Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hi Stonesoffire, You have multiple questions. I do think Jesus would want us to "preach the Gospel" wherever, and whenever He leads us, street preaching included, 'after His ascension even more so. This is my simple answer but I may not be on target, my recovery is good but slow....
"Then the master told his servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in', so that my house will be full." Luke14:23
"All who sin apart from the law 'will also perish apart from the law', and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." Romans2:12
Answer, yes I think you are right.
"Then the master told his servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in', so that my house will be full." Luke14:23
"All who sin apart from the law 'will also perish apart from the law', and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." Romans2:12
Answer, yes I think you are right.
Just so you know what I want to post is in no way disagreeing with you because the truth is that Jesus said
Mark 16:15
15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
I don't know what you think but we need to be the gospel to others.
Not just talk the talk but walk the walk.
Just like Jesus did.
Words that put bums on seats is different from walking with the bums on those seats.
The bums of the society that Jesus came for and loved and walked with.
The hurting, the marginalised, the misfits, the despised and so on.
There is no point opening the front door of the church if they then walk out the back door because we the church have not been the gospel.
As I said my post is not going against what you said.
It just breaks my heart to see people who need Jesus and come to church to leave because all that is done and said is words.
I sit with the alcoholics who come in, the druggies, those who during the service go out for a top up or to have a smoke.
And yes send some have just come to Jesus.
Yet alas there are still some in the church who raise eyebrows and say "You shouldn't be doing this"
The church needs to be ready to be the gospel and walk the walk.
I do not disagree here at all. We do know Jesus took 3 years to make his disciples. We also know 12[not Judas] were divinely promoted to Apostle after he ascended into heaven.
The woman at the well is great example of sharing the gospel and making converts, but not 1 on 1 intentional discipleship.
In fact, the rest of her fellow Samaritans told her they did not believe any more based on her witness, but because they heard for themselves he was the Messiah.
John 4:[SUP]41-42
41 [/SUP]Many more believed because of His word; [SUP]42 [/SUP]and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”
Discipleship cannot be whittled down to just follower, the word means much more than simply following or follower.
The woman at the well is great example of sharing the gospel and making converts, but not 1 on 1 intentional discipleship.
In fact, the rest of her fellow Samaritans told her they did not believe any more based on her witness, but because they heard for themselves he was the Messiah.
John 4:[SUP]41-42
41 [/SUP]Many more believed because of His word; [SUP]42 [/SUP]and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”
Discipleship cannot be whittled down to just follower, the word means much more than simply following or follower.
The 10 commandments are God's words and God is LOVE (1 john 4:8&16) and LOVE is the fulfillment of the law, and LOVE for God is to OBEY His commandments.
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.”
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. THE WORDS i have spoken to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.
Jeremiah 36:2 “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now.
John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN. The light shines in the darkness, but the DARKNESS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD IT.
Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; YOU HAVE A REPUTATION OF BEING ALIVE, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Titus 1:15-16 to the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. THEY CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.
John 15:20-22 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE FOR THEIR SIN.
Romans 6:15-16 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? BY NO MEANS! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Romans 2:8-16 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who HEAR THE LAW who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who OBEY THE LAW who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when GENTILES, WHO DO NOT HAVE THE LAW, DO BY NATURE things REQUIRED by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2:26-27 If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is NOT CIRCUMCISED physically and YET OBEYS THE LAW will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY THE LAW by this faith? Not at all! Rather, WE UPHOLD THE LAW.
Mark 7:6-9 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have LET GO of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions!
Mark 7:13 Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Romans 8:4-7,14 in order that the RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of the law might be FULLY MET in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. because those who are LED by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Romans 9:4-5 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, THE COVENANTS, THE RECEIVING OF THE LAW, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the GENTILES, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
Romans 13:8-10 LOVE, for the Day Is Near Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW..
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.”
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. THE WORDS i have spoken to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.
Jeremiah 36:2 “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now.
John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN. The light shines in the darkness, but the DARKNESS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD IT.
Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; YOU HAVE A REPUTATION OF BEING ALIVE, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Titus 1:15-16 to the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. THEY CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.
John 15:20-22 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE FOR THEIR SIN.
Romans 6:15-16 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? BY NO MEANS! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Romans 2:8-16 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who HEAR THE LAW who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who OBEY THE LAW who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when GENTILES, WHO DO NOT HAVE THE LAW, DO BY NATURE things REQUIRED by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2:26-27 If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? The one who is NOT CIRCUMCISED physically and YET OBEYS THE LAW will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY THE LAW by this faith? Not at all! Rather, WE UPHOLD THE LAW.
