Not By Works

UnderGrace · Aug 23, 2017

I so enjoyed this analogy Joanie.

I can totally relate to paying bills on time and how anxiety provoking that can be even with online banking.

That feeling is not how we should relate to God and really it does not please Him, He is our Heavenly Father who loves us dearly that He Himself who had no blame became the scapegoat for all humanity.

He wants us to relate to Him in a love relationship of freely giving and receiving as only love can because He first loved us.

joaniemarie said:

Rosemaryx · Aug 23, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Hi UG...I have come to a conclusion

...I am no longer looking for Scriptures or spending my time worrying about what happens to those who do not believe...I have learned from last night that as long as i know i am secure in Jesus then that is what matters...I must admit i was fine about my walk with the Lord before i came into this thread lol, it was only seeing so many views about how one can lose their Salvation that blew me side ways and back again

...I am 22 months saved, so i do not really believe that i should be worrying about these things as i am a sapling with not many branches, so as long as the Peace of our Lord is in me and i continue on my narrow path, i will stay away from the questions that do not concern me...I want to grow in our Lord, not fear my Salvation, and that is what was happening...I need all of God`s good nourishment to feed me, build me up, not go off into the big thread thinking i can walk on my own because i can`t lol...But saying all that, i have learned a lot from different posters, picked up some real gems a long the way, so it`s been good to

...xox...

Stunnedbygrace · Aug 23, 2017

willybob said:

stonesoffire said:

I agree too! Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It is absolutely key to walking in victories!

eternally-gratefull · Aug 23, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Remember, Jesus promises to cling and hold onto us, and never let us go,

to me abiding means allowing God to work through you, depending on age, and not depending on self, when we try to do it ourselves, we are not abiding.

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

All is well! .........

...

Nothing can separate you from the love of God which is in our Lord. This is where knowing the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that is in Christ comes in handy. Rom. 5:17

Knowing that you are not condemned because you are in Christ and He is in you to stay forever. This is called acceptance grace and it is not based on what we do or don't do as can be seen in how Jesus related to the woman caught in adultery.

Knowing about this acceptance grace and being cemented in this knowledge of the work of Christ for us will release the empowering grace that is in Christ to walk free from all things.

Here is a short 6 minute video speaking just about the flesh which may help you - this knowledge ahs helped me immensely in my walk with the Lord.

[video=youtube;wYQxHB-U6NU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYQxHB-U6NU[/video]

Rosemaryx · Aug 23, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi EG...Yes i get that now, SOF pointed out also that it was me doing the work, doing the clinging, doing the holding on for dear life...Now as you said also, it is He who is holding me with His Righteous right hand

...xox...

PHart · Aug 23, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Keep trusting in God's forgiveness and you have nothing to worry about.

Rosemaryx said:

You're the only one who knows if and when you are in danger of not believing anymore. But the point is, don't stop believing. That is how you stay secure in Christ's eternal life.

Some believers have a bigger struggle with continuing to believe than others. It's a personal struggle that has to be worked out between them and the Lord. Some of us haven't been to that place, so we need to be sensitive to those who are at that place, especially since some trial or tribulation in life may bring us to our own place of struggling with continuing to trust.

What I see too many people do is write off the possibility that they could ever stop believing simply because they've never been tested that way.

PHart · Aug 23, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

You must hold fast the word in order to be saved. We do that necessary holding fast through the power of God's love and encouragement. If we don't seek his help to hold on we will not be saved. This has nothing to do with holding on in our own strength to be saved. That is impossible to do. It's all about holding onto the word of faith through a reliance on God's strength and encouragement.

Just because God's strength is how we hold fast to the word to be saved doesn't mean we don't have to do any holding fast the word. The point is, we do that holding fast through God's encouragement. We have to seek that strength to receive it.

Stephen63 · Aug 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

You are welcome....

..

This truth of Christ's work and that we are circumcised from our body of flesh by the circumcision of Christ is paramount in growing up in Him and seeing the true new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.

This is another truth about that we are safe in the Lord because we are in Christ - even if our minds get screwed up from wrong belief. True faith is of the heart and not the head when we hear the gospel message of Christ. Rom. 10:9-10.

Once we are circumcised - we cannot go back to being uncircumcised. This truth is reality in the natural as the old skin dies and becomes no more ( just like the old man did on the cross with Jesus ) - it is true for us in Christ too. The new man in Christ is righteousness because we are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here is a great teaching that speaks to this subject of "Why do we still sin?" - if interested.

[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]

Andrew Farley is a hypergrace preacher listed on both Paul Ellis' & Dr. Brown's site.

I've come to expect that, since that's all G777 shows.

BTW, it's against the rules to post hypergrace material.

Then again, breaking the rules in this thread has become a favorite pastime for some.

