Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
#18,021
#18,021
eternally-gratefull said:

No, I read you right, That's why I reposted what you said.

You said convict and chasten were the same

No, The lord rebukes them, he does not convict them, Again, Why does someone who knows something is sin need that sin exposed.

He needs his heart exposed, not his sin.

You do not rebuke a person who is not a child of God, you convict them

You do not convict a child of God, you rebuke, or admonish them.

this is where understanding of the English language helps and context help.

Yes, the word (translated rebuke) CAN BE translated convict It does not mean that is the WAY it should be translated. and notice how none of the English interpretors translated the word convict, but all translated rebuke, admonish, correct, reprove, There is a reason, the English word convict does not fit the context.
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Yet if someone says convict it should be accepted in the Greek sense that the word can be translated as either and really depends on context.

Therefore it's mostly semantics, because it doesn't change the fact that the Holy spirit rebukes believers when they sin.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#18,022
#18,022
eternally-gratefull said:

No, I read you right, That's why I reposted what you said.

You said convict and chasten were the same

No, The lord rebukes them, he does not convict them, Again, Why does someone who knows something is sin need that sin exposed.

He needs his heart exposed, not his sin.

You do not rebuke a person who is not a child of God, you convict them

You do not convict a child of God, you rebuke, or admonish them.

this is where understanding of the English language helps and context help.

Yes, the word (translated rebuke) CAN BE translated convict It does not mean that is the WAY it should be translated. and notice how none of the English interpretors translated the word convict, but all translated rebuke, admonish, correct, reprove, There is a reason, the English word convict does not fit the context.
Click to expand...
Then it's semantics of the English language.

In Greek the word can mean convict, rebuke, reprove.

Therefore it doesn't matter to me which English word is used.
.the question can be rephrased .,,


Does the Holy spirit rebuke believers when they sin?

Yes or no?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#18,024
#18,024
eternally-gratefull said:
why does a believer need to have their sin exposed when they already know it is sin? That makes absolutely no sense.

I wish sometimes people would just think about what others are saying instead of assuming, it would be much easier to converse without all the problems of trying to show others what we mean.
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That's the whole point EG. Until God shows me it's a sin, I will deny that I am sinning.

Until God shows us the good we should be doing, it's not a sin to Not do those things.

However after we receive instruction from God to do certain things and refuse, then it becomes sin and we need to repent and have God's help to overcome.

God shows our hidden faults. That is what conviction/rebuke is used for.

It is used when we are in denial that what we doing is sinful and needs to stop and changed.

If people deny this need of the Holy spirit to rebuke and for His people to rebuke those who are blind to their sins and in need of repentance, then those people deny an importance minstry in the body of Christ called prophecy.
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,025
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#18,025
Ariel82 said:
When does God "convict believers of their righteousness in Christ"?

When they fall short of His glory and sin....thus God is convicting them of their sins and showing them a better way.

It sounds like semantics and an attempt to draw people out of the church by attacking "church traditions". What are they being drawn into? A new cultish group with its own language that tells them they aren't convicted of sins?
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Ariel

Most of us haven't even tasted of His glory. We fall short of it every day and not because we have sinned.

This thread is foundational stuff. Until the foundation is laid correctly...the building on it cannot proceed. And it's all of the Spirtual Kingdom where we sit with Jesus in the heavenlies now. Can we even see this?

There's so much to this great salvation. We have to move from the Courtyard into the Holy Place, and then to the Holy of Holies. And I'm not talking about praying.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#18,026
#18,026
Stones, if we have been born again, we have tasted of His glory.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18,027
#18,027
Ariel82 said:
Yet if someone says convict it should be accepted in the Greek sense that the word can be translated as either and really depends on context.

Therefore it's mostly semantics, because it doesn't change the fact that the Holy spirit rebukes believers when they sin.
Click to expand...
no one said the HS never rebuked a believer

they said he never convicts a believer

2 different things, and a whole lot of division based on context and word usage.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#18,028
#18,028
stonesoffire said:
It's the goodness of the Lord that causes men to repent. When we "see" Him...we are broken in flesh...and lifed in Spirit.
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That is not always true. Some people "see" Him and run and hide.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#18,029
#18,029
eternally-gratefull said:
no one said the HS never rebuked a believer

they said he never convicts a believer

2 different things, and a whole lot of division based on context and word usage.
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Yeah...you assume that he agrees with you. I would like to know if he really does.