Mark 7:6-9 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have LET GO of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions!
Mark 7:13 Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Romans 8:4-7,14 in order that the RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of the law might be FULLY MET in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. because those who are LED by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Romans 9:4-5 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, THE COVENANTS, THE RECEIVING OF THE LAW, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the GENTILES, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
Romans 13:8-10 LOVE, for the Day Is Near Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW..
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
1 John 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us
As a result of his love we obey him.
He does not love us because we obey. We cannot earn that love. It's freely available.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
If we get it Wrong he still loves us.
Hi BillG I agree and let it begin with me. The Church where I began to grow in Christ Jesus disciplined within its membership. If you do not discipline, "new believers", from the beginning you will end up with a Corinthian type Church with many problems. There are more knowledgeable people on this forum who work with ex-gang members, drug addicts and homeless folks, who will have solutions to new believer's who come into the local Church.
The Program our Church found successful was called, "Clean up your Acts", where a believer like you and I came along side of someone with many issues to help them back on their feet. If God is leading you maybe you should start a ministry in support of the homeless and less fortunate folks. Yes I am on the mend thank you, but its a slow plow getting better, God bless,
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." Matthew18:15-17
The Program our Church found successful was called, "Clean up your Acts", where a believer like you and I came along side of someone with many issues to help them back on their feet. If God is leading you maybe you should start a ministry in support of the homeless and less fortunate folks. Yes I am on the mend thank you, but its a slow plow getting better, God bless,
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." Matthew18:15-17
Last edited:
God loves us so much to the point of giving us His only begotten Son Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Do we not ought to love God by OBEYING His commands?
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
Hebrews 5:7-10 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Good morning from the Philippines and God bless us all. GOD IS LOVE!!!
1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
Hebrews 5:7-10 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Good morning from the Philippines and God bless us all. GOD IS LOVE!!!
Thanks for responding.
The me what I am trying to convey and reveal, is that the people I am taking about are not in church membership.
They have cube come to church because they heard the gospel, when they do then let's be the gospel.
Then if they come into church membership (and I hate that use that term) then we disciple and do not discipline.
However I do agree if after discipleship then discipline is needed it should be enacted.
But we need to be very careful as to what constitutes sin that leads to discipline.
What say you the sins that would lead to discipline.
The me what I am trying to convey and reveal, is that the people I am taking about are not in church membership.
They have cube come to church because they heard the gospel, when they do then let's be the gospel.
Then if they come into church membership (and I hate that use that term) then we disciple and do not discipline.
However I do agree if after discipleship then discipline is needed it should be enacted.
But we need to be very careful as to what constitutes sin that leads to discipline.
What say you the sins that would lead to discipline.
Would you not say it's a response out of love and not to prove our love. Yes Jesus came to earth to show us his love and proved it.
When we love him back we obey and prove it, not for approval but because we love.
Enjoy your day and may God bless you brother.
It's bedtime over here in the UK.
So me is retiring.
When we love him back we obey and prove it, not for approval but because we love.
Enjoy your day and may God bless you brother.
It's bedtime over here in the UK.
So me is retiring.
Sons are birthed now beastslayer, not disciples. But, Sons are instantly born on the streets and in church settings too. Any place God speaks is a place where a son can be born again. But, I understand your point. It takes teaching for a son to know who and what they are.
Its the difference of the ministry of reconciliation from what we hear from pulpits Sunday mornings. Or maybe it's just my experience. Maybe all of you heard you were dead with Jesus so we could rise with Him too in eternal life?
I heard over and over about being a sinner in sins. It took me a long time before I knew that God calls me righteous in His Son. The very righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Raised with Him in righteousness. How awesome is this!
What i heard, I passed on. I can see why my evangelism wasn't so successful. Lol
I had my eyes opened a bit wider with these passages in Corinthians.
Do you all get it though? Father looks at all of us as the same. No one person better than another. All dead in sins. Nobody is looking for God. I know that we've read this but how many believe it? How many want to ascribe some kind of goodness to themselves, by saying, I was always looking for God.
nope! All dead in sin. That we all can be raised with Him. All! Who would refuse?
To choose this would imo pierce every hardened heart for its perfect love flowing from God.
When a man with many works, usually has a lot of sin to hide.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Every accidental speed in speeding is IS SIN.
Every no-liter rule IS SIN.
Every no parking rule in you park IS SIN.
Every posted you must pick up your dog poop, IS SIN.
Every posted low noise rule and loud radio IS SIN.
Every no smoking rule, if you smoke, IS SIN.
Every non-stop at intersection controlled by a stop sign, IS SIN.
