Is the great biblical flood real or not?

[Locutus]

Radiometric Dating

Good link there written by a Christian scientist, not some leg of ham..

 

[PlainWord]

The flood was indeed global but at the time there was only one continent called Pangaea. The mountains were not nearly as tall pre-flood as they are today. About 100 years after the flood, in the "days of Peleg" the land was divided (Gen 10:27). As Pangaea broke up, the new continents drifted rapidly aligning in the way we see them today. India slamming into Asia caused the incredible heights of the Himalayas that we have today. The other tall mountain ranges were formed in much the same way.

Thus, Mt. Ararat and all the other mountains of today were not the same height as they were before the flood. The flood therefore did not need to reach 30,000 ft to cover Mt. Everest. Noah and those in the ark could not have survived being at 30,000 feet as the lack of oxygen and extreme cold would have killed most of the life on board. I doubt, therefore, that the waters reached much more than 10,000 ft. The dramatic change in the earth's surface likely buried the ark forever.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Note: if the text is too small to read, hold down the [Ctrl] key while rolling your mouse roller UP!

wow, that was awesome. i hope i remember that tomorrow.

There is a side here that no one has contemplated, or at least any that I have seen. We are aliens on this planet. We did not somehow come from molten rock that once covered earth, we came from afar

.

And those aliens that planted the seed of life on this planet are still with us today and yes, they played a part in the creation of Genesis

At least in my view -

Technically. Jesus is an alien. What makes a person an alien? Not coming from this planet correct? Jesus when He created this planet, did not come from the Earth. He came from somewhere else which we call Heaven. Jesus came from outer space and created the Earth. Therefore Jesus is not from the Earth but from somewhere else, making Him an alien to Earth. Now granted Jesus being an alien made Himself a human and was present in the flesh of Jesus Christ around 2,000 years ago. But Jesus existed prior to the Earth ever being created, and comes from Heaven, which makes Him an alien.

Technically. The spirit that is in us, is also alien. Because the Spirit in us comes from God which is in Heaven.

Technically. The Holy City Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven to the Earth. Humans will call it a UFO, or a "Mother Ship"

Technically. satan and his demons are all aliens, because they all were kicked out of Heaven to the Earth.

Anything not from this Earth is alien to this planet.

Technically a moon rock is an alien rock, being not from the Earth.

Technically anything that is mortal is from Earth, but anything that is immortal is from Heaven, which could be seen as alien.

Technically, this topic is unimportant if you believe it or not believe it, it has nothing to do with Salvation.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

What does the Bible actually say about the Genesis Flood? In Genesis 1:6-9 we read,

Gen. 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen. 1:7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen. 1:8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen. 1:9. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. (KJV)

In verse 6, we read that God created a firmament that divided the waters that were under the firmament from the waters that were above the firmament—but what was the firmament? Merriam Webster’s online dictionary (which in print is Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary—Eleventh Edition) give us the following definition:

Scriptures interprets Scriptures.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

So then according to Scriptures the Firmament is our Atmosphere.

: the vault or arch of the sky :heavens

The Oxford University dictionaries, of which there are several, concur. The English word ‘firmament’ is a translation of the Hebrew word, רָקִיעַ. In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,

The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).

Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).

For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse” as some people incorrectly claim, please see this article :

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te...s/text/articles-books/seely-firmament-wtj.htm

The KJV and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum. Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).

Some may ask, why do not our English translations of the Bible translate the word רָקִיעַ as dome? The answer to that question is simple—the translation ‘dome’ throws a monkey wrench into the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11, and readers of the Bible more often than not prefer the traditional interpretation of Genesis 1-11 over a precisely accurate interpretation. However, the translators of the New Revised Standard Version sought to appeal to readers who care much more about biblical accuracy than they do about tradition, and hence they correctly translate the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’. The New American Bible also translates the word רָקִיעַ as ‘dome’.

