Healing through the Son

[LPT]

I agree with this statement: It's our responsibility to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show us how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and how to live our lives here Gal.2:20

As far as going in and trying to twist the Bible around to make it say what you want...You can call that whatever you wan't...But it is plainly not teaching through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit and the word matches up. If the Word says God allowed Satan to tempt Job, then guess what...He did and the Holy Spirit isn't gonna go in a rebuke the Word of God.

As far as Job being sinless all of his life, I never said that. All I know is what the Word of God says and that is Job was a righteous man, God allowed Satan to tempt him, and through his trials he sinned not. He wasn't afflicted and tested due to sin...No, the Word of God says quite the contrary...

Job 1
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

So word of caution to you, if something is telling anyone that this scripture isn't true...then you can be sure it ain't the Holy Spirit...Just saying...

Good post and you are correct indeed, God removed the hedge protection around Job and give power over job into the hands of satan to do what ever he wanted too but satan couldn't harm job that was the only requirement, (job 1:12)

If anybody thinks God didn't remove the blessing protection and allowed job's faith to be tested is not understanding the scriptures or can't see it.

 

[Undoubting]

Please don't be surprised if what you say is not accepted. Many here on this thread have not been taught about healing in that way and believe it to be heresy as shocking as that is. For many believers healings are few and far between., when in reality healing is happening daily and often to God's people and those around God's people. I believe a bit differently than you because I believe in healing in the atonement. I believe God wants us all to be healed and made whole.

But when you have not been taught that and have been taught to believe it is God who gives you sickness, you cannot look for Jesus to be your Healer because to do so makes you a heretic. As crazy as that sounds it goes on here every day.

The ministries you mention like John G. Lake are called false teachers deceiving and hurting the flock as crazy as that sounds it goes on every day here. Many people here don't understand that all things in our lives now as Christians ARE supernatural because we are now new creations in Christ (un natural to this world) and we walk now by faith not by sight. Yet many do not believe this on this thread. In fact., many here are like I was and rarely see Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit in their day to day lives.

I used to be apposed to these supernatural truths by not any more. I see Him do miracles each day and know He will do even more as I become more intimately acquainted with Jesus and what He has done. He came to make us whole in every way. But when believers don't believe that., the Holy Spirit will not force them. We can present the truth but whether some accept it is up to them.

I fully understand that many don't believe that healing can be done in Christ Jesus' authority, similar to the acts done in the Apostolic movement. I often hear the dispensationalist argument. While, I would agree that God's covenants are different through the OT, the new covenant created when Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave has not been removed or altered. Therefore, healing, casting out demons, raising from the dead and prophetic gifts are all attainable.

It all comes down to belief and understanding Christ's authority is yours when you accept him as your Savior. The Bible repetitively chastises for unbelief. By Christ's stripes we are healed. It's already been done. Not believing in this amazing gift from Christ is a sin.

I think also, that many Christians do not understand that the demonic influence is very real. Christians have been indoctrinated to think that demons are not real, or at least they can't affect a believer. This is definitely not the case. Also, there is a huge agenda to remove hell from the equation altogether, where everyone gets into heaven, regardless of their life on Earth. I would think that most here do not believe that hell doesn't exist or are universalists, though. The mega churches seem to be gravitating to this false doctrine which is very sad.

This all being said, we are warned in Revelation about signs and wonders done by evil ones in the name of Jesus. We are instructed to test spirits, though. Anyone casting out demons has to be using the authority of our Savior. After all, a house divided cannot stand.

Another aspect of unbelief is this notion that 'if it's God's will' then it will be done. I'm certainly not arguing against God's will being absolute, however, we have already been told that we can do anything that Christ Jesus did and more, even with a mustard seed of belief. I can't count all the times I've heard people with good intentions pray for sick and dying with the pretense, "If it's your will, God..." The thing is, that it is His will for us to be healed and free of demons. Also, why would we need to pray for anyone? If God wanted them healed, He would have done it, without our prayers. "Ask and you shall receive."

