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From my experences it has much too with defining words that have had new meaning attached to them. Like the word teach. Change the meaning of one word change the whole direction of the authors intent
Yes woman can prophesy in church, and that IS speaking? It’s the context of 1 Corinthians 14.
The time of the reformation restored the order to where it was before women were segregated from the men. The promise of Joel is in effect.
If we bypass the purpose of time of reformation we lose the value as to the new order.
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
When a woman like a man declares the will of God, it is prophecy. We are given the understanding we preach Christ, the preacher not our own selves. He is the promised one that would give us His understanding and warns of of those who say we do need a an to teach us. So in that way we do not look to a woman or a man.
The teaching role of the church is not to usurp the teaching ministry of Christ.
Even the Son of man when approached as good teacher replied only God is good giving the glory to the promised Holy Spirit.
Women are not allowed to council men in that mixed setting just as men are not to council in private affairs with women other than that of their wives at home.
He has designed the ministry of both the deacon and his wife to take care of private affair between a man and a woman as councilors teaching them how to handle those kinds of situations.
Again the Holy Spirit does the teaching\preaching of His word. We seek his approval not that of man or woman
Yes woman can prophesy in church, and that IS speaking? It’s the context of 1 Corinthians 14.
The time of the reformation restored the order to where it was before women were segregated from the men. The promise of Joel is in effect.
If we bypass the purpose of time of reformation we lose the value as to the new order.
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
When a woman like a man declares the will of God, it is prophecy. We are given the understanding we preach Christ, the preacher not our own selves. He is the promised one that would give us His understanding and warns of of those who say we do need a an to teach us. So in that way we do not look to a woman or a man.
The teaching role of the church is not to usurp the teaching ministry of Christ.
Even the Son of man when approached as good teacher replied only God is good giving the glory to the promised Holy Spirit.
Women are not allowed to council men in that mixed setting just as men are not to council in private affairs with women other than that of their wives at home.
He has designed the ministry of both the deacon and his wife to take care of private affair between a man and a woman as councilors teaching them how to handle those kinds of situations.
Again the Holy Spirit does the teaching\preaching of His word. We seek his approval not that of man or woman
7
well, if He IS as active as ever, you cannot, truthfully, say He does not still handle the spiritual gift giving as per God's instructions
I mean you can say that...but then you cannot say you believe the Holy Spirit is as active as ever He was...what you are actually saying?
you are actually saying the Holy Spirit is semi-retired and possibly thinking of His pension
I do agree that sound doctrine is important...but the doctrine of God...not men
anyway, not gonna play round and round the mulberry bush with you again Roger...you say some good things, but this back and forth is not going to be profitable and this is NOT what the op is about
so, quitting this now as I don't like it myself when someone comes on a thread I started and decides to derail it because they have a captive audience
7
I do agree with much of what you say here...where I would take a harder look, would be in what I bolded above
I don't think scripture is actually saying we do not need anyone to teach us because first off, that would make the gift of teaching, well, probably not even there. further, scripture does say that teachers have more to answer for...many who call themselves teachers were never called to be what they call themselves...along with worship leaders (so called) and 'prophets', these are 'desirable' gifts and so are grabbed even when not given...but I guess that could be a good discussion for another thread
God has already declared His will ... thing is, it is added to, detracted from, or spurious additions made by the nouvelle prophets who declare new revelatory garblings that have nothing to do with God and everything to do with deception
I realize you are not saying these things, and I do basically agree with your post with a few exceptions or observations
I'll leave it at the one for now
but we desperately NEED the Spirit of God and discernment to know His voice from all the others cackling for our attention
thanks
I don't think scripture is actually saying we do not need anyone to teach us because first off, that would make the gift of teaching, well, probably not even there. further, scripture does say that teachers have more to answer for...many who call themselves teachers were never called to be what they call themselves...along with worship leaders (so called) and 'prophets', these are 'desirable' gifts and so are grabbed even when not given...but I guess that could be a good discussion for another thread
God has already declared His will ... thing is, it is added to, detracted from, or spurious additions made by the nouvelle prophets who declare new revelatory garblings that have nothing to do with God and everything to do with deception
I realize you are not saying these things, and I do basically agree with your post with a few exceptions or observations
I'll leave it at the one for now
but we desperately NEED the Spirit of God and discernment to know His voice from all the others cackling for our attention
thanks
I have seen a little of the spirit of what Paul spoke in the verses being talked about. For those not ready to bear it yet, it will just sound ridiculous. But to those who are ready to bear it, they will understand.