NO MATTER any of these signs you choose to vilolate, IS SIN.
AND YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE YOU DO NOT SIN.
So sorry, I did in fact misunderstand you, it was not you, it was me.
I have posted right here and on this thread and other threads that we are dead in Christ and raised into newness of life with him [See all of Romans 6, not just verse 23] and as a result of being raised into new life we are no longer a sinner, but a born again saint,and one that will still sin, because we are not perfect or sinless, but the new man should not be entangled by sin and has power over sin, because the work of reconciliation done by Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ, give us our choice back regarding sin.
Not one person said anything about this truth. I was told by many in this thread and other threads to shut up, because I was pushing sinless perfection. The real to good to be true gospel, is that we died with him and then are raised into newness of life with him. This is the whole message found in all of Romans 6.
So I shut up and refused to post a truth you seem to have found, so good for you, I do mean this. This is the truth that sets people free. Satan loves a believer to think they are still a poor old sinner saved by grace, when the Bible teaches you become a new creature, a sin-forgiven saint, that will still sin because we are not perfect or sinless, but we are given grace to overcome sin and not let us entangle us, so we are free to run our race unrestrained.
You would think that everyone would jump for joy about this, and many do. Most do not because they do not see it as clearly as the Spirit showed you, but when they do see this truth...this truth sets them free and not to go live a sin filled life, no ma'am, but to live a Titus 2:11-15 life, which means victory now, not later, which means overcoming now, not later.
This is the life more abundantly that Jesus came to bring us.
I have posted right here and on this thread and other threads that we are dead in Christ and raised into newness of life with him [See all of Romans 6, not just verse 23] and as a result of being raised into new life we are no longer a sinner, but a born again saint,and one that will still sin, because we are not perfect or sinless, but the new man should not be entangled by sin and has power over sin, because the work of reconciliation done by Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ, give us our choice back regarding sin.
Not one person said anything about this truth. I was told by many in this thread and other threads to shut up, because I was pushing sinless perfection. The real to good to be true gospel, is that we died with him and then are raised into newness of life with him. This is the whole message found in all of Romans 6.
So I shut up and refused to post a truth you seem to have found, so good for you, I do mean this. This is the truth that sets people free. Satan loves a believer to think they are still a poor old sinner saved by grace, when the Bible teaches you become a new creature, a sin-forgiven saint, that will still sin because we are not perfect or sinless, but we are given grace to overcome sin and not let us entangle us, so we are free to run our race unrestrained.
You would think that everyone would jump for joy about this, and many do. Most do not because they do not see it as clearly as the Spirit showed you, but when they do see this truth...this truth sets them free and not to go live a sin filled life, no ma'am, but to live a Titus 2:11-15 life, which means victory now, not later, which means overcoming now, not later.
This is the life more abundantly that Jesus came to bring us.
Thanks bro. I remember getting my transcient(C1D).visa approved first before I can go to the USA to work as an F&B staff in a cruise ship travelling the Carribean & South America. I thought we still need approval to get to heaven or the new earth/new Jerusalem.
New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
Have a good night sleep bro.
New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
Have a good night sleep bro.
When a man with many works, usually has a lot of sin to hide.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Every accidental speed in speeding is IS SIN.
Every no-liter rule IS SIN.
Every no parking rule in you park IS SIN.
Every posted you must pick up your dog poop, IS SIN.
Every posted low noise rule and loud radio IS SIN.
Every no smoking rule, if you smoke, IS SIN.
Every non-stop at intersection controlled by a stop sign, IS SIN.
NO MATTER any of these signs you choose to vilolate, IS SIN.
AND YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE YOU DO NOT SIN.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Every accidental speed in speeding is IS SIN.
Every no-liter rule IS SIN.
Every no parking rule in you park IS SIN.
Every posted you must pick up your dog poop, IS SIN.
Every posted low noise rule and loud radio IS SIN.
Every no smoking rule, if you smoke, IS SIN.
Every non-stop at intersection controlled by a stop sign, IS SIN.
NO MATTER any of these signs you choose to vilolate, IS SIN.
AND YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE YOU DO NOT SIN.
I do not expect VCO to answer this, because I know he is recovering from a stroke, and I have prayed that God would restore him fully. I do have to comment on his post and if he can answer that would be great. I am not trying to intentionally frustrate him or others, and wanted the thread to know that, so I am not needlessly attacked for picking on a brother whose health is recovering.
What is the opposite of disobeying all the signs?
Are you telling us a person cannot mature to the point that one day they can obey all these signs and do so everyday?
