If an unsaved person would have heard this from you -- He has already freely given [healing] through the Son. It is yours! -- he would not have doubted that just as eternal life is a free gift to the sinner who believes, so is physical healing. And he would have been sorely disappointed if he was sitting in a wheelchair and nothing happened. Do you see your dilemma and do you see why you cannot preach this Gospel of healing in the Atonement?
Healing through the Son
- Thread starter joaniemarie
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We should worship God in Spirit, but not as spirit. You are a Spirit? Everybody has a Spirit, also the unbeliever has a Spirit. A human has body, soul and spirit. Both the believer and the unbeliever can live without deseases and die in old age. Both a believer and an unbeliever can suffering at any deaseases and can die at this.
To get a deseases and live with sickness in your eyes is an personell decision?
To get a deseases and live with sickness in your eyes is an personell decision?
Well, First the Bible says those 3 things -World/ flesh/ devil are subject to sin and can't be relied on. The flesh is not spirit so it is totally apposed to anything of the spirit. "neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned" The flesh has to be "mastered" not by human will power. It's mastered by us CHOOSING to rely and walk in the spirit and not in the flesh the way we used to before we were born again.
Jesus defeated the power of sin and now we have to acquire that promise by faith and live it out BY walking IN the new man the new creation in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
We cannot defeat the flesh with the flesh. It just doesn't work because the flesh is diametrically apposed to the Spirit and vs/vs.
Read Romans 8:1-20 and then read the rest. There is no condemnation when we believe the truth of that by walking in the spirit and not in the flesh. The flesh will feel condemned and it will fear God. The flesh has a distorted confused idea of who God is.
The truth is the truth but we won't live it out unless we believe it in our own personal lives. God loves us but if we don't believe He loves us then we will not respond to His love or benefit from what His love has given us in Christ. Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit who WILL LEAD US INTO ALL TRUTH. So if we are worried we don't ever have to be.
Even if you don't like the Amplified Bible you asked what I thought so I prefer the wordiness of the way this translation brings out and "amplifies" the words. Read it and tell me what you think.
8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[SUP][a][/SUP]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[SUP][b][/SUP]subdued, overcame, [SUP][c][/SUP]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][d][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][e][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][f][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
[SUP]
7 [/SUP][That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God’s Law; indeed it cannot.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And if the Spirit of Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, [then] He Who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also restore to life your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies through His Spirit Who dwells in you.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are debtors, but not to the flesh [we are not obligated to our carnal nature], to live [a life ruled by the standards set up by the dictates] of the flesh.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]And if we are [His] children, then we are [His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His inheritance with Him]; only we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.
Yes, we are spirit beings housed in a human flesh and blood body. Unsaved people are not born again new creations so they cannot respond to truth. They have a body and a soul but their spirit man is dead. We used to be like that but now we are alive to God. New creations... all things are made new.
We are not subject to things we used to be when we were unsaved and had no power to walk any differently. But many Christians don't know this authority Jesus gave them and are allowing themselves to be subject to their flesh when Jesus has freed us from the power of our old human nature called the flesh. We can't depend on our flesh and need to know this fact. Then make the decision daily to walk in the spirit.
Last edited:
U
Costi Hinn nephew of Benny Hinn (from the Toronto area btw) has written a book titled "Defining Deception"
As someone who had a first hand view of deception and is now a born again believer he has a lot of insight to offer.
Here is an excerpt from his website,
II. GOD DOESN’T HEAL BASED SOLELY ON FAITH Can you “believe” your way into getting healed? This view on faith healing was first popularized in the early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century by faith healing evangelists. They made a lot of money off people by making them repeat customers to their healing crusades. If someone didn’t get healed, the faith healer blamed the sick person and told them to come back with more faith – and usually an offering (we’ll deal with that one next). Fortunately, the Bible clears the air on this abusive teaching. When Jesus healed the cripple at Bethesda, the man didn’t have a clue who Jesus was, let alone have enough faith (John 5:13). In Luke 5:17-26 Jesus did heal based on faith – He healed a man’s soul through salvation. When the Pharisees questioned His authority to forgive the lame man’s sins, He healed the man to prove it. Other times Jesus was in fact moved by people’s faith, but this doesn’t mean that His healing touch was bound to whether or not they had enough faith. When the woman with issue of blood crawled through the crowd just to touch the hem of Christ’s robe, He felt power leave Him (Luke 8:46). In this case, as in others throughout the gospels, Jesus is moved by her faith and heals her, but He tells her of the true healing that has taken place when He says, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace” (Luke 8:48). Jesus calls her “daughter” because He has offered the greatest healing of all; she is now part of the family of God. So can the healing power of Christ be coerced by faith as a force? Not even close. Jesus is the Great Physician who places a priority on healing the wayward sinner’s soul, more than He does the physical body.
https://definingdeception.com/2017/06/30/is-it-always-gods-will-to-heal/
https://churchleaders.com/news/312317-benny-hinns-nephew-rejects-prosperity-to-find-the-gospel.html
As someone who had a first hand view of deception and is now a born again believer he has a lot of insight to offer.
