How To Be Un-Saved
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Amen! In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Is unsaved really just mean unbelieving? Is unbelief, not being saved?
These are pretty much the same question.
My answer is this: Jesus died on the cross and rose again on the third day to pay the price for our sins with His blood. If you refuse to believe He did this for you personally, you cannot be saved.
Is having belief, then maybe not talking to God, or the Lord Jesus Christ for a little while, or reading your bible does God reject your belief?
If you once believed and were saved, nothing after that can alter your salvation - even if later in life you stopped believing. Like it or not - you're going to heaven.
God has given us salvation as a free gift - no strings attached. Which is why so many people trip themselves up over it. To them, it's way too simple, and they're wary of anything offered totally free. So, they themselves start attaching requirement after requirement, works after work, to make themselves "feel" justified and deserving of what Jesus did.
Don't give in to that temptation.
This is the very first time I have to disagree with you, EG. True, there are some who have walked away that never really were saved, but there are Christians that can, because of some terrible tragedy or trauma in their life, become so angry at God, or so despondent, they stop believing in Him.
If salvation is truly a gift without a single string, that would have to include the possibility of one day, not believing. If salvation is truly not based on us at all, but on Christ alone, then the possibility exists that one can turn their back on God.
God, of course, will chasten His children to correct them, even to the point of taking home the most rebellious before their time, but the salvation aspect is rooted entirely in Jesus and cannot be lost for any reason.
If salvation is truly a gift without a single string, that would have to include the possibility of one day, not believing. If salvation is truly not based on us at all, but on Christ alone, then the possibility exists that one can turn their back on God.
God, of course, will chasten His children to correct them, even to the point of taking home the most rebellious before their time, but the salvation aspect is rooted entirely in Jesus and cannot be lost for any reason.
It’s one thing to merely believe “mental assent” in the existence and historical facts about Christ and it’s another thing to believe/trust in His finish work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Acts 10:43; 11:17: 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28 etc..).
I believed in the existence and historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in him as the means of my salvation. Big difference.
I believed in the existence and historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in him as the means of my salvation. Big difference.
Nowhere does it say "faithful enough".
You made that up.
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it has been written: "And the righteous will live by faith."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
And, "But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back."
New Living Translation
And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away."
English Standard Version
but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
Berean Study Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him."
Berean Literal Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he might shrink back, My soul does not take pleasure in him."
New American Standard Bible
BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
King James Bible
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
You gonna tell me it's not saying what it's saying?
More context:
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
New Living Translation
But Jesus told him, "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God."
English Standard Version
Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and then looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."
Berean Literal Bible
And Jesus said to him, "No one having laid the hand upon the plow, and looking on the things behind, is fit for the kingdom of God."
New American Standard Bible
But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
Why? Because looking back is not of faith.
All these scriptures qualify living one's whole life by faith, & not a one time decision.
One-time decisions is unfaithfulness.
You made that up.
Romans 1:17
Verse (Click for Chapter)
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it has been written: "And the righteous will live by faith."
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38
New International Version
And, "But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back."
New Living Translation
And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away."
English Standard Version
but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
Berean Study Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him."
Berean Literal Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he might shrink back, My soul does not take pleasure in him."
New American Standard Bible
BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
King James Bible
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
You gonna tell me it's not saying what it's saying?
More context:
Luke 9:62
New International Version
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
New Living Translation
But Jesus told him, "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God."
English Standard Version
Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and then looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."
Berean Literal Bible
And Jesus said to him, "No one having laid the hand upon the plow, and looking on the things behind, is fit for the kingdom of God."
New American Standard Bible
But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
Why? Because looking back is not of faith.
All these scriptures qualify living one's whole life by faith, & not a one time decision.
One-time decisions is unfaithfulness.
E
So they have turned and become anti Christ? Who deny Jesus and the Father?
I can just go by what John says, He says they were never saved, I must follow his words.
I also believe God is omniscient, and he knew every thing we would do before we were even born, and if some thing can happen that can get a person to deny their is a hell, deny there is salvation in the blood. Deny they are in need I Of salvation, and reject the gospel. Saying they do not need it anymore. I must question if they ever had faith to begin with.
