How To Be Un-Saved

[mailmandan]

If the ones who leave were never saved to begin with, why does John warn the remaining believers, who he says are saved and know the truth, to let the truth abide in them so that they will abide in the Son and the Father?

"As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide (continue) in the Son and in the Father."-1 John 2:24

1 John 2:24 -Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

See, the word has to continue to abide in you for you to continue to be saved. Paul echos this same truth in this verse:

If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. Nothing there about some will continue to abide and some will not.

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain (if Christ has not really risen from the dead your faith is in vain)."-1 Corinthians 15:2

1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. *To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe in the first place).

The 2nd kind of soil believer does not retain the word. They believe, but the word is not deeply rooted in them. When trouble or temptation comes they fall away and do not continue in the Son and the Father. They will not be saved when Jesus comes back.

Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief. The demons "believe" (James 2:19) but they are not saved. In John 8:30, these Jews who were said to have "believed in Him" turned out to be slaves to sin (verse 34), indifferent to the words of Jesus (verse 37), children of the devil (verse 44), liars (verse 55), and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (verse 59). The "belief" in John 2:23-25 is superficial in nature. So as we can see, NOT ALL belief is the same.

 

[Ralph-]

1 John 2:24 -Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. Nothing there about some will continue to abide and some will not.

The POTENTIAL for them not to abide is there in the 2nd to the last verse of the passage:

"28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming."-1 John 2:28

Why say such a thing if it's a given that they can't not abide (continue) in him?

1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. *To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe in the first place).

Paul plainly said in 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 that they believe and are saved, but that this genuine believing is in vain if Christ really did not rise from the dead.


"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved (present tense), if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain."-1 Corinthians 15:1-2


So there is no argument here that somehow they are not really saved. None whatsoever.

Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief. The demons "believe" (James 2:19) but they are not saved. In John 8:30, these Jews who were said to have "believed in Him" turned out to be slaves to sin (verse 34), indifferent to the words of Jesus (verse 37), children of the devil (verse 44), liars (verse 55), and guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (verse 59). The "belief" in John 2:23-25 is superficial in nature. So as we can see, NOT ALL belief is the same.

To compare the believing of the 2nd soil to that of demons is not even reasonable. No demon believes falsely for a while with joy. No demon has the word growing in his heart if even only shallowly.

I suppose you think the little ones who believe in Jesus in Matthew 18:6-9 are fake, demonic believers too? You know the little ones who believe in Jesus who if caused to stumble and go to the eternal fire will condemn the person who caused them to stumble to a fate worse than drowning in the sea.

 

[Grandpa]

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same

bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Is the fruit that the Lord Jesus grows in us a gift of God?

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


You can just choose to stop believing? Then I suppose you could choose to start back up again. Salvation becomes like your favorite shirt. You decide whether it looks good on you and how it fits. If you are not in the mood you just throw it in the corner. Once the mood comes back for you, you can put it back on and brush it off. Because God wouldn't just force you to wear a certain shirt. He needs you to tell Him it is ok first... Right?

No. Salvation is not like that. Salvation is something you desperately need and are not even aware of at first. But once you are aware you aren't going to forget. You aren't going to forget that it is Christ who saved you and not you who supervised or managed that Salvation.

You aren't going to forget that you were a sheep lost in the wilderness and the Good Shepherd came after you and brought you back into the flock. How many sheep decide to stop believing in the Shepherd and decide to go wander in the wilderness again instead?

It gets more and more outlandish the more I think about it.​

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[Magenta]

If claiming the promise of God through FAITH based on his work, and his will.. not mine, is being haughty, then what do you call those who claim they EARN the right by all their hard work?

His charge against you for claiming the promises of God was nothing short of bizarre.

 

[Chester]

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same

bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Is the fruit that the Lord Jesus grows in us a gift of God?

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 11:29

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


You can just choose to stop believing? Then I suppose you could choose to start back up again. Salvation becomes like your favorite shirt. You decide whether it looks good on you and how it fits. If you are not in the mood you just throw it in the corner. Once the mood comes back for you, you can put it back on and brush it off. Because God wouldn't just force you to wear a certain shirt. He needs you to tell Him it is ok first... Right?

No. Salvation is not like that. Salvation is something you desperately need and are not even aware of at first. But once you are aware you aren't going to forget. You aren't going to forget that it is Christ who saved you and not you who supervised or managed that Salvation.

You aren't going to forget that you were a sheep lost in the wilderness and the Good Shepherd came after you and brought you back into the flock. How many sheep decide to stop believing in the Shepherd and decide to go wander in the wilderness again instead?

It gets more and more outlandish the more I think about it.​

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For myself, I know very well that I am a moral man created in the image of God, and I know very well that I have the moral capability to be and become as evil as a Hitlar. To say otherwise would be deceiving myself.

So would I just "choose to stop believing"? Of course not, and I hope not, and I have no plans to: yet in me lies that moral capability.

 

[Magenta]

For myself, I know very well that I am a moral man created in the image of God, and I know very well that I have the moral capability to be and become as evil as a Hitlar. To say otherwise would be deceiving myself.

So would I just "choose to stop believing"? Of course not, and I hope not, and I have no plans to: yet in me lies that moral capability.

That is why we place our faith and hope and trust in Christ, for He will not fail as we could.

 

[DJ2]

His charge against you for claiming the promises of God was nothing short of bizarre.

Claims without proof are presumptuous. In other words, claiming a position or status without the consent of the benefactor is meaningless. To use personal claims of faith as proof of standing with God is arrogance. No one knows their own heart, to state otherwise is foolishness.