If the ‘windows’ (NRSV) or ‘floodgates’ (KJV) in the dome through which “The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights” (Gen 7:12) were real—it necessarily follows that the dome was also real. [In Gen. 1:8, God called the dome ‘heaven’ (Heb. שָׁמַיִם), and, therefore, the windows of heaven (Heb. שָׁמַיִם) in Gen. 7:11 were windows in the dome]. Believing in the flood while denying the reality of the windows in the dome, as some do, is disbelieving the historicity of Genesis 1-11. Either both are historical—or neither are historical, and the earth was not, in 2349 B.C., a flat disk or square plate covered with a dome with floodgates in it! God is not a liar, and He never said that Genesis 1-11 is an accurate account of historical events. Indeed, Genesis 1-11 is a collection of divinely inspired stories written and woven together to teach us basic truths about ourselves and our Creator. Genesis 6-8 is one of these stories, and how sad it is that some Christians use it to castigate men and women who have devoted their lives to the study of God’s word on an academic rather than elementary level.

When the Earth was created, there was the Earth which consisted of land, rivers, lakes, and ponds. (NO seas, or oceans) Above the Earth was our Atmosphere. Above our Atmosphere was a layer of water, x miles thick. The condition of the Earth at this time (because of that layer of Water) allowed all living things to live extremely long lives. Noah was 600 years old when he began to build the Ark. When God decided to flood the Earth, that layer of water above our atmosphere slowly started to fall, via rain for 40 days and 40 nights. After that layer came down, the Earth consisted of land, rivers, lakes, ponds, seas, and oceans. Long age was done away with because we no longer had the protection from the Sun by that layer of water.

God is going to restore that layer of water above the atmosphere for His 1,000 year reign on Earth, Long age will be restored to prior flood conditions. Restoring this water to the ozone layer (below, in, or above, i know not) will need a great deal of heat and centrifugal Force. This happens during the 7 year Tribulation Period. There will be great destruction on the planet, and there will be no more seas or oceans (Rev 21:1), because all that water will return to the layer in which it came from.

Is it so hard to believe there was a layer of water around this planet? Does not Saturn have a layer of water around it's planet? Wait, those are rings of ice. Isn't ice a form of water? If Saturn were to move closer to the Sun, say the same distance as Earth, would that ice rings melt and be water around the planet. If Saturn can have a form of water around its atmosphere. why is it so hard for this generation to imagine that Earth could to. Scriptures even teach that it did.

Gen. 1:7. And God made the firmament (atmosphere), and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:

So our atmosphere separated the water below from the water above.


Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

If you want to read more about what God told me concerning this matter read the article "New Heaven / New Earth"

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
I

 

[Sagart]

The flood was indeed global but at the time there was only one continent called Pangaea. The mountains were not nearly as tall pre-flood as they are today. About 100 years after the flood, in the "days of Peleg" the land was divided (Gen 10:27). As Pangaea broke up, the new continents drifted rapidly aligning in the way we see them today. India slamming into Asia caused the incredible heights of the Himalayas that we have today. The other tall mountain ranges were formed in much the same way.

Thus, Mt. Ararat and all the other mountains of today were not the same height as they were before the flood. The flood therefore did not need to reach 30,000 ft to cover Mt. Everest. Noah and those in the ark could not have survived being at 30,000 feet as the lack of oxygen and extreme cold would have killed most of the life on board. I doubt, therefore, that the waters reached much more than 10,000 ft. The dramatic change in the earth's surface likely buried the ark forever.

The appearance on a Christian website of such ludicrous nonsense as is this should bring Christians to their knees in prayer that such severely ill-informed Christians would get a grip on reality rather than on such shear nonsense! Indeed, such absurd claims as are found in this post make Christians appear to be intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia!

Pangaea began to break apart into several techtonic plates approximately 175,000 million years ago! For professional documentation of this statement, please see:

Rogers, John J. W.; Santosh, M. Continents and Supercontinents. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004.

 

[DiscipleDave]

1. How do you account for the fact that approximately 3,000,000 scientists who have earned at least one doctorate in a filed of science believe that the earth is billions of years old; and that all (everyone of them) of the approximately 45 scientists who have earned at least one doctorate in a field of science believe that the earth is les than 12,000 years old?

lol. believe 3,000,000 humans over God's Word. wow.

Tell me. When Jesus walked the Earth 2,000 years ago, and He turned water into wine how was that done? Wine takes time to ferment correct. It takes a lot of time to make a Good tasting wine, correct. Yet Jesus mad wine in an instant. How did He do that? How can a second old, wine taste be the best wine served at the wedding?