Now if your talking about a prodigal son, who left the church, who will maybe not even speak to the people in the church anymore, who is in severe depression and lost faith in God (het still understand the gospel. And does not deny the gospel. Just left out of anger) I believe that person is still saved. And I have witnessed many of these people come back, some aftert being gone for decades. When God is finally able to soften their heart.
I should have read this first..lol. Yes I agree. God will chasten them (experienced that myself) And I also agree,. There is a sin unto death, where God takes them home. But loss of salvation. No sir.. I will leave the rest of my post up for people to see my view.
I can just go by what John says, He says they were never saved, I must follow his words.
I also believe God is omniscient, and he knew every thing we would do before we were even born, and if some thing can happen that can get a person to deny their is a hell, deny there is salvation in the blood. Deny they are in need I Of salvation, and reject the gospel. Saying they do not need it anymore. I must question if they ever had faith to begin with.
Now if your talking about a prodigal son, who left the church, who will maybe not even speak to the people in the church anymore, who is in severe depression and lost faith in God (het still understand the gospel. And does not deny the gospel. Just left out of anger) I believe that person is still saved. And I have witnessed many of these people come back, some aftert being gone for decades. When God is finally able to soften their heart.
I should have read this first..lol. Yes I agree. God will chasten them (experienced that myself) And I also agree,. There is a sin unto death, where God takes them home. But loss of salvation. No sir.. I will leave the rest of my post up for people to see my view.
E
if a christian converts to Islam, they never had faith in God, or experienced his love, They were just actors playing the church game.
Sorry, But to say you had saving faith, experienced Gods love, was adopted as his child. Was blessed by God. And even experienced all he has to offer. To go to a rules based, war based, performance based religion. Not buying it. That person tried Christianity out and did not like it, because he4 never experienced it, it was a game to him. And for you to think they were really saved. Well it says a lot.
Yes he gave you free will. And he knew by your free will you would turn on him and revert back to what you loved best. So by your free will, he would never give you the gift of eternal life. Because he knew your heart.
You have to remember ear, God chose us before the foundation of the world. Because he KNEW our hearts and knew who would recieve him and who would not. If salvation can be given then returne4d or lost. Then it could NEVER be predestined.
So God should have just no created any people at all. And you and I would never be here, or our kids or anyone else for that matter,. Because people would not recieve him? Even though he died for all. He offered the same gift to all. And he loved all?
Imagine if he just allowed those to be born he. Knew would recieve him, and let everyone else die at childbirth or die in the womb, would that be a fair God?
You have a lot of studying to do my friend, You do not understand the spiritual war at all. Or the love of God. Or why he did things the way he did.
Sorry, But to say you had saving faith, experienced Gods love, was adopted as his child. Was blessed by God. And even experienced all he has to offer. To go to a rules based, war based, performance based religion. Not buying it. That person tried Christianity out and did not like it, because he4 never experienced it, it was a game to him. And for you to think they were really saved. Well it says a lot.
Yes he gave you free will. And he knew by your free will you would turn on him and revert back to what you loved best. So by your free will, he would never give you the gift of eternal life. Because he knew your heart.
You have to remember ear, God chose us before the foundation of the world. Because he KNEW our hearts and knew who would recieve him and who would not. If salvation can be given then returne4d or lost. Then it could NEVER be predestined.
So God should have just no created any people at all. And you and I would never be here, or our kids or anyone else for that matter,. Because people would not recieve him? Even though he died for all. He offered the same gift to all. And he loved all?
Imagine if he just allowed those to be born he. Knew would recieve him, and let everyone else die at childbirth or die in the womb, would that be a fair God?
You have a lot of studying to do my friend, You do not understand the spiritual war at all. Or the love of God. Or why he did things the way he did.
You're 1st example hinges on what your definition of a Christian is.
As for the rest, what say did you have in your natural, fleshly birth?
This is what Jesus says about our Spiritual Birth:
[h=1]John 1:13 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.[/FONT]
As for the rest, what say did you have in your natural, fleshly birth?
This is what Jesus says about our Spiritual Birth:
[h=1]John 1:13 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.[/FONT]
R
...Or they were not strong believers and had shallow roots and fell away.