If a person does obey all these signs and everyday does that make this person perfect and sinless or does this make a person who has matured in regards to these signs and mature enough to not violate them out of love and respect for sign makers and the things they seek to enforce?
Now please VCO and anyone, think about this. The quick answer is to say nobody can obey those signs all day and everyday and to instantly go to sinless perfection.
Now along these lines let me ask you something, Do you stop at all red lights? You most likely do, because it is a instinct developed in you starting at drivers ED. You do not go through all red lights because bad things happen.
If you have mastered the ability to stop at all red lights, how can you not say that about maturing against sin?
Now how many times have you gone a whole day and during that day you stopped at 50 out 50 red lights, and never ran one that day? You have matured to the point you did not run any of those 50 red lights, right? lets say now, you have matured to the point that you will NEVER run a red light, not even doing a rolling stop can tempt you. Praise God, through intentional obedience, doing what is right and teaching your Spirit to intentionally and instinctively stop at a red light, you do not run red lights anymore!
Now you might run a red light every now and then, and the same is for sin, but the point is, running red lights is not habitual to you any more, it is more instinctual and practical for you to stop at a red light now. The same for a particular sin, you might do that sin once in a great while, but it is no longer entangling you.
Does that make you perfect?
Absolutely not, because you continue to fail to yield, because to yield when nobody is there to yield to, Well, this just drives you nuts. So you have matured over running red lights, but now have to work on learning to yield.
This is how Jesus taught us to live, while here on earth.
Last edited:
Do you with that Paul had not put this verse in there:
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
AND THESE VERSES by Peter:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
But, alas HE DID, GOD DID EVERY VERVE IN SCRIPTURE.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
AND THESE VERSES by Peter:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
But, alas HE DID, GOD DID EVERY VERVE IN SCRIPTURE.
E
When a man with many works, usually has a lot of sin to hide.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Every accidental speed in speeding is IS SIN.
Every no-liter rule IS SIN.
Every no parking rule in you park IS SIN.
Every posted you must pick up your dog poop, IS SIN.
Every posted low noise rule and loud radio IS SIN.
Every no smoking rule, if you smoke, IS SIN.
Every non-stop at intersection controlled by a stop sign, IS SIN.
NO MATTER any of these signs you choose to vilolate, IS SIN.
AND YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE YOU DO NOT SIN.
1 Timothy 1:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief:
1 Peter 2:13-17 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether to the king, as supreme;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or unto governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evil-doers and for praise to them that do well.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For so is the will of God, that by well-doing ye should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, and not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Every accidental speed in speeding is IS SIN.
Every no-liter rule IS SIN.
Every no parking rule in you park IS SIN.
Every posted you must pick up your dog poop, IS SIN.
Every posted low noise rule and loud radio IS SIN.
Every no smoking rule, if you smoke, IS SIN.
Every non-stop at intersection controlled by a stop sign, IS SIN.
NO MATTER any of these signs you choose to vilolate, IS SIN.
AND YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE YOU DO NOT SIN.
The first command says we are to love our God with ALL our heart. ALL our mind, and ALL our soul.
Anyone who thinks he can obey this command 24/7 is pretty much fooling himself..
2 Corinthians 5:14 The love of the Messiah controls us, for we are convinced of this: that one person died for all people; therefore, all people have died.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.
2 Corinthians 5:12 We are not recommending ourselves to you again but are giving you a reason to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who are proud of outward things rather than inward character.
If we could do any of the commandments 24/7, wouldn't there be something to boast about?
What God has done for us is to put sinful humanity to death, raised us back up as a new creation. Given us His very own Spirit, and He is creating within us His own image.
Do we have to sin? We will if we see ourselves as sinful.
Romans 2:4, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and tolerance, and patience, not knowing that the kindness of YHWH leads you to repentance?”
1 Corinthians 1:28-31, “And יהוה has chosen the low-born of the world and the despised, and the ones that are not, that He might bring to naught the ones that are, so that no flesh should boast in His presence. And of Him you are in Messiah יהושע, who became for us wisdom from יהוה, righteousness also, and set-apartness and redemption, that, as it has been written, “He who boasts, let him boast in יהוה.” (Jer 9:23-24)
Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”
1 Corinthians 1:28-31, “And יהוה has chosen the low-born of the world and the despised, and the ones that are not, that He might bring to naught the ones that are, so that no flesh should boast in His presence. And of Him you are in Messiah יהושע, who became for us wisdom from יהוה, righteousness also, and set-apartness and redemption, that, as it has been written, “He who boasts, let him boast in יהוה.” (Jer 9:23-24)
Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”