Now during that time, you got 3,000,000 scientists to test that wine that Jesus just made, tell me. how old do you think all of them would affirm that wine is? Would they not all say "This is a very old wine, for the fermenting process to get to the point that it is now would take well over a year to make" and all 3,000,000 of them would concur. Yet how old is the wine? a second old.

Another example. Jesus on a couple of occasions had a few fish and a few loaves of Bread. But somehow Jesus turned a few fishes into hundreds of fishes. Now tell me. If those 3,000,000 scientists with all their learning would have taken one of those fish that Jesus made appear out of thin air, how old do you think those scientist would say those fish are? Would they hold an average size fish in their hands and say this fish is a second old? NO they would not, they would examine the teeth, they would examine the size of the fish, they would examine the apparent age of the fish. Then after all their calculations they agree the fish is around 2 years old. When in reality that fish is a second old.

Can God make a diamond appear in thin air? To say He can't is just plain wrong. Now if God creates a diamond out of thin air. How long do you suppose those 3,000,000 scientists would say it took for that diamond to be made? hundred years? a thousand? Yet God just made it a second ago. That diamond is a second old.

Can a rock be a second old? Scientist would say that is not possible. dirt has to be under pressure for x amount of time before it would become a rock. Can God make a rock appear out of thin air or not?

So God can make wine out of water. And God can create fish and bread out of thin air. And this generation thinks God is not capable of doing exactly what He says He did in Genesis. Why? Because these 3,000,000 scientist with all their earthly wisdom and knowledge has told us that is not possible. Scientist believe what they see with their eyes.

Answer me. Could God create an entire planet out of thin air in 6 days? Yes or No. ( Not asking if He would, not asking for reason why He wouldn't, But asking YOU, can God create a planet in 6 days or do you think God could not do that? Yes or No)

Now Regardless of your answer above. Scriptures plainly teaches that He did create the Earth out of thin air in 6 days. i choose to believe the Word of God over 99 Billion learned scientist, scholars, and what have you. Humans pathetic. God awesome.

2. How do you account for the fact that the approximately 3,000,000 scientists who have earned at least one doctorate in a filed of science and believe who that the earth is billions of years old represent every major Christian denomination, and everyone of the worlds major religions; while all of the 45 scientists who have earned at least one doctorate in a field of science and believe that the earth is less than 12,000 years old are radicalized Christian fundamentalists—none of whom can read so much as a little bit of Hebrew, and who know nothing at all about how biblical scholars for the past 150 years have interpreted the first eleven chapters of Genesis?

i don't have to account for anything they have to say or believe. i merely believe God not men.

3. Are you aware that the age of the earth has been VERY reliably measured and found to be 4.54 billion years old?

So. i believe God can create an entire planet in 6 days like He said He did. And on the Eighth day Those same scientists that you put on a pedestal would examine the Earth God just made and say this Earth is 4.54 Billion years old. When in reality God just made it. lol. believe men over what God says. How does that not upset God? God can create a Tree by merely saying "Tree" and POOOOPH a Tree pops into existence. Get those same scientists to examine that one second old tree and what will they say? They will say "We have taken a section out of the tree and it has 577 rings. Therefore this Tree is 577 years old. LOL. God just made that tree a second ago. But because the scientist saw with their eyes the rings, they believe the tree to be 577 years old. Let them who claim to be intelligent remain ignorant to the power of God. God creates the Earth in 6 days. The scientist examine with their eyes and they say it is 4.5 billion years old. Believe men and remain ignorant, or believe God and know the TRUTH.

For an excellent article written from a theologically conservative Christian perspective that explains in detail how the age of the earth has been measured, please follow this link:

Radiometric Dating

For an excellent article concerning how old the Earth is read the Word of God, not the pathetic words of men.

If God creates a ROCK out of thin air and they Radiometric Dated that Same ROCK, they ( the Scientists) would say that rock is 1.5 million years old. Faith dictates you believe because God said so. But woe to those who try to convince others to not believe God but to believe men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

The appearance on a Christian website of such ludicrous nonsense as is this should bring Christians to their knees in prayer that such severely ill-informed Christians would get a grip on reality rather than on such shear nonsense! Indeed, such absurd claims as are found in this post make Christians appear to be intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia!