Do you remember when Paul said: do you really think God was talking about oxen there?
This is the same as that. We are all the woman, the bride, of Christ. None of us as that woman, are to usurp the role of Holy Spirit as the teacher. Do you really think he was talking about any obedience of flesh? How so if the flesh is always against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh? Did laws given for the flesh ever work? If so, why must the flesh die and the spirit live?
Some will understand this and be ready to bear it.
Do you remember when Paul said: do you really think God was talking about oxen there?
This is the same as that. We are all the woman, the bride, of Christ. None of us as that woman, are to usurp the role of Holy Spirit as the teacher. Do you really think he was talking about any obedience of flesh? How so if the flesh is always against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh? Did laws given for the flesh ever work? If so, why must the flesh die and the spirit live?
Some will understand this and be ready to bear it.
7
I suspect there is more to submission than 'love'...as I noted some posts back. I really do.
any close relationship will reveal the person...but marriage is one of the best examples
I also do not believe that submission is giving way to an angry spirit even if it is right. I lived long enough, been saved long enough (since 5 but not always paying attention) to see the results of something right going wrong because of the spirit in which it was deliverd
this, would be part of discernment, part of experience...which I believe partially gives discernment and when coupled with the gift, results in some in depth and sometimes very telling observations...often best kept to yourself and only prayed about
I have reached the stage in my life where I think it best to part company with some believers...some of whom are no example of what they say they believe....I am well aware of my failings probably better than anyone else although God knows some are very happy to point them out, believing that somehow that elevates them (of course it doesn't and not necessarily any reflection on anyone here)
I have backed off a few things going on in here because I believe I have been told...by the Holy Spirit...to back off and the flip and interesting side of that ...is that some may believe God has answered their prayers by my not participating...and this works the same in real life. (prob will cause a few to go whaaa? here)
some people are walking around with ichabod written over their heads and have no clue and may sound the most vocal in defense of the gospel...but sadly, it is THEIR gospel
I really no longer have expectations of any human being meeting me where I live in the depths of my heart...that may just be God's territory for us anyway
the above prob sounds like rambling here, but it's what I think
any close relationship will reveal the person...but marriage is one of the best examples
I also do not believe that submission is giving way to an angry spirit even if it is right. I lived long enough, been saved long enough (since 5 but not always paying attention) to see the results of something right going wrong because of the spirit in which it was deliverd
this, would be part of discernment, part of experience...which I believe partially gives discernment and when coupled with the gift, results in some in depth and sometimes very telling observations...often best kept to yourself and only prayed about
I have reached the stage in my life where I think it best to part company with some believers...some of whom are no example of what they say they believe....I am well aware of my failings probably better than anyone else although God knows some are very happy to point them out, believing that somehow that elevates them (of course it doesn't and not necessarily any reflection on anyone here)
I have backed off a few things going on in here because I believe I have been told...by the Holy Spirit...to back off and the flip and interesting side of that ...is that some may believe God has answered their prayers by my not participating...and this works the same in real life. (prob will cause a few to go whaaa? here)
some people are walking around with ichabod written over their heads and have no clue and may sound the most vocal in defense of the gospel...but sadly, it is THEIR gospel
I really no longer have expectations of any human being meeting me where I live in the depths of my heart...that may just be God's territory for us anyway
the above prob sounds like rambling here, but it's what I think
My assumption is that this statement of yours is based more on the degraded life of the church not walking in the Spirit much. In other words, its based more on what you see with your eyes than on scripture. But I would like to hear if you have at least two, hopefully three, scriptures that teach us this.
7
I want to add something to the above quote from my own post 909
when people refuse the truth, God will allow them to go after their desires or lusts...even spiritual sounding ones...and when the birds come home to roost, that may be the only way they will finally come to knowledge of the truth
a dead end, when someone truly believes they are following after God and they find out that they are not, is one of the most painful experiences a believer can have
we do have people in this very forum who are on that very path now...obviously not going to name anyone and not directing this at anyone because you can take that principal anywhere you go...any church...fellowship...relationship...home meeting
it's just a fact
by the time someone comes along and tells you (anyone) they have a 'word' for you that God has laid on their heart...if it is genuine...it is because you (anyone) refuse to hear it from God yourself
when people refuse the truth, God will allow them to go after their desires or lusts...even spiritual sounding ones...and when the birds come home to roost, that may be the only way they will finally come to knowledge of the truth
a dead end, when someone truly believes they are following after God and they find out that they are not, is one of the most painful experiences a believer can have
we do have people in this very forum who are on that very path now...obviously not going to name anyone and not directing this at anyone because you can take that principal anywhere you go...any church...fellowship...relationship...home meeting
it's just a fact
by the time someone comes along and tells you (anyone) they have a 'word' for you that God has laid on their heart...if it is genuine...it is because you (anyone) refuse to hear it from God yourself
7
uh...not sure I follow you but if I do understand what you are saying? I would have to say not at all
what I see with my eyes is confirmation of scripture...otherwise it is the caboose instead of the engine leading
always best to just ask...I usually hold more than one thought on something but do not express it even in 'real time'
my head just works that way
the entire Bible teaches us this
where does it say in scripture the Holy Spirit left town? to be sure, He has left some churches
but I know many here do not believe that...so....