“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."-Luke 8:13
“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away."-Matthew 13:20-21
Only the 4th type of soil has the word deeply rooted in it and endures to the end in a mature fruitfulness.
“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”-Luke 8:15
Strive to become a 4th type of soil believer with an honest and good heart where you have a deep 'knowing', mature relationship with God from which you will not fall away and in which you endure to the very end in salvation. Only 4th type of soil believers have any boast of not falling away. They are the ones who know Christ and who can not be swayed. Those who never know him this way are the ones who can fall away.
“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."-Luke 8:13
“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away."-Matthew 13:20-21
Only the 4th type of soil has the word deeply rooted in it and endures to the end in a mature fruitfulness.
“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”-Luke 8:15
Strive to become a 4th type of soil believer with an honest and good heart where you have a deep 'knowing', mature relationship with God from which you will not fall away and in which you endure to the very end in salvation. Only 4th type of soil believers have any boast of not falling away. They are the ones who know Christ and who can not be swayed. Those who never know him this way are the ones who can fall away.
Hahahaha. Insert my assumptions? It seems you are the one trying to do that.
The verses very simply state what they state. You are the one that wants to try and place some sort of doubt upon them because of your own philosophy and your own hate.
1. The sheep are the ones that hear the Lords Voice.
2. The message is that once someone is saved they are Eternally Saved.
3. A person follows the Lord Jesus when they hear His Voice. Its just a fact.
4. It is Salvation. It happens when a person comes to Christ and is Saved.
5. Yes. They are men. No man is able to pluck them out of the Lords Hand.
6. I could continue to describe rainbows to blind men but is it really going to do any good???
Why can't you read the verses for what they actually say instead of trying to put your assumptions into them?
There is a such thing as the Lords Sheep. Fact.
Those sheep receive ETERNAL LIFE. Fact.
NO man can take them away from the Lord. Fact.
The Father is Greater than all and no one can take them from Him. Fact.
SO at the very least, if you are to be honest, you would say that the bible in fact states and upholds OSAS.
The question in your mind is WHO has received this. That's a fine question. But OSAS is what the Lord Jesus Christ has stated in His Word. You are trying to say that He Lies by your silly philosophy and He does not lie.
The verses very simply state what they state. You are the one that wants to try and place some sort of doubt upon them because of your own philosophy and your own hate.
1. The sheep are the ones that hear the Lords Voice.
2. The message is that once someone is saved they are Eternally Saved.
3. A person follows the Lord Jesus when they hear His Voice. Its just a fact.
4. It is Salvation. It happens when a person comes to Christ and is Saved.
5. Yes. They are men. No man is able to pluck them out of the Lords Hand.
6. I could continue to describe rainbows to blind men but is it really going to do any good???
Why can't you read the verses for what they actually say instead of trying to put your assumptions into them?
There is a such thing as the Lords Sheep. Fact.
Those sheep receive ETERNAL LIFE. Fact.
NO man can take them away from the Lord. Fact.
The Father is Greater than all and no one can take them from Him. Fact.
SO at the very least, if you are to be honest, you would say that the bible in fact states and upholds OSAS.
The question in your mind is WHO has received this. That's a fine question. But OSAS is what the Lord Jesus Christ has stated in His Word. You are trying to say that He Lies by your silly philosophy and He does not lie.
R
Jesus said people stop believing because of persecution, affliction, and temptation-Luke 8:13, Matthew 13:21.
No more foolish than God choosing Judas to minister the gospel to the people during Jesus' earthly ministry even though God knew all along that Judas was a fake. Yet God gave him that position anyway. And He did it for a reason. Likewise, you should not try to apply your limited earthly logic to why God saves people who he knows will fall away. He has his reasons.
No more foolish than God choosing Judas to minister the gospel to the people during Jesus' earthly ministry even though God knew all along that Judas was a fake. Yet God gave him that position anyway. And He did it for a reason. Likewise, you should not try to apply your limited earthly logic to why God saves people who he knows will fall away. He has his reasons.
Originally Posted by DJ2
Okay Grandpa lets see how simple this truly is.