And this is a comment from a person who is full of Love One for another? Sounds to me like you are one of those learned people, who believe things they can see, touch, taste, feel, and hear. And believes in PROOF, But lacks Faith.

Pangaea began to break apart into several techtonic plates approximately 175,000 million years ago!

Does Scriptures teach that, or do learned men teach that? Thank God we can choose.

For professional documentation of this statement, please see:

i choose to believe Scriptures, not what men teach as proof.

Rogers, John J. W.; Santosh, M. Continents and Supercontinents. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004.

Are you asking me to believe man over what God plainly teaches? Sorry, i choose to the believe the Word of God over what humans teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Sagart]

Scriptures interprets Scriptures.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

So then according to Scriptures the Firmament is our Atmosphere.

A technically correct translation of Genesis 1:20 reads:

Genesis 1:20 And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.” (NRSV)

God gave us the Old Testament in Hebrew, and a very careful analysis of the Hebrew text of Genesis makes it very clear that the Old Testament does not say that birds fly “in the open firmament of heaven.” On pages 237-238 of his article (THE FIRMAMENT AND THE WATER ABOVE; Part I: The Meaning of raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] in Gen 1:6-8) in the Westminster Theological Journal (WTJ 53 (1991) 227-240), PAUL H. SEELY writes,

Does any statement or phrase appear in the OT which clearly states or implies that the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] is not solid? Does anything in Genesis 1 state or imply the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] was not (or was) solid? The fact that it was named "heaven(s)" in Gen 1:8 and birds fly in the heaven(s) (Deut 4: 17) seems to imply the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] was not solid. But the word samayim (heaven) is broader in meaning than raqia[SUP]c[/SUP]. It encompasses not only the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] (v. 8; Ps 19:6; 148:4) but the space above the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] (Ps 2:4; 11:4; 139:8) as well as the space below (Ps 8:8; 79:2). Hence birds fly in the heavens, but never in the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP]. Rather, birds fly upon the face or in front of the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] (Gen 1:20).

This phrase upon the face (surface) or in front of the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] is important in that it implies the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] was neither space nor atmosphere. For birds do not fly upon the surface or in front of space or air, but rather in space or air. This distinction is illustrated in the case of fish, which no one would say swim upon the surface or in front of the water (Gen 7: 18) but rather in the water (cr. Exod 7: 18, 21).

Gen 1:17 also testifies that the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] is not air or atmosphere for it says that God placed the stars (and probably the sun and moon) "in the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] or the heavens." But the stars are not located in the air or atmosphere. So we know the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] (in which 1:17 locates them) cannot be air or atmosphere. Even if 1:17 is construed as phenomenal language, the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] still cannot be air or atmosphere. For the stars do not look like they are located in the air or atmosphere. Rather (as anyone can tell on a clear night away from city lights) they look like they are embedded in a solid vault which is exactly why scientifically naive peoples believe in a solid vault, and why 1:17, in accordance with that belief, says God placed the stars in the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP]. Gen 1:14-17 is such a clear proof that the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] is not air or atmosphere that some conservatives have tried to dissociate the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] in vv. 14-17 from the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] in vv. 6-8. But the statement in v. 14, "Let there be lights in the firmament or heaven," immediately raises the question, What "firmament of heaven"? To which the context immediately replies, the firmament of vv. 6-8 which was called heaven. The contextual identity of the two firmaments is really beyond question. Taken in context it is impossible to say the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] of vv. 6-8 was just air or atmosphere.