Here is an excerpt from his website,
II. GOD DOESN’T HEAL BASED SOLELY ON FAITH Can you “believe” your way into getting healed? This view on faith healing was first popularized in the early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century by faith healing evangelists. They made a lot of money off people by making them repeat customers to their healing crusades. If someone didn’t get healed, the faith healer blamed the sick person and told them to come back with more faith – and usually an offering (we’ll deal with that one next). Fortunately, the Bible clears the air on this abusive teaching. When Jesus healed the cripple at Bethesda, the man didn’t have a clue who Jesus was, let alone have enough faith (John 5:13). In Luke 5:17-26 Jesus did heal based on faith – He healed a man’s soul through salvation. When the Pharisees questioned His authority to forgive the lame man’s sins, He healed the man to prove it. Other times Jesus was in fact moved by people’s faith, but this doesn’t mean that His healing touch was bound to whether or not they had enough faith. When the woman with issue of blood crawled through the crowd just to touch the hem of Christ’s robe, He felt power leave Him (Luke 8:46). In this case, as in others throughout the gospels, Jesus is moved by her faith and heals her, but He tells her of the true healing that has taken place when He says, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace” (Luke 8:48). Jesus calls her “daughter” because He has offered the greatest healing of all; she is now part of the family of God. So can the healing power of Christ be coerced by faith as a force? Not even close. Jesus is the Great Physician who places a priority on healing the wayward sinner’s soul, more than He does the physical body.
https://definingdeception.com/2017/06/30/is-it-always-gods-will-to-heal/
https://churchleaders.com/news/312317-benny-hinns-nephew-rejects-prosperity-to-find-the-gospel.html
I understand why you share this, but I don’t agree at all with this guy. Nothing against you. 
Jesus didn’t say He healed her, He said power went through Him. In my opinion: This man is quoting Scripture, but not letting it speak for itself. His conclusion is: can Christ be coerced by faith as a force, has so many incorrect suppositions. God doesn’t need to pressured or coerced to heal us. His name is Jehovah Raphe, it’s His nature to heal. Jesus revealed the Father and He healed all who came to Him. I can show an example where it was God’s will to heal, and the unbelief of His disciples did limit healing. So in my opinion he’s not taking the entire Scripture into account and he’s not letting it speak for itself. And his paradigm is that healing crusades are to get customers? Come on. I can’t fathom why a believer would think it’s okay to label all healing crusades like this. Jesus did healing crusades, was He trying to get customers? Of course not! So why would someone assume this about people? Our words reveal our own heart far more than they reveal other people’s. I have friends who have seen blind eyes open in remote villages. And highly unreached nations of people are being saved. And set free. I hope we we could stand together and celebrate what God is doing not stand against it. But whatever God be glorified.
Jesus didn’t say He healed her, He said power went through Him. In my opinion: This man is quoting Scripture, but not letting it speak for itself. His conclusion is: can Christ be coerced by faith as a force, has so many incorrect suppositions. God doesn’t need to pressured or coerced to heal us. His name is Jehovah Raphe, it’s His nature to heal. Jesus revealed the Father and He healed all who came to Him. I can show an example where it was God’s will to heal, and the unbelief of His disciples did limit healing. So in my opinion he’s not taking the entire Scripture into account and he’s not letting it speak for itself. And his paradigm is that healing crusades are to get customers? Come on. I can’t fathom why a believer would think it’s okay to label all healing crusades like this. Jesus did healing crusades, was He trying to get customers? Of course not! So why would someone assume this about people? Our words reveal our own heart far more than they reveal other people’s. I have friends who have seen blind eyes open in remote villages. And highly unreached nations of people are being saved. And set free. I hope we we could stand together and celebrate what God is doing not stand against it. But whatever God be glorified.
Last edited:
U
Yes God does many things and sometimes it is not to heal and sometimes it is.
This is such a North American modern day mindset of the idyllic life, free of pain and suffering, sadly it has been adopted by the the Christian culture as well.
We may suffer, we may not, but in the end it is His glory that matters not ours.