 

[Ralph-]

You can just choose to stop believing? Then I suppose you could choose to start back up again.
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No, that is not allowed.
Once you lose your salvation, that's it. It's over.​

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[Ralph-]

I hope noone will try to "take advantage" by trying to pridefully say that by his no response during this time that he is ignoring posts

Actually, the pride is in being afraid that someone may you think you can't answer them so you make it a point to say you're busy or can't answer just now. If you weren't trying to protect your pride why would you care?

 

[Ralph-]

That is why we place our faith and hope and trust in Christ, for He will not fail as we could.

He will help you keep believing, but he will not do it for you.

 

[PennEd]

For myself, I know very well that I am a moral man created in the image of God, and I know very well that I have the moral capability to be and become as evil as a Hitlar. To say otherwise would be deceiving myself.

So would I just "choose to stop believing"? Of course not, and I hope not, and I have no plans to: yet in me lies that moral capability.

If you, after being born again, have the capacity to become a Hitler, and be the orchestrator of the murder of millions of people, or, just devise a plan to murder just ONE person, possibly for financial gain, WHY DON'T YOU? Outside of the possibilty of getting caught and going to jail of course.

Why DON'T you stop believing Chester? You could enjoy the pleasures of sin right now. What is stopping you?

I would submit that you have the Holy Spirit in you, and this is why you name Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

[Ralph-]

It gets more and more outlandish the more I think about it.​

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Stop over thinking it and just go with what the Bible says.

As long as you continue to believe you will continue to be saved.

This is not brain surgery, people. Leave the goofy, over-thought doctrines of spiritless men out of it.

 

[Ralph-]

If you, after being born again, have the capacity to become a Hitler, and be the orchestrator of the murder of millions of people, or, just devise a plan to murder just ONE person, possibly for financial gain, WHY DON'T YOU? Outside of the possibilty of getting caught and going to jail of course.

Why DON'T you stop believing Chester? You could enjoy the pleasures of sin right now. What is stopping you?

I would submit that you have the Holy Spirit in you, and this is why you name Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I continue to believe because I love righteousness more than unrighteousness, and I read the last chapter of the story. Unrighteous people don't go to be with Jesus when they die.

 

[Chester]

No, that is not allowed.
Once you lose your salvation, that's it. It's over.

Verse for that idea please?

 

[Chester]

If you, after being born again, have the capacity to become a Hitler, and be the orchestrator of the murder of millions of people, or, just devise a plan to murder just ONE person, possibly for financial gain, WHY DON'T YOU? Outside of the possibilty of getting caught and going to jail of course.

Why DON'T you stop believing Chester? You could enjoy the pleasures of sin right now. What is stopping you?

I would submit that you have the Holy Spirit in you, and this is why you name Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Amen, brother! I have the Holy Spirit in me and because of Him I have no intention or desire to do such a thing. But that does not change the fact that I am a completely free moral man created in God's image.

 

[PennEd]

I continue to believe because I love righteousness more than unrighteousness, and I read the last chapter of the story. Unrighteous people don't go to be with Jesus when they die.

That's a lotta I's packed into one sentence!

 

[Magenta]

Claims without proof are presumptuous. In other words, claiming a position or status without the consent of the benefactor is meaningless. To use personal claims of faith as proof of standing with God is arrogance. No one knows their own heart, to state otherwise is foolishness.

So your claims are worthless. Thank you for letting us know

For myself, I will take hold of God's promises. I have His express permission to do so.
If you want to throw them away, or pretend they do not exist, that is your choice.

2 Peter 1:4 And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.

Matthew 11:28-29 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Isaiah 40:29-31 He gives power to the weak
and strength to the powerless.
Even youths will become weak and tired,
and young men will fall in exhaustion.
But those who trust in the Lord will find new strength.
They will soar high on wings like eagles.
They will run and not grow weary.
They will walk and not faint.

Philippians 4: this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:37-39 No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

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And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Proverbs 1:33 But all who listen to me will live in peace,
untroubled by fear of harm.

John 14:27 “I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid.

Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[DJ2]

So your claims are worthless. Thank you for letting us know

For myself, I will take hold of God's promises. I have His express permission to do so.
If you want to throw them away, or pretend they do not exist, that is your choice.

2 Peter 1:4 And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.

Matthew 11:28-29 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Isaiah 40:29-31 He gives power to the weak
and strength to the powerless.
Even youths will become weak and tired,
and young men will fall in exhaustion.
But those who trust in the Lord will find new strength.
They will soar high on wings like eagles.
They will run and not grow weary.
They will walk and not faint.

Philippians 4: this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:37-39 No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

​

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Proverbs 1:33 But all who listen to me will live in peace,
untroubled by fear of harm.

John 14:27 “I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid.

Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

All claims of knowing our own heart is meaningless. Fight the scripture if you wish but it is rather clear. Your willingness to argue the point is proof of a inability to see past your own heart.

I have His express permission to do so.

Please cite this "express permission".

On your verses did you not notice the complete lack of proper nouns in regards to the claimants? It is this lack of proper nouns that make your "express permission" so bizarre.

 

[star]

Once one loses their salvation it's all over? Really?

Just someone name me one work, just one work which will save a person. Or, name me a work which will un-save a person.


Praise God I believe and testify to the saving grace and the power of the sealing of the Holy Spirit for my soul from the day of my salvation until the day of my bodily death. What a wonderful gift from a merciful and gracious God and I thank Him every day.

Praise His Holy name

 

[BillG]

Verse for that idea please?

Have a guess