How To Be Un-Saved

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
(Boldface on some passages is an evidently uncorrectable formatting error.)



1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 - "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP]“[/SUP]
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. 13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

*
5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

*
6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

*
7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
[h=3]John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.[/h][h=3]Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?[/h][h=3]*
8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselfs away from salvation

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
[/h][h=3] Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.[/h]Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

John 15:1 thru 6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

*
9. Belief/Disbelief is not an act of works

(See nos. 2/3/4 above).

*
10. Salvation is not lost by works.

(See no. 6 above)

*
11. Salvation is lost by disbelief

(See no. 8 above)

 
J

joefizz

Guest
(Boldface on some passages is an evidently uncorrectable formatting error.)



1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 - "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP]“[/SUP]
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. 13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

*
5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

*
6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

*
7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselfs away from salvation

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

John 15:1 thru 6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

*
9. Belief/Disbelief is not an act of works

(See nos. 2/3/4 above).

*
10. Salvation is not lost by works.

(See no. 6 above)

*
11. Salvation is lost by disbelief

(See no. 8 above)

I have the "opinion" that this is a very long post who "agrees" with my "opinion"?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I have the "opinion" that this is a very long post who "agrees" with my "opinion"?

If I ever agreed with your opinion,I certainly agree with this one!! Now someone has to beat him. :p
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
If people get unsaved, then it has to be Jesus' fault!

God's not big enough to keep them saved!

If God can't keep everybody, then He's a liar!

We're eternally saved, no matter what we do!

That means once we do our one-time believe Jesus thing, I can now do whatever I want & still go to heaven!

Now I can do whatever I want, or refuse to do anything God wants me to do!

I can fight on CC & name call & mock all my opponents!

I can rebel from God & still go to heaven!

There is no falling away for christians, even though the Bible says so!

All those warnings in the NT are not for me, cuz my salvation can't be touched, not even by me! I dunno why the apostles wrote them.......

All of those warnings in the epistles are written to gnostics, Judiazers, fake christians & all the other sinners. None of them was written to the church, because they're automatically going to heaven.

Sinners are the ones falling away into apostasy.

All those falling away are fake christians.

There's no such thing as a christian backslider.

All who are showing evidence of faith with works are deluded & legalists & are going to Hell even though everybody who made their one-time decision of faith are saved.

No famous, popular, world-loved preacher is a freemason or going to Hell.

We should all get along & seek peace with those that believe heresy.

We shouldn't expose sin, because that hurts people's feelings & starts arguments with the ones sinning.

It's open season for "legalists". Fight with them & accuse & mock them all you want, because you can't be judged for it.

It's ok to lie on a legalist, misquote them, & falsely accuse them cuz they're going to hell anyway.

It's ok to do whatever necessary to win the argument with a legalist, even destroy their reputation if necessary.

Setting up a legalist to get them banned is alright, just don't openly admit to it.

The sooner we ban the legalists, the better off CC will be.

Those that believe in faithfulness to God to keep from backsliding are legalists & sinners. They are not saved because they mentioned works.

If anyone claiming to be a christian falls away, none of them were never saved to begin with, not even if they manifested God's love.

God predestined your salvation, so you're going to heaven no matter what you do.

Satan was thrown outta heaven for his rebellion, but saved rebels are going to heaven.

I've seen these attitudes in the BDF. They won't openly say them, but they live them.

Who are these people? Too many to tell on.

NOT EVERYBODY.

But a great majority.

Be rest assured yours truly will be the #1 sinner for saying it.

I'm not derailing the Op, I'm responding to it.

Some will say it's just my opinion. It is proper to state your opinion on CC, isn't it?
You nailed it.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,041
8,725
113
Actually.... I think THIS is what he has nailed!