V. GOD SOVEREIGNLY HEALED THEN AND HE STILL SOVEREIGNLY HEALS TODAY So does God still heal today? As an immutable (unchanging) and sovereign God – of course He does! His will cannot be thwarted and there are those who He has decreed to be healed during life on earth. But He does so according to His will and He does so for His glory. Jesus prayed, “Thy will be done”, multiple times throughout His life and ministry on Earth. At one point, He even prayed this when He was sweating blood (Luke 22:42). Under the greatest weight a man has ever carried, and in preparation to take the sin of the world on His divine shoulders, God the Son still submitted His will to the glorious plan and purpose of the Father’s will. This is a model that should resonate with every believer today. Can God heal? Yes. But sometimes He will glorify Himself through your suffering, your sickness, and even your death. This counter-intuitive way of thinking is foreign to this world. No wonder Peter called us foreigners (1 Peter 2:11), and James said to count it all joy when you encounter trials (James 1:2). Just think of how God will use your story for His glory – no matter what your temporal circumstance may be. That is the greatest honor in this life. Greater than even a healing.
https://definingdeception.com/2017/06/30/is-it-always-gods-will-to-heal/
This is such a North American modern day mindset of the idyllic life, free of pain and suffering, sadly it has been adopted by the the Christian culture as well.
We may suffer, we may not, but in the end it is His glory that matters not ours.
V. GOD SOVEREIGNLY HEALED THEN AND HE STILL SOVEREIGNLY HEALS TODAY So does God still heal today? As an immutable (unchanging) and sovereign God – of course He does! His will cannot be thwarted and there are those who He has decreed to be healed during life on earth. But He does so according to His will and He does so for His glory. Jesus prayed, “Thy will be done”, multiple times throughout His life and ministry on Earth. At one point, He even prayed this when He was sweating blood (Luke 22:42). Under the greatest weight a man has ever carried, and in preparation to take the sin of the world on His divine shoulders, God the Son still submitted His will to the glorious plan and purpose of the Father’s will. This is a model that should resonate with every believer today. Can God heal? Yes. But sometimes He will glorify Himself through your suffering, your sickness, and even your death. This counter-intuitive way of thinking is foreign to this world. No wonder Peter called us foreigners (1 Peter 2:11), and James said to count it all joy when you encounter trials (James 1:2). Just think of how God will use your story for His glory – no matter what your temporal circumstance may be. That is the greatest honor in this life. Greater than even a healing.
https://definingdeception.com/2017/06/30/is-it-always-gods-will-to-heal/
I understand why you share this, but I don’t agree at all with this guy. Nothing against you.
Jesus didn’t say He healed her, He said power went through Him. In my opinion: This man is quoting Scripture, but not letting it speak for itself. His conclusion is: can Christ be coerced by faith as a force, has so many incorrect suppositions. God doesn’t need to pressured or coerced to heal us. His name is Jehovah Raphe, it’s His nature to heal. Jesus revealed the Father and He healed all who came to Him. I can show an example where it was God’s will to heal, and the unbelief of His disciples did limit healing. So in my opinion he’s not taking the entire Scripture into account and he’s not letting it speak for itself. And his paradigm is that healing crusades are to get customers? Come on. I can’t fathom why a believer would think it’s okay to label all healing crusades like this. Jesus did healing crusades, was He trying to get customers? Of course not! So why would someone assume this about people? Our words reveal our own heart far more than they reveal other people’s. I have friends who have seen blind eyes open in remote villages. And highly unreached nations of people are being saved. And set free. I hope we we could stand together and celebrate what God is doing not stand against it. But whatever God be glorified.
Jesus didn’t say He healed her, He said power went through Him. In my opinion: This man is quoting Scripture, but not letting it speak for itself. His conclusion is: can Christ be coerced by faith as a force, has so many incorrect suppositions. God doesn’t need to pressured or coerced to heal us. His name is Jehovah Raphe, it’s His nature to heal. Jesus revealed the Father and He healed all who came to Him. I can show an example where it was God’s will to heal, and the unbelief of His disciples did limit healing. So in my opinion he’s not taking the entire Scripture into account and he’s not letting it speak for itself. And his paradigm is that healing crusades are to get customers? Come on. I can’t fathom why a believer would think it’s okay to label all healing crusades like this. Jesus did healing crusades, was He trying to get customers? Of course not! So why would someone assume this about people? Our words reveal our own heart far more than they reveal other people’s. I have friends who have seen blind eyes open in remote villages. And highly unreached nations of people are being saved. And set free. I hope we we could stand together and celebrate what God is doing not stand against it. But whatever God be glorified.
U
Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. Andthe prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.”
Within the wider context of James, the focus here is the prayer of faith, and within context again, the word “save” in this context refers to salvation from sin, spiritual deliverance, rather than physical deliverance from illness.