 

[Undoubting]

"Blasphemy" ? Its certainly not blasphemy to say Job was a sinner just like us. Jesus was the one who was tempted on all counts but without sin. Not Job. Job was a sinner just like the rest of us.

If you're on the planet you will deal with lots of differing viewpoints on all kinds of matters. And yes., even the Bible and different viewpoints about Job and Paul's thorn in the flesh and Ananias and Sapphira and miracles, etc... etc... It's our responsibility to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show us how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and how to live our lives here Gal.2:20

Just saying you don't like what another Christian believes and calling it blasphemy doesn't cut it.

The underlying message of Job was that God doesn't want works, He wants us. Job was righteous in the fact that he dotted his I's and crossed his T's with all the works he did for God. However, Job did not understand what God truly wanted of him. God wanted Job to be with Him. God wasn't some jackpot in the sky to ask for wealth, health and prosperity. He is our Abba Father. Just like an earthly dad, we want our children to have a relationship with us, not ask for stuff. I think this message gets lost on most. God allowed for the Satan ('one who opposes') to take away Job's wealth and health so Job could understand who God is. It's an amazing story of love and a lesson for us all.

 

[joaniemarie]

I fully understand that many don't believe that healing can be done in Christ Jesus' authority, similar to the acts done in the Apostolic movement. I often hear the dispensationalist argument. While, I would agree that God's covenants are different through the OT, the new covenant created when Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave has not been removed or altered. Therefore, healing, casting out demons, raising from the dead and prophetic gifts are all attainable.

It all comes down to belief and understanding Christ's authority is yours when you accept him as your Savior. The Bible repetitively chastises for unbelief. By Christ's stripes we are healed. It's already been done. Not believing in this amazing gift from Christ is a sin.

I think also, that many Christians do not understand that the demonic influence is very real. Christians have been indoctrinated to think that demons are not real, or at least they can't affect a believer. This is definitely not the case. Also, there is a huge agenda to remove hell from the equation altogether, where everyone gets into heaven, regardless of their life on Earth. I would think that most here do not believe that hell doesn't exist or are universalists, though. The mega churches seem to be gravitating to this false doctrine which is very sad.

This all being said, we are warned in Revelation about signs and wonders done by evil ones in the name of Jesus. We are instructed to test spirits, though. Anyone casting out demons has to be using the authority of our Savior. After all, a house divided cannot stand.

Another aspect of unbelief is this notion that 'if it's God's will' then it will be done. I'm certainly not arguing against God's will being absolute, however, we have already been told that we can do anything that Christ Jesus did and more, even with a mustard seed of belief. I can't count all the times I've heard people with good intentions pray for sick and dying with the pretense, "If it's your will, God..." The thing is, that it is His will for us to be healed and free of demons. Also, why would we need to pray for anyone? If God wanted them healed, He would have done it, without our prayers. "Ask and you shall receive."

I agree with you Undoubting. The devil has no power over us but what we give him. What he did to Adam and Eve in the garden he is still doing to people and Christians today. God gave authority over the earth to Adam and Eve and they willingly believed the lie from the enemy that God was not for them but against them and holding back good them.

People can dress it up in religious dressing but it's still the same message... God does not always do good but He also sometimes chooses to do evil. No never.

 

[Undoubting]

Here is a wonderful explanation of the Book of Job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZKuixGmiMw&t=1115s

 

[joaniemarie]

The underlying message of Job was that God doesn't want works, He wants us. Job was righteous in the fact that he dotted his I's and crossed his T's with all the works he did for God. However, Job did not understand what God truly wanted of him. God wanted Job to be with Him. God wasn't some jackpot in the sky to ask for wealth, health and prosperity. He is our Abba Father. Just like an earthly dad, we want our children to have a relationship with us, not ask for stuff. I think this message gets lost on most. God allowed for the Satan ('one who opposes') to take away Job's wealth and health so Job could understand who God is. It's an amazing story of love and a lesson for us all.