I am aware, and tiredly so, of those who use the following verse to say certain things have ceased. but notice, again, how the more 'respectful' gifts like teaching are held onto...very close to the heart...while babblers are distained...
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. I Cor. 13:8
you would sometimes think that knowledge has been done away with....but thankfully it has not and neither have the other two become extinct
It is completely nonsensical that God's words to Eve in Genesis 3:16 are commands in the same sense of the Levitical laws or ten commandments. Why didn't God say to Adam, whom He addressed moments later, that he shall rule over his wife? Further, why would God "command" that women suffer in childbirth? Do you consider that women who receive epidurals are committing sin in doing so?
I hope not. If that is truly what you believe, you need to give your head a shake.
Consider that Genesis 3:16 is a statement of certain consequence, not of commandment. God cursed the ground and the serpent; he told Adam and Eve what the consequences of their actions would be.
Therefore, "he shall rule over you" is what would happen. The history of men ruling harshly over women in all cultures is fulfillment of this. As Christian men, we should be proclaiming redemption to Eve's descendants, not adding to their suffering.
I hope not. If that is truly what you believe, you need to give your head a shake.
Consider that Genesis 3:16 is a statement of certain consequence, not of commandment. God cursed the ground and the serpent; he told Adam and Eve what the consequences of their actions would be.
Therefore, "he shall rule over you" is what would happen. The history of men ruling harshly over women in all cultures is fulfillment of this. As Christian men, we should be proclaiming redemption to Eve's descendants, not adding to their suffering.
1 Cor 13:8 three actions of the Holy Spirit changed.
The Holy Spirit is still working in the hearts of men bringing them to Christ. John 16:8-11
The Holy Spirit is still filling born again believers to serve and testify of the saving grace of Christ.
Of course its not the first time I have said this.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Holy Spirit is still working in the hearts of men bringing them to Christ. John 16:8-11
The Holy Spirit is still filling born again believers to serve and testify of the saving grace of Christ.
Of course its not the first time I have said this.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
uh...not sure I follow you but if I do understand what you are saying? I would have to say not at all
what I see with my eyes is confirmation of scripture...otherwise it is the caboose instead of the engine leading
always best to just ask...I usually hold more than one thought on something but do not express it even in 'real time'
my head just works that way
the entire Bible teaches us this
where does it say in scripture the Holy Spirit left town? to be sure, He has left some churches
but I know many here do not believe that...so....
I am aware, and tiredly so, of those who use the following verse to say certain things have ceased. but notice, again, how the more 'respectful' gifts like teaching are held onto...very close to the heart...while babblers are distained...
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. I Cor. 13:8
you would sometimes think that knowledge has been done away with....but thankfully it has not and neither have the other two become extinct
what I see with my eyes is confirmation of scripture...otherwise it is the caboose instead of the engine leading
always best to just ask...I usually hold more than one thought on something but do not express it even in 'real time'
my head just works that way
the entire Bible teaches us this
where does it say in scripture the Holy Spirit left town? to be sure, He has left some churches
but I know many here do not believe that...so....
I am aware, and tiredly so, of those who use the following verse to say certain things have ceased. but notice, again, how the more 'respectful' gifts like teaching are held onto...very close to the heart...while babblers are distained...
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. I Cor. 13:8
you would sometimes think that knowledge has been done away with....but thankfully it has not and neither have the other two become extinct
What isn't good is seeing with your eyes that the Holy Spirit does not seem to work as powerfully as He did and so saying it is fact that He doesn't, and then finding scriptures to prove that what you see is His will. Because that is just trying to conform scripture to what your eyes see, instead of what your eyes seeing confirming scripture.
So if it's true that we don't see the Spirit working as powerfully, I wouldn't search for scripture other than to see why it is so and try to gain back what we've lost. I wouldn't just assume it's His will to not work as powerfully.
Has my own rambling not made sense...?