And what is with an not married Woman in the time of Paul? If I am not wrong in Pauls Culture a Woman belong to her father Household Till she marries. This Tradition we still find in some cultures today. Of course not in our modern western Culture. So a woman was always under an man authority ( father ore husband ore an other male of the family)
Interesting comment, in view of the fact that this is the definition of a woman's place in Islam, today. Women in certain countries, like Saudi Arabia, (home of the Wahabis and terrorists) a woman cannot go out without a male companion, even her teenage son, will do. This is because, the woman might fall into sexual sin, and she is not able to think or do things on her own.
This is a substandard view of women, regardless of which culture espouses it. And certainly, the Bible has women teachers, like Prisca (Priscilla) who was the lead teacher, because her name is mentioned first by Paul, all but one time; apostles like Phoebe and Junia, and all the women who worked for the cause of the gospel.
It is humiliating to think that Christian men think they are "defending God and the Bible" by maintaining the cultural mores of destructive and despotic countries like ancient Rome, and 1st century Greeks. To say nothing of Islam.
What makes Christianity different? Well, the fact that God clearly says in his Word that male and women are one and equal in Christ.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
Yet, certain men, like one on this thread, seems to want to make women unable to be saved, by saying they are not included in Jesus' ransom for our sins. This is from the NET Bible, which is solidly complementarian. That means, they believe in roles, women should not be pastors. Here is how they translate the verse which Pontiac used to keep women literally out of the kingdom of God. He did that, with the usual trick of ignoring context. He also has no clue about the words in Greek, which the NET Bible translators, certainly did!
" For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God’s purpose at his appointed time." 1 Tim. 2:5-6[FONT="]
[/FONT]
I won't even go AGAIN to
[FONT="]αὐθεντεῖν [/FONT]"
authentein" which is a disputed word, and even my Greek professor in his Word Commentary, who is complimentarian said the entire passage of 1 Tim. 2:9-15 hinges on this word. Now, he says he wants to believe traditionally, and I have no issue with him or you.
After all, my professor not only let me be in his 2nd year Greek class, he allowed me to talk, and he was careful not to offend me. I learned so much from him, and I also learned, that he was humble, in being able to admit with further research on the word Authentein, from contemporaneous sources, he may be proved wrong. As, perhaps I will be proved wrong.
All, I know, is that when a person comes on here telling me I can't be saved, because "women" are not mentioned in 1 Tim. 2:5, I have to tell the world that is wrong. I don't think he ever figured out the theological issues with not including women as needing Jesus as a ransom, as well as men.
As a woman with advanced conservative theological training, I speak daily with men who truly believe that a woman should not preach. And yet, they are willing to listen to my exegesis, sometimes accepting it, sometimes not. God has called me to my studies, and to teach and preach.
I am a very traditional woman, generally. I cook, and do the woman's work. My husband fixes cars, does renovations, and putters in his man cave, also known as the garage overflowing with tools! He has come a long way in understanding why God has called me to this ministry. Quite simply, the model of a barefoot, pregnant wife is misogynist, and it is detrimental to the church. For one thing, I went to school while pregnant with my second and third children. For my last child, I was working as a teacher, to bring in money for our growing family. And doing all the work around the house.
So, Wolfwint, I do not think this kind of statement contributes much to the discussion. What is the good of pointing out that societies in the past were suppressive of women's gifts and callings, if you still are willing to do that today? This is not about cultural changes, but in fact, what does the Bible say? And bad translations have literally kept women horribly subservient and abused for millennia.
As for different duties or roles? Think carefully about where that started. It was in Genesis 3, AFTER the Fall. There was no such nonsense in the Garden of Eden. Yet, some men would keep women bound to that curse from the Fall, instead of welcoming them as full members of the church, able to teach and preach and spread the gospel.
Because, it makes utterly no sense to me, that women, who are in the majority in most Protestant Churches, are excluded from major roles, on the basis of sin in the Garden. Why would God exclude over 51% of his church members from the more important duties in church, on the basis of Eve's deception, when Adam is the one accounted as the one through him sin and death entered the world?? And yes, Eve WAS deceived. But Paul really blames Adam for the sin. Adam knew it was wrong, heard first hand from God that he was not to eat of the tree, before Eve was created. Again, Romans clearly deals with this issue.
"So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed. 15 But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many! 16 And the gift is not like the one who sinned. For judgment, resulting from the one transgression, led to condemnation, but the gracious gift from the many failures led to justification. 17 For if, by the transgression of the one man, death reigned through the one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ!" Romans 5:12-17[FONT="]
[/FONT]
How much do certain men not want to look at this entire passage, which is about HOW sin entered the world. Clearly it says, through ONE man - Adam.
But, hallelujah, although death reigned because of the sin of Adam, "how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ!"
Christ has given me new life, and has set me free to follow him and to walk with him. He has called me to school to learn how to serve him better. I will trust God, not the traditions of men, who refuse to look at all the Scriptures, instead of a few isolated and disputed verses, which contradict the rest of the Bible (NT and OT) with regards to the calling of God on women's lives.
PS. Not every woman or man is called of God for leadership roles, or scholarly roles. In fact, at this time, I am certain a lot of women who are called, do not answer that call, because of the myths surrounding women getting a Biblical education. Men far outnumbered women in my seminary. But, women are on the plaque for the Outstanding Greek student, almost every year. (Including me!) Because a woman going to seminary has to be very smart, and fight hard to prove God really did call her. Unlike some of the men, who just went because they didn't want to do anything else. And of course, there were some astounding men, with amazing ministries. It was a delight to work side by side with them. And in my very conservative seminary, for the first time, a woman won the preaching award this year!
I'm looking forward to hearing great things from her!