[FONT=&quot]​KJV And why not say rather (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil, that good may come”? Their damnation is just!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ASV
and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
AMP
And why not say, (as some slanderously report and claim that we teach) “Let us do evil so that good may come of it”? Their condemnation [by God] is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
AMPC
And why should we not do evil that good may come?—as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
BRG
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
CSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
CEB
Why not say, “Let’s do evil things so that good things will come out of it”? (Some people who slander us accuse us of saying that, but these people deserve criticism.)
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
CJB
Indeed! Why not say (as some people slander us by claiming we do say), “Let us do evil, so that good may come of it”? Against them the judgment is a just one!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
CEV
You might as well say, “Let’s do something evil, so that something good will come of it!” Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]and not, according as we are injuriously charged, and according as some affirm that we say, Let us practise evil things, that good ones may come? whose judgment is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
DLNT
Indeed, why not say “Let us do evil things that good things may come”, as we are blasphemed, and as some affirm us to say— whose condemnation is just!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
DRA
And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ERV
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
EHV
And why not say (as some slanderously claim we say), “Let us do evil so that good may result.” Their condemnation is deserved.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ESV
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
EXB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people ·find fault with [slander] us and say we teach this, but ·they are wrong and deserve the punishment they will receive [L their condemnation is just].
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
GNV
And (as we are blamed, and as some affirm, that we say) why do we not evil, that good may come thereof? whose damnation is just.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
GW
Or can we say, “Let’s do evil so that good will come from it”? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that’s what they deserve.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
GNT
Why not say, then, “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Some people, indeed, have insulted me by accusing me of saying this very thing! They will be condemned, as they should be.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
HCSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ICB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people find fault with us and say that we teach this. Those who say such things about us are wrong, and they should be punished.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ISV
Or can we say—as some people slander us by claiming that we say—“Let’s do evil that good may result”? They deserve to be condemned!
[/FONT]
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,284
1,418
113
Lets see if this will help.,

I see it saying, HIS SHEEP ARE those who hear his voice, and Those who follow him, and ARE kept by the power of God.

What I see you saying. his sheep ARE THOSE WHO ARe PRESENTLY HEARING, AND THOSE WHO AR PRESENTLY FOLLOWING AND THOSE WHO ARE PRESENTLY BEING KEPT

Now can you tell me the differences between those two saying. They both say different things because the highlight is on different words.
Not sure how you got me saying the second one: I don't think I ever had the word "presently" in there?

But aside from that question: I am OK with agreeing with what you say: "His SHEEP ARE those who hear his voice, and Those who follow him, and ARE kept by the power of God".

But if you think I meant "presently" hearing, etc., I am OK with that too.

However you want to put the emphasis of verse 27, it states that it the sheep will have the promises of the next verses.

Are you seeing our difference of approaches like this?

EG - a true sheep of Jesus will hear and follow - and thus have the promises of the next verses
Chester - sheep that are hearing and following - they will have the promises of the next verses
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Actually.... I think THIS is what he has nailed!


​KJV And why not say rather (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil, that good may come”? Their damnation is just!

ASV
and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

AMP
And why not say, (as some slanderously report and claim that we teach) “Let us do evil so that good may come of it”? Their condemnation [by God] is just.

AMPC
And why should we not do evil that good may come?—as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.

BRG
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

CSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!

CEB
Why not say, “Let’s do evil things so that good things will come out of it”? (Some people who slander us accuse us of saying that, but these people deserve criticism.)

CJB
Indeed! Why not say (as some people slander us by claiming we do say), “Let us do evil, so that good may come of it”? Against them the judgment is a just one!

CEV
You might as well say, “Let’s do something evil, so that something good will come of it!” Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.

and not, according as we are injuriously charged, and according as some affirm that we say, Let us practise evil things, that good ones may come? whose judgment is just.

DLNT
Indeed, why not say “Let us do evil things that good things may come”, as we are blasphemed, and as some affirm us to say— whose condemnation is just!

DRA
And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just.

ERV
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.

EHV
And why not say (as some slanderously claim we say), “Let us do evil so that good may result.” Their condemnation is deserved.

ESV
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

EXB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people ·find fault with [slander] us and say we teach this, but ·they are wrong and deserve the punishment they will receive [L their condemnation is just].

GNV
And (as we are blamed, and as some affirm, that we say) why do we not evil, that good may come thereof? whose damnation is just.

GW
Or can we say, “Let’s do evil so that good will come from it”? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that’s what they deserve.

GNT
Why not say, then, “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Some people, indeed, have insulted me by accusing me of saying this very thing! They will be condemned, as they should be.

HCSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!

ICB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people find fault with us and say that we teach this. Those who say such things about us are wrong, and they should be punished.

ISV
Or can we say—as some people slander us by claiming that we say—“Let’s do evil that good may result”? They deserve to be condemned!
Paul did not teach hypergrace/freegrace theology. Many of you people do.

You people need to stick to what the Bible says. Teach what the Bible actually says, then you will not be guilty of making grace a license to sin.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Not sure how you got me saying the second one: I don't think I ever had the word "presently" in there?
That's from reading my posts, though he makes sure to let me know he has me on ignore.

