not of our own self, but all the same is a work. The conclusion in violting the commandment is that men accredit the work that comes from hearing God to their own selves or that of another man.
Blasphemy is to accredit the work of one to another sort of like plagerisism. The reason for the fall in the begining.
.Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
We cannot have faith IN Christ, towards Christ unless we are first given the faith OF Christ, OF God.
We are justified by works just not that of our own selves or Abraham, like us, because then we would have something to boast in.
Was not Abraham our father “justified by works”, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how (Christ’s) faith wrought with his works, and by works (OF God) working in Abraham was (Christ’s faith) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, “Abraham believed God”(according to the work OF Gods faith), and it (Christ's work OF faith) was “imputed unto him”( Abraham and Rehab) for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:23
There is no other way we could reconcile faith as a work unless it is imputed.
No faith... no work, no work.... no grace, no grace... no salvation.
From my experiences searching out the difference from the faith OF Christ from that OFour own selves, many seem to shy away from God as needing faith in order to work out the good pleasure of His will. having faith IN Christ coming from thier own self.This only shows they are not walking according to the faith of another (Christ the Faithful Creator.
Philippians 3:9 And be found IN him, “not having mine own righteousness”, which is OF the law, but that which is through the faith OF Christ, the righteousness which is OF God by faith:
In that way we are to let the mind OF Christ as the source OF His faith working in us. We then can offer our gift of faith towards him as our amen to His faith working in us. (faith is a work)
The newly created faith as to the hearing of it, is the gift of God working in us, not a work of our own selves coming from the imaginations of ones own sinful heart. Natural mans source of faith, no faith coming from God. Not being able to see past their nose as to the unseen spiritual.
Faith, the unseen will of God is a work by which God works to in us to perform His good purposes. He makes our new hearts soft.
The faith OF Christ, the faith OF the Holy Spirit of God is the work of Christ our Faithful creator. When He believes something will happen he declares as a work what he hopes will happen and it does work out.
“Let their be light and there was”.
By believing a work will happen, God exercises (works) His belief by working in us as we are informed in Philippians 2 . Having believed we offer the faith that comes from hearing Him as our thanksgiving as an acknowledgement. Faith works two ways coming from another and our amen as to the agreement. Hebrews 4 calls it mixing faith in what a person does se our hear.
My added opinions in (purple parentheses)
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, "work out" (not work for to gain) your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you “both” to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi 2:12
James 2 begins with begins with the loving commandment... not to have the faith OF Christ as the work OF Christ as if it came from(OF)ourselves or any other person other than God. It is a imputed faith as a rightousness not of our own selves not coming from the imaginations of ones own heart. Faith is a work of God that cannot be separated as a labor of His love.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith OF our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord OF glory, with respect OF persons.
We can understand it is a work that is not of our own self, but all the same is a work. The conclusion in violting the commandment is that men accredit the work that comes from hearing God to their own selves or that of another man.
Blasphemy is to accredit the work of one to another sort of like plagerisism. The reason for the fall in the begining.
.Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
We cannot have faith IN Christ, towards Christ unless we are first given the faith OF Christ, OF God.
We are justified by works just not that of our own selves or Abraham, like us, because then we would have something to boast in.
Was not Abraham our father “justified by works”, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how (Christ’s) faith wrought with his works, and by works (OF God) working in Abraham was (Christ’s faith) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, “Abraham believed God”(according to the work OF Gods faith), and it (Christ's work OF faith) was “imputed unto him”( Abraham and Rehab) for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:23
There is no other way we could reconcile faith as a work unless it is imputed.
No faith... no work, no work.... no grace, no grace... no salvation.
From my experiences searching out the difference from the faith OF Christ from that OFour own selves, many seem to shy away from God as needing faith in order to work out the good pleasure of His will. having faith IN Christ coming from thier own self.This only shows they are not walking according to the faith of another (Christ the Faithful Creator.
Philippians 3:9 And be found IN him, “not having mine own righteousness”, which is OF the law, but that which is through the faith OF Christ, the righteousness which is OF God by faith:
Thanks gb9.
This is what conversation is about. Not attacking each other but discussing.
I appreciate that you're asking questions to clarify what I believe.
If I'm speaking to the COMMANDMENTS of JESUS, do you understand that I'm speaking of the two commandments He left us with?
Mathew 22:37-40
You shall love God and your neighbor as yourself. We can see that by following these two commandments we follow the entire Law, the Moral Law.
There were three type of Law to be followed in the O.T.
Moral Law
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
The civil and ceremonial Law has been abolished. The Moral Law has not been abolished because the Moral Law is a representation of the character of God and God does not change.
I'm Christian, not Jewish, so of course I know both the O.T. and the N.T. as any Christian should.
I believe we are members of the New Covenant and as such we are to follow the New Testament. The ceremonial and civil laws of the O.T. found in the Torah, as you mentioned, are most certainly not for us today. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are certainly not to be followed. Only the moral law found therein is to be followed.
As to Paul. Did he write in the N.T.? Are we to follow the N.T.? Yes. So then of course I've studied Paul.