Limey410v2 · Aug 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Ha, todays verse of the day :

Romans 8:39 [TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 500, align: center"]
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[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Stunnedbygrace · Aug 23, 2017

willybob said:

eternally-gratefull said:

So I hear you asking, what does continued and growing trust have to do with being cut off or not being cut off?

So He said if anyone DOESN'T abide(continue and grow in trust), he is cut off.

So maybe I should define what "cut off" means to me. To me, it means to be severed from the one who gives me life and to wither up and be thrown in the fire.

So to me, the verse is saying anyone who does not continue to, remain in, and grow in trust of Me and My words, will produce no fruit and will wither up and die and will be cast into the fire.

And this is why He sees to my abiding, (why He grows my trust - and only He can cause the growth, even if someone else plants or waters).

So I find that the verse does not make me want to argue. It makes me want to run the race to trust Him more and more. It's all through trust, from beginning to end.

Limey410v2 · Aug 23, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Why not focus more on the scriptures and learning about that my friend?

Instead of attempting to derail.

I think we are all starting to have some good discussion here, even whilst not agreeing with each other, but you are continuing to insert personal comments about folks.

Let's talk about our reasons for disagreeing, instead of personal attacks. I don't mean this from a place of judgement my man, just observation.

UnderGrace · Aug 23, 2017

it is so true this discussion board sometimes is less helpful than helpful.

So many schools of thought. I just stick to the basic message of the gospel.

I found this discussion board when I was going through some self-condemnation that someone else was putting on me, He was telling me I could loose my salvation it I did not follow all the commands of Jesus perfectly and that I better have a veil on my head when I prayed and buying a coffee at Starbucks was a sin, and pictures were idolatry and on and on... I did not really believe him thankfully I do have a brain but it planted a seed of doubt.

I knew from years of group bible study that what he was saying could not be true, all my sins were forgiven.

But I needed to be sure I could not loose my salvation and so in my search, was reading both sides of the argument, but then I found posts by G7 and others like mailmandan, EG and I knew I could not be condemned, God just revealed that truth to me so strongly I cannot even tell you how it removed the bondage I had come under of always looking at my sin.

When you absolutely know you cannot be condemned because of what Jesus has done, you will find you look less at sin and you will sin less. The more you look at sin the more sin conscious you become.

Be still in Him, let Him take care of you...He wants to, He loves you dearly!!!!

"Be still, and know that I am God!
Psalm 46:10

Rosemaryx said:

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2017

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

There is a vast difference from "believing in our heart and in our minds". Our minds can get all messed up but our hearts have been created in righteousness and holiness. We are one spirit with the Lord and we are safe in Him.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us and with us forever. John 14:16

We can have our minds messed with wrong beliefs from our personal experiences as well as terrible teachings - from I believe are well-meaning Christians but they read into the scriptures that we can be "un-saved" which is as false as one can get without denying Christ Himself - IMO.

The proper renewing of our minds will keep us from being swayed by anything that takes away from the finished work of Christ.

Getting "saved" is simple but it is not any greasy grace or easy believism or any other derogatory term that is used to disparage the grace of Christ - but it is all based on the shedding of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ who obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Stephen63 · Aug 23, 2017

Limey410v2 said:

Why not focus more on true doctrine and getting rid of false doctrine my friend?

Instead of attempting to hold on to heresy.

I posted about those breakin the rules on CC, posting hypergrace videos & quoting hypergrace writers.

Why do you want me to stop that?

Are you hypergrace too?

preacher4truth · Aug 23, 2017

PHart said:

Don't Stop Believin'? The Gospel isn't a song from Journey.

Utter, heretical nonsense. Total man-centric false gospel. You like those of your ilk talk little of Christ and mostly of man.

Everyone saved knows all this believing, works, &c is due to God working in the believer, which will never be undone; Philippians 1:6, 1:29; 2:12ff; Romans 8:28ff. All these Scriptures show your glaring error, the tenses of Romans are a completed transaction that cannot be undone.

The Scriptures you would reference to back up your false conclusions are not warnings to believers about stopping their belief, they are warnings that they could be false converts. So spare me. Thanks.

Rosemaryx · Aug 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Enjoyed that and was spoke in a simple way...It`s so true, it`s our old self...This tells me that i need to re-new my mind on areas that i am weak in...It`s no good me reading Scripture about anger if i do not suffer with anger, i need to re-new my mind and have my mind set and keep set...Sin does make us miserable, nothing good comes from it, in my case with alcohol it is a self destruction thing...Thank you for the post Grace...xox...

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2017

Here is what was said from the mod about the "term - hyper-grace" being used. It's the behavior of people that made the mods step in to stop people from bringing up the term.

It was also people that were putting up threads attacking other ministers in the body of Christ.

This produced bad behavior and the reality is people that keep bringing up the term are violating the requests of the mods so that we can have a respectful discussion without all the malice and slandering of others in the body of Christ with our foul behavior.

