Not By Works

[Magenta]

I noticed you said nothing about PennEd..... I copied his words.

Ed often displays the love of God.

 

[Ariel82]

That does not mean turn from sin, it means change our thinking, and it means much more than what many in the church want t push.

A change in our thinking will have us turn from sin as we turn towards God and His plans,

 

[Limey410v2]

Folks think this is about two christian groups fighting over their doctrine..... not true.

One group isn't christian at all, but fallen away to false doctrine.

This is why this side constantly fights & bashes others..... such fruit doesn't belong to God.

My Christianity is not determined by doctrine. It is determined by Christ or I would call it my Doctrineanity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Apostasy without repentance leads to destruction. Hebrews 10:38-39: My righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

We, are those truly saved, as apposed to they, who are not,

we we are not of those who shrink back.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you would agree that faith without works is dead?

Yes, and dead faith will never save you, so people who have no work were never saved, agree?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 4:30 - "sealed" - a sign of ownership, was written to a certain group of people meeting a certain condition, that condition seen in Ephesians 1:1 - To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Those who stay faithful to end - stay sealed to the end.

Eph 1:13-14 whoever has faith will remain sealed till the end, not might be sealed, it says will not might

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grace777: Is eternal life conditional on staying faithful to Christ?

If It is conditional, it is not eternal Period

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A change in our thinking will have us turn from sin as we turn towards God and His plans,

yes it will because we turn from self,

 

[Meggido]

That does not mean turn from sin, it means change our thinking, and it means much more than what many in the church want t push.

It means more than mental assent as well...it means to completely forsake something....

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

whos were saved and how do you no someone sitting behind there typewriter who you cant see are saved ? (are you a physic...)..

How do you know some people are not living with an alterior motive.. a selfish ambishion..




I think its quite sad when people after 10000 pages cant come to an agreement...


especially when No one on earth who is living has recieved there salvation of meeting loved ones they once knew who are resting in peace..


That it in a nutshell YOU MIGHT BE SAVED WHICH IS A TYPE OF SALVATION BUT YOU ME EVERYONE LIVING AND BREATHING WHO HAVE LOST LOVED ONES HAVE NOT RECIEVED THERE REWARD OF BEING REAQUAINTED WHICH IS THE DAY OF SALVATION FOR ALL..............


when you understand this you may even start to understand the bible ..................god bless

@Jimbo43:
Final judgment belongs to God. I only quoted Scripture which clearly says that if someone doesn't have corresponding works of obedience, they have a dead faith, and a dead faith does NOT lead to eternal life.
Hebrews 3:6 - "Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope." Notice the conditional IF - - - we're part of God's house IF we hold fast. Eternal life is conditional NOT on saying the sinner's prayer twenty years ago, but holding fast until the end. Matthew 24:13 - "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It means more than mental assent as well...it means to completely forsake something....

yes, even demons believe, etc.. , mere belief never saved anyone

 

[BillG]

I noticed you said nothing about PennEd..... I copied his words.

Ok I have just seen PennEd post

Stephen, I will gladly humble myself. Whether I am right or whether I am wrong on various issues like the ones discussed here is completely secondary to the fact that YOU are my brother in Christ. You trust in the Blood of Jesus Christ to wash away your sin. As do I, AND Bruce. So I love you both Stephen.

Further, I think you are right in saying that Bruce's posts have taken a slightly harsher tone of late. Frankly, I'm surprised it has taken this long for his patience to wear thin, when day after day he is verbally assaulted and demeaned by many here.

For a year and a half he has displayed the kind of love and patience I pray to God to attain.

But think Stephen of the power YOU possess! Just imagine if you were to display love and grace to those that you disagree with on issues here. YOU have the power to change the whole attitude and direction of the BDF.

Actually every ONE of us here has that power. But to show others that the love of Christ burns in you, I'd implore you as your brother in Him to use that power!


May God Bless you and your family.

So my response to you was before I saw that.

But look at his response to you and compare it to your response to him which I posted my repsonse.

Look at what he has said about you.

But think Stephen of the power YOU possess! Just imagine if you were to display love and grace to those that you disagree with on issues here. YOU have the power to change the whole attitude and direction of the BDF.