As to theology, of course the entire bible is to be considered and verses are not to be taken out of context and doctrine is not to be based on any one verse.
I do hope that in the future we could discuss what is brought up and all misunderstandings will cease.
I would appreciate this.
To do this, you kind of have to do what you do when you read the bible. Read it with an open mind as if for the first time, with no presuppositions.
This is what conversation is about. Not attacking each other but discussing.
I appreciate that you're asking questions to clarify what I believe.
If I'm speaking to the COMMANDMENTS of JESUS, do you understand that I'm speaking of the two commandments He left us with?
Mathew 22:37-40
You shall love God and your neighbor as yourself. We can see that by following these two commandments we follow the entire Law, the Moral Law.
There were three type of Law to be followed in the O.T.
Moral Law
Civil Law
Ceremonial Law
The civil and ceremonial Law has been abolished. The Moral Law has not been abolished because the Moral Law is a representation of the character of God and God does not change.
I'm Christian, not Jewish, so of course I know both the O.T. and the N.T. as any Christian should.
I believe we are members of the New Covenant and as such we are to follow the New Testament. The ceremonial and civil laws of the O.T. found in the Torah, as you mentioned, are most certainly not for us today. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are certainly not to be followed. Only the moral law found therein is to be followed.
As to Paul. Did he write in the N.T.? Are we to follow the N.T.? Yes. So then of course I've studied Paul.
As to theology, of course the entire bible is to be considered and verses are not to be taken out of context and doctrine is not to be based on any one verse.
I do hope that in the future we could discuss what is brought up and all misunderstandings will cease.
I would appreciate this.
To do this, you kind of have to do what you do when you read the bible. Read it with an open mind as if for the first time, with no presuppositions.
.
Not sure what the emphasis on the Torah has to do with it?
If the Torah is the perfect law of God without the oral traditions of the fathers as their own person opinions then sola scriptura is the final authority . We do not need men to teach us. That would be the methodology of the antichrists. Oral tradition of men simply makes the word of God without effect in that way.
He saved the inward Jew born again of the Spirt of Chrsit the Holy Spirit of God....as a remnant of all Jews. God is no respecter of persons(sinners). Remember not all Israel is Israel. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ as a born again Christian, the new name He named His people, then neither do they belong to Christ our living God.
Not sure what the emphasis on the Torah has to do with it?
If the Torah is the perfect law of God without the oral traditions of the fathers as their own person opinions then sola scriptura is the final authority . We do not need men to teach us. That would be the methodology of the antichrists. Oral tradition of men simply makes the word of God without effect in that way.
He saved the inward Jew born again of the Spirt of Chrsit the Holy Spirit of God....as a remnant of all Jews. God is no respecter of persons(sinners). Remember not all Israel is Israel. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ as a born again Christian, the new name He named His people, then neither do they belong to Christ our living God.
W
if Cornelius would have died before Peter arrived his soul would have been saved because he was justified by God...he lived by the law of the conscience, and that was all that was required of him...after he received the gospel then more would be required (to whosoevr much is given much is required)......... how do you seem to get every story in the bible backwards? It truly amazes me...
W
and of course Cornelius had sins of ignorance, but not the vile sins of the flesh that would disqualify of from the kingdom...Cornelius was right with God or less God would not hear his prayers..(God does not hear the prayers of the wicked/sinners....God did even more than hear his prayers for they come up as a memorial to HIM....
fools lump all sins together to justify the vile sins that hey dont want to but to death in the baptism of repentance..
fools lump all sins together to justify the vile sins that hey dont want to but to death in the baptism of repentance..
In Luke 15, Jesus spoke to the pharisees and scribes who murmured because Jesus received sinners and ate with them (Luke 15:2).
The pharisees and scribes believed they were righteous and did not need to repent. The pharisees and scribes would never associate themselves with publicans and sinners, much less eat with them.
In Luke 15:7, Jesus rebuked the pharisees and scribes.
The verse does not indicate that Cornelius, Lydia, Nathaniel, Simeon, Anna, Zecharias, Elizabeth, and others did not need to repent. The verse indicates there is much joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over 99 people who believe they have no need of repentance.
The pharisees and scribes believed they were righteous and did not need to repent. The pharisees and scribes would never associate themselves with publicans and sinners, much less eat with them.
In Luke 15:7, Jesus rebuked the pharisees and scribes.
The verse does not indicate that Cornelius, Lydia, Nathaniel, Simeon, Anna, Zecharias, Elizabeth, and others did not need to repent. The verse indicates there is much joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over 99 people who believe they have no need of repentance.
I was struggling with these verses too. I even made a thread about it earlier asking about it.
Someone had a great reply I wish I could find it...... But basically if my memory serves me right, the answer in a nutshell went something like this:
We are justified by faith alone, in Christ alone. And that faith then produces fruit, which is sanctification, separate from justification.
Pretty much like that.
Someone had a great reply I wish I could find it...... But basically if my memory serves me right, the answer in a nutshell went something like this:
We are justified by faith alone, in Christ alone. And that faith then produces fruit, which is sanctification, separate from justification.
Pretty much like that.