On the contrary. For when God divided the light from the darkness (two intangibles) nothing was made. But in order to divide the tangible upper ocean from the lower ocean the raqia[SUP]c[/SUP] was made (hWf). The combination or dividing two tangibles (as opposed to intangibles) with something that was made (hWf), a verb which often means "manufacture," implies a tangible, i.e., solid divider. It would be unnatural to use hWf to say that God made space. Nor is it a particularly apt word for saying God made air. If a nonsolid divider had been in mind for separating the primeval ocean, the idea could have been communicated in a much more natural way. It could have been simply said that God put room (Mvqm) or space (Hvr ) as in Gen. 32:16 (17), or space (qvHr) as in Josh 3:4, between the two bodies of water. If air (a word never appearing in the OT) had been in mind as the divider, Hvr ("wind") could have been used, as in Exod 14:21, or hmwn ("breath") as in Gen 2:7; Ps 150:6.​

 

[Sagart]

lol. believe 3,000,000 humans over God's Word. wow.

There is no conflict whatsoever between the word of God in the Bible and the truths that God, in His sovereignty, has taught us through men whom He has blessed with an excellent education.

Now Regardless of your answer above. Scriptures plainly teaches that He did create the Earth out of thin air in 6 days. i choose to believe the Word of God over 99 Billion learned scientist, scholars, and what have you. Humans pathetic. God awesome.

According to the old Roman Catholic tradition that Genesis 1-11 should be interpreted as an accurate account of historic events, God did “create the Earth out of thin air in 6 days.” However, I refuse to be in bondage to old Roman Catholic traditions over and above the inspired word of God! Moreover, God did not die, retire, or fall asleep nearly 2,000 years ago! Indeed, God is still blessing us with information that helps us to better and better understand his awesome creation of the earth, and the most noble of all of his creatures, man!

 

[Sagart]

And this is a comment from a person who is full of Love One for another?

Matt. 23:13. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
14. [Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hyprcrites! for ye devour widows' houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.]
15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.
16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor.
17. Ye fools and blind: for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that hath sanctified the gold? (ASV)

Love tells the truth!

Sounds to me like you are one of those learned people, who believe things they can see, touch, taste, feel, and hear. And believes in PROOF, But lacks Faith.

My faith is in God and His word, rather than in interpretations of the Bible by men who lack the ability to read it.

 

[Embankment]

Many vary learned Christians throughout history think that the book of Genesis is written in a a poetic manner. At the very least it is incorrect to act as if the official Christian stance is that the earth is 6000 years old and dinosaurs were hanging with Noah on the ark.

 

[Inquistor]

Has anyone considered the massive EVIDENCE that there might have been TWO different floods that covered planet earth? Have any of you ever heard of the Gap Theory, which postulates that there was a huge, unaccounted for gap (in time) between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2? When Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, who was it that tempted Eve to sin? Was that entity "beautiful" and covered with precious stones, as Lucifer was ... or was that entity a serpent crawling on its belly? WHEN was it that Lucifer was seen falling like lightning from heaven to the earth, and what Entity SAW him fall? How FAST did the flood waters vanish (at the command of God's voice)?

Psalm 104:7 But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound of ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... Your shout made the waters retreat; at the sound of your thunderous voice
they hurried off ... Water ran away at the sound of your thunder. ...

How long did it take the water to recede in the case of Noah's flood?

biblehub.com/genesis/8-5.htm▼
King James Bible And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen. Holman Christian ... 6Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made;… New American Standard Bible.

Does anybody notice any DIFFERENCES?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[PlainWord]

The appearance on a Christian website of such ludicrous nonsense as is this should bring Christians to their knees in prayer that such severely ill-informed Christians would get a grip on reality rather than on such shear nonsense! Indeed, such absurd claims as are found in this post make Christians appear to be intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia!

Pangaea began to break apart into several techtonic plates approximately 175,000 million years ago! For professional documentation of this statement, please see:

Rogers, John J. W.; Santosh, M. Continents and Supercontinents. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004.

Here's the utterances of an intellectual dwarf. The slow earth change model defies logic and visible observations. These mental midgets would have us believe that the Colorado River carved out the Great Canyon gradually over the course of tens of millions of years. In reality, it was carved out as the result of a natural "dam" breaking releasing untold billions of barrels of water trapped above from the flood.

Very little that we see is a result of slow motion, but rather very rapid and catastrophic change. This is the nature of our universe. Things happen fast.

 

[Sagart]

Here's the utterances of an intellectual dwarf. The slow earth change model defies logic and visible observations. These mental midgets would have us believe that the Colorado River carved out the Great Canyon gradually over the course of tens of millions of years. In reality, it was carved out as the result of a natural "dam" breaking releasing untold billions of barrels of water trapped above from the flood.

