Not By Works

[Amberlight]

I knew you are going to say but that is incorrect.

To be a martyr in biblical sense is to die for your faith being persecuted for your faith.

It is not to die in hands of a robber.

Robbers are robbers.

Did Jesus tell apostles to martyr themselves by dying in hands of robbers ? No he told to carry a sword against them.
Did apostles die for the faith (except one who apparently died of old age) Yes they did as persecuted for their faith.

I know this is purely a debate for you and you have no interest in ether way.

I am here purely to say what is scriptural and there is nothing further to say.

 

[loveme1]

Sooo, if someone broke into your home, and attacked you or a family member, you wouldn't grab a weapon of some sort to defend yourself? You'd just let yourself get raped, robbed and killed? If someone breaks into a person's home, the homeowner has the right to use deadly force if necessary. I'm not saying to kill them, but at least try to wound them. People like that should expect to get shot if they break into someone's home..

On that thought.. a British or American soldier is on Afghan/ Iraq soil.. are the people there Justified in protecting themselves from the invaders? Who decides which of us has the right to kill over the other? You see going to a country and attacking them in the name of freedom because they have different beliefs to your own is not what Christians are to do according to the New Testament.

So it comes down to what are we fighting for? And many will say the freedom to have our beliefs... yet all those who come before us were persecuted and did not wage physical warfare... Spiritual is to die for our Faith. Those that live by the sword die by the sword.. so can we be a frontline soldier if we are children of GOD and I don't believe so.

 

[loveme1]

The military is really just our international police force. I'm of the opinion that it's okay to take dangerous people off the streets with deadly force whether it's right here at home in my neighborhood, or in a foreign country. People, who if left to themselves, will only kill and destroy. Sometimes the only thing you can do with a criminal or a rapist or a murderer is kill them to protect the rest of us. That's what you do with dangerous, unreasoning 'animals'....you kill them.

"But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed..." (2 Peter 2:12 NASB)

I wish someone had gotten to the Vegas killer and killed him before he killed so many. The harsh reality of life is that is what we sometimes have to do: Kill someone before they hurt others. That's what our police and armed forces are for.

My understanding is that they perish through their own corruption...

I understand the way of the world and the evil therein.. yet we are to be seperate and My thought is can Christians carry out those duties?

I believe vengence is GOD's


Romans 12


14Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. 17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[blue_ladybug]

The American military does not kill Afghans or Iraqis based on their religious beliefs. Those people have been at war with us for decades, since long before I was born.. They're defending their land and their people, just as the U.S. military is defending our people and our land.. The military doesn't go to these countries with the intention of killing Muslims or whoever just because they're Islamic..

I recall alot of killings in the bible. Cain and Abel. David and Goliath. And most notably of all, JESUS.. None of them were killed because of their religion or lack thereof..

And Phart, it's not for you or anyone to question the status or sincerity of any military person's Christianity, simply because they announce that they're a current or former war vet..

On that thought.. a British or American soldier is on Afghan/ Iraq soil.. are the people there Justified in protecting themselves from the invaders? Who decides which of us has the right to kill over the other? You see going to a country and attacking them in the name of freedom because they have different beliefs to your own is not what Christians are to do according to the New Testament.

So it comes down to what are we fighting for? And many will say the freedom to have our beliefs... yet all those who come before us were persecuted and did not wage physical warfare... Spiritual is to die for our Faith. Those that live by the sword die by the sword.. so can we be a frontline soldier if we are children of GOD and I don't believe so.

 

[loveme1]

The American military does not kill Afghans or Iraqis based on their religious beliefs. Those people have been at war with us for decades, since long before I was born.. They're defending their land and their people, just as the U.S. military is defending our people and our land.. The military doesn't go to these countries with the intention of killing Muslims or whoever just because they're Islamic..

I recall alot of killings in the bible. Cain and Abel. David and Goliath. And most notably of all, JESUS.. None of them were killed because of their religion or lack thereof..

And Phart, it's not for you or anyone to question the status or sincerity of any military person's Christianity, simply because they announce that they're a current or former war vet..

But to question a persons sincerity because they believe different to yourself is okay.. as in all the accusation toward Phart and Peterjens is fine..

And I knew you would reach for the Old Testament to defend.. yet you want the New Testament at other times...