Within the wider context of James, the focus here is the prayer of faith, and within context again, the word “save” in this context refers to salvation from sin, spiritual deliverance, rather than physical deliverance from illness.
Actually I'm sorry, I wanted to write more than my simple question, but I was at 1% battery life. That question was my head, but sometimes I need time to translate my heart, so my heart is heard and not just my head. I actually love discussing Scripture.
Okay so real quick in response to what you said. And then I'll continue my thoughts.
So let's pull up the entire context.
James 5-
13Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.[SUP]b[/SUP]17Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.
So James is referencing a lot of things here: suffering, cheerfulness, and sickness. And in regards to sickness he says have someone pray over him. The focus here is the prayer of faith... so that indicates that there is a prayer without faith... also as we continue through it, it says if he committed sins, which means just because a person is sick doesn't mean they have unconfessed sins. And it also shows us the focus of this Scripture isn't simply spiritual wholeness, but also physical wholeness. And what's interesting is that it goes on to show Elijah prayed for "no rain"... which means this focus isn't even on a spiritual answer, but also physical signs and wonders. I find that pretty intriguing.
So here's my thoughts;
I don't know any Scripture that Jesus said your lack of faith hasn't made you well, but there is Scripture that says your faith has made you well. So I believe faith can come from the one receiving and the one praying. In regards to praying, the focus of faith is on the one who's doing the praying, so if I pray for someone and I don't see healing, I don't tell the person it was their lack of faith. Because Jesus tells the one who prays to have faith. So I carry that on myself and I seek the Author and Finisher (Jesus) to give me greater grace and revelation so His people might be free. And every day I continue in what I have been given.
Last edited:
And we should take this as the norm?
If so, every genuine believer should be in 100% health with no disabilities. I have not seen this, and neither has anyone else. So have you?
However, Paul's teaching on the Gospel is found in Romans 10 (in addition to other passages), and you will not find any mention of physical healing there.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [NO MENTION OF HEALING]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [NO MENTION OF HEALING]
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We could look at Titus 3:4-8, and again we will not find any mention of healing (much as we all would like):
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [NEW BIRTH]
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
The fact that Christ was the Divine Healer BEFORE He was crucified confirms that it is not physical healing that is in the Atonement, but the healing of the soul and the quickening of the spirit through the New Birth.
If so, every genuine believer should be in 100% health with no disabilities. I have not seen this, and neither has anyone else. So have you?
However, Paul's teaching on the Gospel is found in Romans 10 (in addition to other passages), and you will not find any mention of physical healing there.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [NO MENTION OF HEALING]
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [NO MENTION OF HEALING]
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We could look at Titus 3:4-8, and again we will not find any mention of healing (much as we all would like):
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [NEW BIRTH]
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
The fact that Christ was the Divine Healer BEFORE He was crucified confirms that it is not physical healing that is in the Atonement, but the healing of the soul and the quickening of the spirit through the New Birth.
I can’t believe you missed the whole point!
The point, is we are sick and tired of your copy and pastes. I dont’t think anyone reads them, except your tight little circle. I am responding to this post, because it is your own words. But I am not going to copy and paste or post videos no one watches or cares about.
I also know some people don’t read my posts because they are long and complicated. Their loss!
So, Vine’s is old and dated. Strong’s is a backwards concordance from the KJV. So, all the words are in English, and he puts them back into Greek or Hebrew. I think I was saved about 6 years, when I got a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. I was determined to prove that Christians should never drink alcohol, because I knew I never would again.
Well, if you work it backwards and sideways, you CAN prove God doesn’t want anyone to drink alcohol, except for a few verses. That is because Hebrew has an alcoholic beverage and a “new” wine ie non-alcoholic whereas Greek only has one word. I think it was only a few years ago, I found that study, and realized how abysmally ignorant I was for using a Concordance to make a doctrine going from English to Hebrew. I did read every single verse, but I didn’t use context, either, was the second flaw in my plan. Now, I know!
Now, God personally told me never to drink again. I personally think it is the best idea for Christians and their witness. And to be drunk in the spirit, not on wine. But, it is not a doctrine to die on, and I’m not even going to spend the time actually going through those verses in the Greek and Hebrew, either.
The way you study the Bible in the original languages is through a lexicon. That means you must learn the alphabet in Hebrew and Greek. And basic information. Suddenly, it actually means so much more. I use Bauer (BDAG for Greek) and B-D-B Brown-Driver-Briggs for Hebrew.
If you want to be a teacher and make up doctrines, you are going to be totally off using a KJV Concordance like Strong’s, just so you know.
PS. I try to stay away from making up new doctrines, and just settle for reading the Bible and letting it speak for itself.