1. Who are the sheep? It seems that is a big part of this debate.
2 What is the voice/message? It seems what message is being heard is rather important.
3 What does it mean to "follow"? What & how we follow is quite a hot topic here.
4. What is the meaning of "I give unto them eternal life"? When does this happen?
5. Does the "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" include the ability for the sheep to resist the lordship of the shepherd?
6. Does the phrase "My Father, which gave them to me" imply only those who are faithful to the end or to those who were faithful at least once during their life?
Your post is rather typical of many on this thread, pick a verse and insert your assumptions. Never willing to even consider another possibility.
If you begin with the first question that DJ2 asks:
Okay Grandpa lets see how simple this truly is.
1. Who are the sheep? It seems that is a big part of this debate.
2 What is the voice/message? It seems what message is being heard is rather important.
3 What does it mean to "follow"? What & how we follow is quite a hot topic here.
4. What is the meaning of "I give unto them eternal life"? When does this happen?
5. Does the "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" include the ability for the sheep to resist the lordship of the shepherd?
6. Does the phrase "My Father, which gave them to me" imply only those who are faithful to the end or to those who were faithful at least once during their life?
Your post is rather typical of many on this thread, pick a verse and insert your assumptions. Never willing to even consider another possibility.
Who are the sheep?
Verse 27 gives the simple answer from the text (John 10)
ta probata ta ema tes phones mou akouousin, kago ginosko auta, kai akolouthousin moi
The sheep of me the voice of me are hearing, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.
(My sheep are hearing my voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.)
When verse 27 is fulfilled and is happening, then what verses 28 and 29 say is always true of these sheep. If verse 27 is not happening - that is, a person is not hearing and is not following, then the promises of verses 28 and verse 29 do not apply.
It is that simple; exactly as the text says it: How in the world does anyone get "once saved always saved" out of John 10:27-29???????????????
R
The Bible speaks more in terms of 'strong vs. weak faith', not 'real faith vs. fake faith'.
It is those who have strong faith, whose roots go down deep, that have any claim to never being able to fall away. That's why we are to grow strong in our faith so we will endure to the very end and be saved, not be weak in faith and open to falling away and being lost.
It is those who have strong faith, whose roots go down deep, that have any claim to never being able to fall away. That's why we are to grow strong in our faith so we will endure to the very end and be saved, not be weak in faith and open to falling away and being lost.
Originally Posted by DJ2
Okay Grandpa lets see how simple this truly is.
1. Who are the sheep? It seems that is a big part of this debate.
2 What is the voice/message? It seems what message is being heard is rather important.
3 What does it mean to "follow"? What & how we follow is quite a hot topic here.
4. What is the meaning of "I give unto them eternal life"? When does this happen?
5. Does the "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" include the ability for the sheep to resist the lordship of the shepherd?
6. Does the phrase "My Father, which gave them to me" imply only those who are faithful to the end or to those who were faithful at least once during their life?
Your post is rather typical of many on this thread, pick a verse and insert your assumptions. Never willing to even consider another possibility.
Okay Grandpa lets see how simple this truly is.
1. Who are the sheep? It seems that is a big part of this debate.
2 What is the voice/message? It seems what message is being heard is rather important.
3 What does it mean to "follow"? What & how we follow is quite a hot topic here.
4. What is the meaning of "I give unto them eternal life"? When does this happen?
5. Does the "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" include the ability for the sheep to resist the lordship of the shepherd?
6. Does the phrase "My Father, which gave them to me" imply only those who are faithful to the end or to those who were faithful at least once during their life?
Your post is rather typical of many on this thread, pick a verse and insert your assumptions. Never willing to even consider another possibility.
If you begin with the first question that DJ2 asks:
Who are the sheep?
Verse 27 gives the simple answer from the text (John 10)
ta probata ta ema tes phones mou akouousin, kago ginosko auta, kai akolouthousin moi
The sheep of me the voice of me are hearing, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.
(My sheep are hearing my voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following me.)
When verse 27 is fulfilled and is happening, then what verses 28 and 29 say is always true of these sheep. If verse 27 is not happening - that is, a person is not hearing and is not following, then the promises of verses 28 and verse 29 do not apply.
It is that simple; exactly as the text says it: How in the world does anyone get "once saved always saved" out of John 10:27-29???????????????