To defend your land on home soil is different to invading a country and killing those who believe they are defending theirs.. that is why we should not be tangled with these wars... either way my belief is that we are not to partake.. based on the New Testament instruction to us...

i don't judge for all sin is forgiven except the One.. I'm asking others for their view.. mine is clear according to the New Testament by which I live through Faith.

It would be a Christian that is on the front line in those countries fighting for freedom and peace according to man.

I don't believe we should partake.. and will die by the sword rather than live by it.

 

[AbigailZeke]

[video=youtube;l5CujW5MokY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5CujW5MokY[/video]

 

[He_reigns]

I noticed that too. And I know you're being polite when you say 'talkers'. And it isn't just the fact that they have military backgrounds but that they make sure the rest of us know it. That always tells me a lot about a person.

Thank you for your service (and I mean that) but let's leave it that, okay? We were paid for our service, let's move on.

Thank you for addressing this in a respectful way

 

[blue_ladybug]

So the USA, or any country, should just drop their weapons and let the enemy kill us/them?? The USA is hated by all other countries.. THAT's why we're at war.

But to question a persons sincerity because they believe different to yourself is okay.. as in all the accusation toward Phart and Peterjens is fine..

And I knew you would reach for the Old Testament to defend.. yet you want the New Testament at other times...

To defend your land on home soil is different to invading a country and killing those who believe they are defending theirs.. that is why we should not be tangled with these wars... either way my belief is that we are not to partake.. based on the New Testament instruction to us...

i don't judge for all sin is forgiven except the One.. I'm asking others for their view.. mine is clear according to the New Testament by which I live through Faith.

It would be a Christian that is on the front line in those countries fighting for freedom and peace according to man.

I don't believe we should partake.. and will die by the sword rather than live by it.

 

[TruthTalk]

Sooo, if someone broke into your home, and attacked you or a family member, you wouldn't grab a weapon of some sort to defend yourself? You'd just let yourself get raped, robbed and killed? If someone breaks into a person's home, the homeowner has the right to use deadly force if necessary. I'm not saying to kill them, but at least try to wound them. People like that should expect to get shot if they break into someone's home..

Amen! Jesus wants the husband to protect and care for the household or he is worst than and infidel.

“When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.” Luke 11:21

“But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” Luke22:35

Many more bible verses about protecting your family, country

 

[PHart]

And Phart, it's not for you or anyone to question the status or sincerity of any military person's Christianity, simply because they announce that they're a current or former war vet..

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world." (1 John 2:16 NASB)

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The boastful arrogant Christian who makes it a point to tell you about what he has and what he does (or did) still has some growing up to do.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Christian has to be de-programmed from the training he receives in the military. Especially Marines. They are programmed to think and believe they are the greatest most powerful beings on earth, and to act like it. You think I'm kidding? That attitude is completely and totally incompatible with the Christian life. It has it's place in the military mind, but not in the mind of Christ. [/FONT]

 

[gb9]

some Christians need to be de-programmed from believing that they know what others think and from being judgemental.

 

[loveme1]

So the USA, or any country, should just drop their weapons and let the enemy kill us/them?? The USA is hated by all other countries.. THAT's why we're at war.

Who is the enemy? Who hates the USA? What is the war about?

I never read the ending of the USA defeating evil in the world..

I know there is deep rooted patriotism in America and the right to bare arms is part of your rights according to your founding fathers.. but i genuinely believe that a Child of GOD should not partake. I think of all those Christians that were like pilgrims and persecuted tortured and see not the cause for the flag.. for flags divide but Christ unites us.

You could have a Christian abiding in Iraq and a Christian soldier invading.. which one as the right to kill the other?

 

[TruthTalk]

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world." (1 John 2:16 NASB)

The boastful arrogant Christian who makes it a point to tell you about what he has and what he does (or did) still has some growing up to do. (Are you serious).

The Christian has to be de-programmed from the training he receives in the military. "Especially Marines.", They are programmed to think and believe they are the greatest most powerful beings on earth, and to act like it. You think I'm kidding? That attitude is completely and totally incompatible with the Christian life. It has it's place in the military mind, but not in the mind of Christ.

Paul is on his 2nd missionary journey to Rome where he will receive his second trial before Caesar. A Paul along with a Centurion save's a countless number of lives. God shows favor to Worrier's, King David being just one of them.

"Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.” So the soldiers cut the ropes that held the lifeboat and let it drift away." Acts27:31,32

"Deprogrammed", Yes Phart, the US Armed Forces, US Coast Guard and Police force, (Biblical Centurion's), are there to serve and protect it's Citizen's and possibly lay down their life in the line of duty. And they offer their sacrifice to Country and Citizen's for, even people "like you"

 

[Deacon_D]

He who don’t work, don’t eat.

 

[TruthTalk]

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world." (1 John 2:16 NASB)

The boastful arrogant Christianwho makes it a point to tell you about what he has and what he does (or did) still has some growing up to do.

The Christian has to be de-programmed from the training he receives in the military. "Especially Marines." They are programmed to think and believe they are the greatest most powerful beings on earth, and to act like it. You think I'm kidding? That attitude is completely and totally incompatible with the Christian life. It has it's place in the military mind, but not in the mind of Christ.

Repost: spelling

Paul is on his 2nd missionary journey to Rome where he will receive his second trial, this time before Caesar. Paul along with a Centurion save's countless number of lives. God shows favor to Worrior's, King David being just one of them.

"Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.” So the soldiers cut the ropes that held the lifeboat and let it drift away." Acts27:31,32

"Deprogrammed", Yes Phart, the US Armed Forces, US Coast Guard and Police force, (Biblical Centurion's), are there to serve and protect it's Citizen's and possibly lay down their life in the line of duty. And they offer their sacrifice to Country and Citizen's for, even people,
"like you"​

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah, there are MANY who want to believe that they are SAVED because they intellectually acknowledge that all the stories about JESUS are TRUE. But even the Demons believe that much.

Yes, even the demons intellectually acknowledge the historical facts about Jesus and they believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) yet they DO NOT BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. In other words, they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Unfortunately, there are many people who intellectually acknowledge the historical facts about Jesus (and even refer to Him as Lord), yet they trust in works for salvation (instead of in Christ alone) and are not saved, yet believe they are saved (Matthew 7:22-23).

 

[He_reigns]

Amen! Jesus wants the husband to protect and care for the household or he is worst than and infidel.

“When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.” Luke 11:21

“But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” Luke22:35

Many more bible verses about protecting your family, country

What does Luke 11:14-23 have to do with a husband protecting his family? Could you break this down? While you are at, Maybe you could also break down What Mark 3 and Matthew 12 wrote about this as well. I really struggle to see your application of this scripture to fit the point you are making.

Why would Jesus be telling us how to protect our Homes, when he was talking to pharisees,in these 3 passages and not disciples/husbands?

 

[He_reigns]

Repost: spelling

Paul is on his 2nd missionary journey to Rome where he will receive his second trial, this time before Caesar. Paul along with a Centurion save's countless number of lives. God shows favor to Worrior's, King David being just one of them.

"Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.” So the soldiers cut the ropes that held the lifeboat and let it drift away." Acts27:31,32

"Deprogrammed", Yes Phart, the US Armed Forces, US Coast Guard and Police force, (Biblical Centurion's), are there to serve and protect it's Citizen's and possibly lay down their life in the line of duty. And they offer their sacrifice to Country and Citizen's for, even people,
"like you"​

What does Acts 27:31-32 have anything to do with what you are chest thumping about?

 

[He_reigns]

Who is the enemy? Who hates the USA? What is the war about?

I never read the ending of the USA defeating evil in the world..

I know there is deep rooted patriotism in America and the right to bare arms is part of your rights according to your founding fathers.. but i genuinely believe that a Child of GOD should not partake. I think of all those Christians that were like pilgrims and persecuted tortured and see not the cause for the flag.. for flags divide but Christ unites us.

You could have a Christian abiding in Iraq and a Christian soldier invading.. which one as the right to kill the other?

More American Christians place their faith in their physical weapons and the political process, than in the King they give lip service to by saying they serve him.

 

[Deacon_D]

Yes, even the demons intellectually acknowledge the historical facts about Jesus and they believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) yet they DO NOT BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. In other words, they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Unfortunately, there are many people who intellectually acknowledge the historical facts about Jesus (and even refer to Him as Lord), yet they trust in works for salvation (instead of in Christ alone) and are not saved, yet believe they are saved (Matthew 7:22-23).

The Bible states that Moses kept God’ house and Jesus kept His own house.