Very little that we see is a result of slow motion, but rather very rapid and catastrophic change. This is the nature of our universe. Things happen fast.

. . . and you “know” these things because you are an “intellectual dwarf?” Do you believe that the earth is flat and covered with a “dome” with windows in it?

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15. and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16. God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
17. God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
18. to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,

The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).

Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).

​

For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse”, please see the article for which I provided a link to in a post above. Here is the link again,

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te...s/text/articles-books/seely-firmament-wtj.htm


The KJV, and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum.Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).


I am not acquainted with even one scholar specializing today on Genesis and publishing today his/her research on Genesis in peer-reviewed biblical journals who does not believe that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are a heavily redacted series of epic tales, myths, legends, or sagas—or that the first eleven chapters of Genesis is allegorical rather than literal. Some of these scholars are liberals who deny the inspiration of Scripture; others are evangelicals who tenaciously hold to the belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and that we need to allow God some latitude in the manner in which He reveals to us the truth. I personally believe that the Bible is inerrant, but I can see for myself that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are written in a genre of literature that is found nowhere else in the Bible—and I do not believe that that is just a coincidence that should be overlooked in their interpretation.

Moreover, the Christian fundamentalists with whom I am familiar pick and choose which parts of Genesis 1-11 are to be understood literally, and which ones are not. For example,

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (NRSV)

This is a strictly literal translation of Gen. 1:6 that is perfectly harmonious with other parts of Genesis, especially chapters 6-8 in which we read of the flood. Notice especially 7:11,

7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (KJV)

7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. (NRSV)

What were the windows of the sky if they were not windows in the dome? This was the literal interpretation of Christian fundamentalists until nearly the middle of the last millennium. Indeed, these Christians dearly held to the ancient Jewish interpretation that the earth was flat and covered with a dome that separated the waters above the dome from the seas and oceans of the earth. This was seen as a biblical truth that Satan and his hosts were seeking to destroy by the liberal teaching that the earth was nearly a perfect sphere rather than a disk covered by a dome. After all, if the earth was spherical, it could not be covered with a dome and the biblical account of the flood could not be true. Today’s Christian fundamentalists argue that the NRSV was translated predominately by liberals—and so it was—but their translation of Genesis 1:6 is a very literal translation that is in perfect harmony with the understanding of the story of the flood by Christian fundamentalists until comparatively recent times.

Therefore, I ask myself, “Is the story of the flood in Gen. 6-8 an accurate account of an historic event, or is it something else? Has God chosen to teach us fundamental truths about Himself and His creation, including man, using a series of epic tales, myths, legends, or sagas? In these latter times, is God making clear details regarding Genesis 1-11 that had not been clear in earlier times? Should not Genesis 1-11—and indeed all of Scripture—be approached in an attitude of prayer and a desire to learn from our heavenly Father through the ministry of the Holy Spirit the truths that He desires for us to know and understand?”


Do you believe that the “windows” were real physical structures that were opened causing rain to fall forty days and forty nights (Gen. 7:11-12? What part of Gen. 6-8 do you believe is an accurate, literal account of historic events?
TE]

 

[star]

[h=1]Is the great biblical flood real or not?[/h]
Yes. One cannot take part of scriptures to believe without taking all. Scriptures says there was a flood.

 

[Sagart]

Is the great biblical flood real or not?


Yes. One cannot take part of scriptures to believe without taking all. Scriptures says there was a flood.

No, you say that there was a flood—but the flood described in Genesis is biblically dependent upon the earth being flat and covered with a dome.

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15. and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16. God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.
17. God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
18. to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

“One cannot take part of scriptures to believe without taking all”—that is, except for the earth being flat and covered with a dome.

 

[Silverwings]

Of course it was real, did you not read the story?

 

[Sagart]

Of course it was real, did you not read the story?

God really did open the windows in the dome over the flat earth just as the story says He did—or do we ignore the parts of the story that we do not like so that it can be true? But wait! The story still cannot be true because it describes a ludicrously impossible scenario!