He goofs up occasionally and shows that he is in fact reading my posts.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,117
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Paul did not teach hypergrace/freegrace theology. Many of you people do.

You people need to stick to what the Bible says. Teach what the Bible actually says, then you will not be guilty of making grace a license to sin.
Still chasing after the boogie man? :rolleyes:

 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,648
13,057
113
Paul did not teach hypergrace/freegrace theology. Many of you people do.

The Hyper Grace proponents are a minority.
You people need to stick to what the Bible says. Teach what the Bible actually says, then you will not be guilty of making grace a license to sin.
I do not believe you will find any Christian groups (or even cults) actually promoting this idea of grace being a license to sin. And the Bible is crystal clear that that is not what grace permits (Titus 2:11-14).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not sure how you got me saying the second one: I don't think I ever had the word "presently" in there?
When verse 27 is fulfilled and is happening, then what verses 28 and 29 say is always true of these sheep. If verse 27 is not happening - that is, a person is not hearing and is not following, then the promises of verses 28 and verse 29 do not apply.

It is that simple; exactly as the text says it: How in the world does anyone get "once saved always saved" out of John 10:27-29???????????????


forgive me, But you made it clear. That if his sheep are listening, and they are following (if these are true) then the rest is true, How is this different than what I said ?


But aside from that question: I am OK with agreeing with what you say: "His SHEEP ARE those who hear his voice, and Those who follow him, and ARE kept by the power of God".

But if you think I meant "presently" hearing, etc., I am OK with that too.

However you want to put the emphasis of verse 27, it states that it the sheep will have the promises of the next verses.

Are you seeing our difference of approaches like this?
I see a huge difference, as I stated above, you really think there is no difference? And remember, You say in john 3: 16 that those who have eternal life are those presently believing, Same difference. So I di dnot just make that up.

EG - a true sheep of Jesus will hear and follow - and thus have the promises of the next verses
Chester - sheep that are hearing and following - they will have the promises of the next verses
Do you not see the difference?

The sheep of me the voice of me are hearing, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.
(My sheep are hearing my voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.)
I see it like this, At the present time (ie, anyone reading this saying, at that time, no matter when that time is) my sheep are hearing me and they are following me, ie, my sheep (this is who they are) are ALWAYS hearing me, and they are ALWAYS following me.


You see a present tense as if they are doing it then, as long as they are, they are receiving what was promised.

I see it as anyone who reads those words, at any time. They (my sheep) are listening to me, and they follow me. It was not “if” statement, it was a statement of fact.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
[/B]The Hyper Grace proponents are a minority.

I do not believe you will find any Christian groups (or even cults) actually promoting this idea of grace being a license to sin. And the Bible is crystal clear that that is not what grace permits (Titus 2:11-14).
I disagree in regarding the "cult" part cults like snake churches use sin openly and justify handling deadly creatures with some scriptures taken out of context.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sorry don't get what your saying.

Would you mind clarifying for me.
He yells at people who belittle or attack others. Yet he does the same. I randomly opened up one of his posts to see if he changed, and responded. I looked for his response. And got non. He is not here to debate., but to attack and belittle people who do nto agre with him, then get mad at them when people return the same to him.

I think that is about all you need to know my friend.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
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I just wanted to let ya'll know that pretty soon I'm gonna share my testimony, please don't think less of me, I just feel I need to share it, maybe it will help someone.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
I just wanted to let ya'll know that pretty soon I'm gonna share my testimony, please don't think less of me, I just feel I need to share it, maybe it will help someone.
I know I won't"nothing shocks me" anymore,go ahead and share,I have too before here.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,041
8,725
113
[/B]The Hyper Grace proponents are a minority.

I do not believe you will find any Christian groups (or even cults) actually promoting this idea of grace being a license to sin. And the Bible is crystal clear that that is not what grace permits (Titus 2:11-14).

I think you'll come to understand that most of them say that those of us that believe we have eternal security, because we are born again Children of God, which they derogatorily refer to as OSAS, ​ARE HYPERGRACERS!
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
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North Carolina
I just wanted to let ya'll know that pretty soon I'm gonna share my testimony, please don't think less of me, I just feel I need to share it, maybe it will help someone.

Anyone who would think "less" of you for sharing your testimony is probably the one who needs to hear it the most. Just saying.