Quote:

BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.

Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1

Unquote:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

Stephen63 · Aug 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Quoting half-truths is more deceitful than telling outright lies.

Quoting verses without immediate context allows twisting of God's word.

15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Grace777x70 · Aug 23, 2017

Here is an excellent article addressing "Just what are the commandments of Jesus?"

( Hint: it has nothing to do with following the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way which was a "shadow" of things to come nor has it to do with "doing good works to keep one saved" -Jesus alone is the Savior. - but it has everything to do with the true Sabbath rest which is found in Christ Himself and what He has already done in His finished work.)

I like to use this site from time to time as it gives a grace-based view of the finished work of Christ. it also has a place at the bottom where people can ask questions. I have found I have learned much from that area too.

John 14:15 – The Commands of Jesus

If God loves us unconditionally, how do we account for those scriptures that link His love with our obedience, like this one:

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (Jn 14:15)

A legalist reads this backwards: “You will keep my commandments if you love me.”

In other words, we must prove our love for God by doing what He commands.

Commandment-keeping is our duty, a condition we must meet if we are to enjoy His love.

But someone who is walking in grace reads it just as Jesus said it. He understands that keeping His commands is a by-product of love.

Paul explains this in Romans 8:3-4, but let me give you an everyday example inspired by something I read.

"Here in New Zealand we have a big problem with domestic violence. Consequently, there are many laws governing the responsibilities of fathers. Break any of these laws and you might go to jail or have your kids taken away.

It’s a serious business. But to be honest, I couldn’t tell you what these laws are. I’ve never read them. Yet I can confidently declare that I am keeping every one of these laws.

How do I know? Because I love my kids. I don’t keep the laws to show the authorities that I love my kids and I don’t relate to my children on the basis of these laws. I relate to them on the basis of love and keeping the laws of the land flows naturally from that love relationship.

I know the laws serve a good purpose, but they weren’t written for me. They were written for fathers who don’t love their kids."

Similarly, the laws found in the Bible were not written for those who love Jesus (1 Tim 1:9). Contrary to what the legalist may tell you, keeping the laws to earn what He freely offers is a surefire sign that you don’t know the love of God.

A legalist reads the words of Jesus above and sees a threat. Do the commandments or else! But love makes no threats. Jesus is returning for a bride and it won’t be a shotgun wedding.

What are the commands of Jesus?

The next time someone tells you that you must keep the commands of Jesus to prove your love, ask them, “what are the commands of Jesus?”

They will probably respond with the greatest commandment which is, “love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul” (Mt 22:38). This is fine, I guess.

But if you insert that command into the phrase above it becomes, “If you love me, you will love me with all your heart, mind and soul,” which is kind of redundant.

If you read John 14:15 in context, you will see that on this occasion Jesus is referring to two specific commands. Here’s the first:

“A new command I give you: Love one another….” (Jn 13:34)

And here’s the second:

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me… Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves” (Jn 14:1,11)

How can we be certain that these are His commandments? Because John – who was there when Jesus spoke these words – says so in one of his letters:

“And this is His command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.” (1 Jn 3:23)

What does it mean to keep His commands?

Lest we dilute His commandments to accommodate our experience, Jesus outlines His expectations of obedience for both. Here’s what He expects from the first:

“As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (Jn 13:34)

How did Jesus love us? By laying down His life for us (Jn 15:3). That’s a high standard of love! Indeed, there is no greater love. And what are His expectations regarding the second commandment:

“I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these…” (Jn 14:12)

Believe in Jesus and you will do the works of Jesus. Put it altogether and Jesus is saying this:

“If you love me, you will love one another as I have loved you and your faith in me will lead to miracles like I have been doing and greater miracles still.”

If you’ve been in any church for at least five years, you will know that Jesus’ first commandment is pretty much humanly impossible to keep, while the second commandment is definitely impossible.

So the next time someone tries to lay a heavy burden on you by telling you that you must keep Jesus’ commandments to earn God’s love, just ask them how many people they’ve raised from the dead!

When they look puzzled, tell them that Jesus commanded us to believe in Him and He said that those who did would do the same works He did and greater works besides!

Now that we begin to understand what Jesus wasn’t saying – He wasn’t saying that we need to keep His commandments to prove our love – we’re ready to dig deeper into what He was saying.

That’s the subject of the next post. You won’t want to miss it. When you see what Jesus was promising His disciples and you, it’s going to blow you away!

Maybe you’ve been intimidated by John 14:15 and the other new covenant laws. If so, prepare to be set free. When you get a hold of the words of Jesus you’re going to be so pumped that you’ll want to frame them and hang them on your wall. Stay tuned!

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone wants to look at the questions or to see the next post as he mentioned at the end of the article.

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/06/03/john-14v15/

Not By Works

UnderGrace

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