G777. Does the Holy spirit rebuke believers when they sin?

What happened to iron sharpening iron?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18,030
#18,030
Ariel82 said:
Then it's semantics of the English language.

In Greek the word can mean convict, rebuke, reprove.

Therefore it doesn't matter to me which English word is used.
.the question can be rephrased .,,


Does the Holy spirit rebuke believers when they sin?

Yes or no?
Click to expand...
so context means nothing to you?

the discussion is not about rebuke, it is about convict, and no they do not mean the same in English

i would hope context does matter to you, I would pray your not going to judge a person because h takes a different interpreation of a word than you do.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,031
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#18,031
Ariel82 said:
When does God "convict believers of their righteousness in Christ"?

When they fall short of His glory and sin....thus God is convicting them of their sins and showing them a better way.

It sounds like semantics and an attempt to draw people out of the church by attacking "church traditions". What are they being drawn into? A new cultish group with its own language that tells them they aren't convicted of sins?
Click to expand...
While we were yet sinners....we fell under conviction of sin. Now we are the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus. And you must see this Ariel.

Am picking on you because I care.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#18,032
#18,032
stonesoffire said:
His blood flows within our Spirit man. You need a revelation of what it means to be born from above.
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His Spirit flows through our spirit self which starts out as a babe in need of milk, His blood is our outer protection against the spiritual forces of this world.

You need a revelation to understand what is spoken of when God says to put on your spiritual armor.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,033
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#18,033
Ariel82 said:
Stones, if we have been born again, we have tasted of His glory.
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At one time I might have agreed.

But, His glory is His actual Presence....if we partake of Him in this way fully? We will be with Him. This is rapture.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,034
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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113
#18,034
Ariel82 said:
His Spirit flows through our spirit self which starts out as a babe in need of milk, His blood is our outer protection against the spiritual forces of this world.

You need a revelation to understand what is spoken of when God says to put on your spiritual armor.
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Our armor is He Himself. His mantle. Sink back into Him and take on His person. love you Ariel.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#18,035
#18,035
stonesoffire said:
While we were yet sinners....we fell under conviction of sin. Now we are the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus. And you must see this Ariel.

Am picking on you because I care.
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I love you too stone and don't consider this "picking". I thought we were just having a discussion?

We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, but God roots us in Christ and we grow. God see us as we are and loves us enough not to leave us enslaved to sin but rebukes/reproved us of what needs to be changed and empowers us to overcome m
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,036
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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113
#18,036
Ariel82 said:
His Spirit flows through our spirit self which starts out as a babe in need of milk, His blood is our outer protection against the spiritual forces of this world.

You need a revelation to understand what is spoken of when God says to put on your spiritual armor.
Click to expand...
Here's a key...One. He prayed that we would be One with Him as He is with Father.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#18,037
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#18,037
Ariel82 said:
I love you too stone and don't consider this "picking". I thought we were just having a discussion?

We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, but God roots us in Christ and we grow. God see us as we are and loves us enough not to leave us enslaved to sin but rebukes/reproved us of what needs to be changed and empowers us to overcome m
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It's a discussion but I thought you might be feeling uncomfortable. Am glad you are strong. :)
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#18,039
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#18,039
Huh, a sin here, a sin there, a rebuke, a conviction, it sounds like a take it or leave it
approach.

This is James attitude to sin

Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.
James 4:8-10

How is it a believer who claims they follow Christ can not be cut to the heart
over sin, it is lets discuss which type of conviction this is, or is it a rebuke, and
should we feel bad, or uplifted and touched by Gods love?

Is this an insane asylum?

We take sin seriously, just do it every day, day in day out, same mistakes, same
failures, but we really know Christ and His resurrection power!!!!

Yer sure thing....
 
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