We choose Jesus or Jesus choose us

[shrume]

Instead of going ad hominem, which is your practice, why not receive what I said about Scripture and accept correction? Scripture refutes your teachings, so stop teaching it?

Be like; "I stand corrected, thanks!"

You need to follow your own advice.

The Reformed/Calvinist view of God is not true. God did not, and does not, arbitrarily choose whom He will save.

God really does want all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). God wants the wicked to turn from their evil ways so they might live (Eze 33:11). We are to preach the gospel so people have a chance to hear it so they can CHOOSE to believe, and become saved (Rom 10:9; Eph 1:13). God gave us the ministry of reconciliation, and committed to us the word of reconciliation. We are ambassadors for Jesus Christ, and are to preach the gospel so people can choose to believe and become reconciled to God (2 Cor 5:18-20). Noah found grace in the eyes of God because he was a preacher of righteousness (2 Pet 2:5).

 

[1ofthem]

Amen!!

There is something to be said about the word "whosoever." Salvation is offered to all. (John 3:16) We were originally created to choose for the purpose of a reciprocating love relationship. If we are restricted from choosing, love is stifled because love isn't a "one way street."

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

Amen...really good post...God wants us to love him and choose him because we want to. He doesn't force it upon any and he doesn't turn any that chooses him, away either.

 

[trofimus]

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

Salvation, like invitation to a wedding in words of Jesus, is preached to all. Only some accept it with faith and live according to this faith. Why?

Also, the verse translation you used is strange, there is no "will have":
"...who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

One of God's attributes is undending love. This love leads Him that He wants all people to be saved. And so its good when we reflect His love and pray for everybody to be saved.

Then there are other reasons why some people will not be saved and why God will not act on the first attribute attitude in their cases. Theologians call this "first and second will".

 

[IamWhoIam]

So verse 26 is a Gospel presentation, and those who came were given eternal life?

what are your thoughts did those who came to the lord of their own will, do you think they were given enternal life?

Furthermore has the day God will punish those who sin, has that day passed yet?

 

[stonesoffire]

Before either one had did anything good or bad, it was said "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." It wasn't because God looked down the pike and saw what Esau would do. Before he did anything at all, God hated Esau.

No brother, I disagree. It was because God knows the end from the beginning.

He also knew what Adam and Eve would do. And is why Jesus was crucified before the foundation of the World. All His plan, the three who are One...from the beginning of our time.

Time is only of our earth. Not of heavenly realms.

 

[Jackson123]

BINGO!!!!! However, God can and does. And until He does, they'll remain spiritually dead, even whilst physically alive.

Faith come from hearing. Muslim, buddhis etc able to hear the gospel If they not deaf.

 

[Jackson123]

Is there any other attributes you have studied about God other than love? Sheesh.

Just, patient, spirit etc

 

[Jackson123]

But why they did what they did? You just need to go one step back in the chain.

Why is somebody "good" and somebody "bad"? Why somebody believes and some does not? Why somebody does what is right and somebody does not?

if some body believe in Jesus, abide in Him, they bear the fruit of agape love.

 

[trofimus]

Faith come from hearing. Muslim, buddhis etc able to hear the gospel If they not deaf.

Please, read the context of the verse. It says the right opposite, that it is not about the ones who hear, but about grace of God.

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did..."
Rom 11

 

[John146]

No, my Brother, it's found in Genesis 6. That's not my opinion at all, but biblical truth. If God chose Noah based upon the fact he wasn't as wicked as the rest, then Noah found merit in God's sight, and not grace.

Agree, the only reason God spared Noah is because his generations were perfect. His generations had not been corrupted by the sons of God. The preserved generation line of Genesis 3:15 is named in Genesis 5.

 

[trofimus]

if some body believe in Jesus, abide in Him, they bear the fruit of agape love.

I do not know what you mean by "agape love", you said "love love" (agape = love in Greek).

And I agree with you. I just do not agree with who is the primal agent in this process. I think it is the Holy Spirit, not something of me.

 

[Jackson123]

This given to His covenant ppl, not the whole world indiscriminately.

Deut is for Israel, I just use the model of cause and effect, bless is an effect of obey.

 

[John146]

No brother, I disagree. It was because God knows the end from the beginning.

He also knew what Adam and Eve would do. And is why Jesus was crucified before the foundation of the World. All His plan, the three who are One...from the beginning of our time.

Time is only of our earth. Not of heavenly realms.

The passage is found in Malachi. This is referring to the nations that came from the two boys.

 

[Jackson123]

Then, according to you, God is a respecter of ppl. The Bible says differently in Acts 10:34 & Romans 2:11.

Brother, your theology is all over the place.

I do not understand what It mean. God say : for God so love the world, so He .....whosoever believe ...Will save

is that mean God respecter ?

that is what He say, couse (believe ) effect (save)

 

[IamWhoIam]

Agree, the only reason God spared Noah is because his generations were perfect. His generations had not been corrupted by the sons of God. The preserved generation line of Genesis 3:15 is named in Genesis 5.

Adam was sinless, perfect you may say, until Adam had chosen not to listen to God.

Noah had chosen to listen to God and did everything God instructed him to.

genesis 6:22
Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

 

[trofimus]

I do not understand what It mean. God say : for God so love the world, so He .....whosoever believe ...Will save

is that mean God respecter ?

that is what He say, couse (believe ) effect (save)

But you do not want to accept that belief has also a cause and is an effect of something.

 

[1ofthem]

Roman 10
[FONT=&quot]8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We can hear it all day long but if we don't obey what it says then it will do us no good. The scripture plainly says that if we confess it with our mouth and believe it in our heart then we shall be saved. (vs 9)

And Yes, Israel heard but they were not obedient to it...so we know they had a chance but they would not accept it... [/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

Adam was sinless, perfect you may say, until Adam had chosen not to listen to God.

Noah had chosen to listen to God and did everything God instructed him to.

genesis 6:22
Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Amen...It was their choice...God didn't make Adam disobey him. Adam done that on his own free will.. even though God had told him not to do it and warned him about what would happen if he did it beforehand.

 

[trofimus]

And Yes, Israel heard but they were not obedient to it...so we know they had a chance but they would not accept it... [/FONT][/COLOR]

And Bible also says why they some were obedient and some not. All we must do is to read next:

"But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people...
I have reserved for myself seven thousand..." So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

 

[Jackson123]

Please, read the context of the verse. It says the right opposite, that it is not about the ones who hear, but about grace of God.

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did..."
Rom 11

faith come from hearing It doesn't mean every body WHO hear believe. It is a free Will, up to the man to believe or not. But unbeliever have the capability to hear AS long AS not deaf.