The Bible is NOT a science book and it does not pretend to be one. It is a well established fact that Genesis 6-8, if interpreted literally, is an historical account of actual events in history in which Noah’s family built an ark that was sufficiently large enough for representatives of 1.5 million or more genetically discrete populations of animals to come aboard and be maintained by Noah and his family for 150 or more days exclusively by natural means. Subsequent to those 150 or more days, the ark came to rest on a mountain and these representatives of 1.5 million or more genetically discrete populations of animals disembarked and found their way down the mountain and to the furthest corners of the earth and managed to survive that trip and their arrival even though every single land habitat had been completely destroyed by the flood.

It does not require a Ph.D. in biology from a prestigious university to see immediately that such an historic event never took place. Indeed, the completion of a seventh grade science class is all that is needed.

A few facts regarding Noah’s Ark that must be considered in evaluating the literalness of the account in Gen. 6–8 are:

• There are today about 2,000,000 genetically distinct populations of animals living on the earth. If we assume a date of about 2,349 B.C. (Bishop Ussher’s date), microevolution reduces the number of “kinds” of animals that must have been aboard the ark (to account for the about 2,000,000 genetically distinct populations of animals living on the earth today) to a few hundred thousand “kinds.”

• The few hundred thousand “kinds” of animals, including the dinosaurs, mammoths, giant ground sloths, etc., which have become extinct must also be considered. Did they all become extinct before the flood? If not, they were, according to the account in Genesis, aboard the ark.

• The ark, as literally described in Genesis, was much too small because the amount of water that it would be capable of displacing would weigh less than the animals, cages, and food on board, thus making it impossible for the ark to float.

• The floor space on the ark was too small to hold any more than a tiny fraction of the cages that would be necessary to keep the animals in place (and from eating each other).

• The amount of food required for the animals would weigh at least nearly as much as the animals, and would require a vast amount of storage space.

• Many of the animals aboard the ark would have required specific FRESH fruits, vegetables, leaves, grass, bark, roots, etc., including fresh fruits that are produced only on MATURE plants. Therefore, these mature plants would necessarily have been kept and maintained aboard the ark, and subsequently planted in the ground after the flood.

• Most of the genetically discrete populations of fish (including many VERY LARGE fish) would have to be taken aboard the ark and kept in tanks of water that met their very specific water chemistry needs in order to survive.

• The weight of the water on the earth would have crushed to death any of the land plants that did not drown in the water.

• After 150 days when the water abated, there would be no vegetation on the earth for the herbivores to eat, and no meat for the carnivores to eat, therefore a vast amount of food would necessarily have been kept aboard the ark to sustain the animals AFTER the flood.

• The Animals could not all be released all at once or in the same place because many of them would eat each other.

• The coming of the animals to Noah from all over the earth would have been a physical impossibility no less impossible than Santa Clause delivering presents to every boy and girl on the night before Christmas. The polar bears and penguins, not to mention all of the unique kinds of animals in Australia, would have posed more than a few special difficulties.

• After the flood, the animals could not be returned to their original habitat because all habitats would have been destroyed by the flood.

• Many of the necessary habitats would take 50 years or more to be reestablished and their reestablishment would have required the effort of many thousands of persons.

• Until all the necessary habitats could be reestablished, the animals requiring these habitats would have to be kept and cared for by Noah and his family.

• There was not enough water to cover the entire earth, and even if there was, where did it go after the flood?

• If the reported sightings of the Ark are factual, the Ark came to rest on a VERY high mountain on VERY rugged terrain from which the large majority of the animals would not have been able to descend.

The narrative of Noah’s Ark cannot be a literal account of an historic event. Indescribably huge and very numerous miracles would have been necessary, and a literal interpretation of Genesis does not allow for these miracles because the whole point of the narrative is that through the natural, physical means of an ark built by Noah and his family, mankind and all the kinds of animals were saved from the floodwaters.

 

[star]

Scripture tells us there was a flood over the whole earth and that it destroyed all in existence except Noah and his family and the animals he brought into the ark. I will go with that one.

 

[star]

When God works in His mysterious way, there is no scientific, logical, mankind way to explain it. God does what He does whether or not a human being can understand, define or even describe it.