Actually every ONE of us here has that power. But to show others that the love of Christ burns in you, I'd implore you as your brother in Him to use that power!

May God Bless you and your family.

You, me, and everyone on this site have the opportunity to show love and grace and walk accordingly and we are commanded to do so by Jesus.

To love each other.

To me with regards to the thread we all agree that faith saves, the issue is how that works out.
No one is denying that works as a result of faith should follow.

But to me if one builds on works that are deemed to be wood, Hubble and so on it will be burned up but the person will still be saved through the fire.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

You mean 1 John 5.

2Thess 2: 1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Yes, has faith and continues to have faith and stay faithful.

Eph 1:13-14 whoever has faith will remain sealed till the end, not might be sealed, it says will not might

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, has faith and continues to have faith and stay faithful.

nope, that is not what Paul said, he said the moment you have faith you ar sealed until day of redemption.

Plus, you do not lose far the in people unless they change, and they lose your confidence. Is God someone people lose confidence in? If he is, what dwe es that say about God?

 

[followjesus]

An interesting fact about Abraham being declared righteous by God Himself is that he was declared to be righteous by God because Abraham "believed God " - 15 years before he "offered up Isaac".

His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God. Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested.

There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

True righteousness which comes only from God's work in Christ always comes when we believe what God says is true which is all based on the finished work of Christ - by grace through faith when we heard the gospel message. We received the "gift of righteousness". Rom. 5:17

There are "fruits of righteousness" as James talks about which shows up in helping our fellow man in need but they do not create righteousness.

Being righteous in Christ comes first because of His work on the cross and resurrection. Getting this backwards creates a religion of self-righteousness and actually denies the work of Christ Himself.

Preach and teach the good news that Christ alone is our righteousness and then the fruit of His life will be manifested in "deeds of righteousness" as He bears His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace that our loving Father has for them.

We will see corresponding action or works that glorify God.

the first thing abram ever did was obey what God told Him to do, God said Get up and go where im telling you abram packed up and went. so its not as if abram refused to obey God and God was saying " your righteous" here take a look

this is the beginning of abrams story

Genesis 12:1-4 "Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran."


Obviously He believed God, or he wouldnt have got up and obeyed Him. abram is declared righteous long after this, long after His obedience from Faith. and this is actually the example used regarding abrams faith

Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. "

abram had been believing and obeying God long, looong before He was declared righteous for His belief and thats faith to believe and obey God, because you really do believe what He says.

 

[Zmouth]

yes, even demons believe, etc.. , mere belief never saved anyone

So what is the difference between the term 'believe' and 'faith' since many consider the two words to have the same meaning?

 

[BillG]

the first thing abram ever did was obey what God told Him to do, God said Get up and go where im telling you abram packed up and went. so its not as if abram refused to obey God and God was saying " your righteous" here take a look

this is the beginning of abrams story

Genesis 12:1-4 "Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran."


Obviously He believed God, or he wouldnt have got up and obeyed Him. abram is declared righteous long after this, long after His obedience from Faith. and this is actually the example used regarding abrams faith

Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. "

abram had been believing and obeying God long, looong before He was declared righteous for His belief and thats faith to believe and obey God, because you really do believe what He says.

Sorry but I'm confused.

At what point in time was Abraham considered righteous?
You say Abraham believed God and obeyed him "God told him to go so he did"
So he obeyed God

Then you seem to saying he was declared righteous long after he packed up his bags and went out.

 

[JIMBO43]

@Jimbo43:
Final judgment belongs to God. I only quoted Scripture which clearly says that if someone doesn't have corresponding works of obedience, they have a dead faith, and a dead faith does NOT lead to eternal life.
Hebrews 3:6 - "Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope." Notice the conditional IF - - - we're part of God's house IF we hold fast. Eternal life is conditional NOT on saying the sinner's prayer twenty years ago, but holding fast until the end. Matthew 24:13 - "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

there is only one works that will inherit a final reward of salvation and that is keeping the faith until the end... which is a works..

 

[Rosemaryx]

So what is the difference between the term 'believe' and 'faith' since many consider the two words to have the same meaning?

Hi Zmouth...Having Faith is believing in something you cannot see, hope this is correct...xox...