Yes, God wants relationship with us. He wants us to desire the Giver not the things He gives. But remember... we love God because He first loved us... Herein is love... not that we love God but that He loves us. He leads the way on how to be and how to do.

He is a good and perfect parent., God gives abundantly and He wants His children to understand that that is His nature to care for and provide for them., His love and grace poured out in His Son paid completely for all those blessings and provisions involved in this so great salvation. Wholeness., completeness in His Son.

He doesn't want us to go find our needs met in other places. He wants us to come to Him for all we have need for. He is our source. And it pleases Him when we trust and rely on Him.

 

[1ofthem]

Why did Job repent? Wasn't it for not understanding why he went through the trials he did?

Job was taught that if you did good then you got good and if you did bad then you got bad. So when all the calamities came upon him he could not understand what was going on.

I read an article that summed it up pretty well, in my opinion:

https://bibleask.org/the-bible-says-job-repented-what-was-jobs-sin/

"Job’s experience taught him the meaning of faith. His vision of God enabled him to surrender to the divine will. His commitment to God is now unaffected by his circumstances. He no longer expects temporal blessings as an evidence of Heaven’s favor. He now fully trusts in God’s wisdom and dealings."

 

[joaniemarie]

Good post and you are correct indeed, God removed the hedge protection around Job and give power over job into the hands of satan to do what ever he wanted too but satan couldn't harm job that was the only requirement, (job 1:12)

If anybody thinks God didn't remove the blessing protection and allowed job's faith to be tested is not understanding the scriptures or can't see it.

I believe we remove ourselves from God's protection when we decide to live by our own wits in our own power and understanding. God doesn't force us to trust Him and believe Him and to take from His super abounding provision. He allows us to make a daily choice. He doesn't zap us nor does He take His hand off of us. We decide to trust in our own limited understanding and reasoning when walk away from His provisions.

 

[joaniemarie]

Why did Job repent? Wasn't it for not understanding why he went through the trials he did?

Job was taught that if you did good then you got good and if you did bad then you got bad. So when all the calamities came upon him he could not understand what was going on.

I read an article that summed it up pretty well, in my opinion:

https://bibleask.org/the-bible-says-job-repented-what-was-jobs-sin/

"Job’s experience taught him the meaning of faith. His vision of God enabled him to surrender to the divine will. His commitment to God is now unaffected by his circumstances. He no longer expects temporal blessings as an evidence of Heaven’s favor. He now fully trusts in God’s wisdom and dealings."

Read your link and must say I disagree what it says that God doesn't want us to go to Him for all our provisions. He DOES want us to RUN to Him for all our needs both spiritually and physically. And we do it in Jesus name and in His authority because Jesus has made us righteous by giving us His righteousness as a free gift. We receive all things by grace through faith.

Now we go to the throne of grace in time of need with great confidence because it is not by our own works of righteousness that we have done., but because of Jesus we have access to all the promises Jesus died to give us both now and forever.

 

[1ofthem]

I believe we remove ourselves from God's protection when we decide to live by our own wits in our own power and understanding. God doesn't force us to trust Him and believe Him and to take from His super abounding provision. He allows us to make a daily choice. He doesn't zap us nor does He take His hand off of us. We decide to trust in our own limited understanding and reasoning when walk away from His provisions.

Yes, we may at times but it is not always the case sometimes we have to go through trials.

Job did not do anything to walk away from God's protection. The scripture is plain on that....God said Job was righteous and without blame.

God let down the hedge to allow Satan to test Job.

And here is what the NT says about trials and testing:

1 Peter 12
[FONT=&quot]12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.[/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

Read your link and must say I disagree that God doesn't want us to go to Him for all our provisions. He does want us to run to Him for all our needs both spiritually and physically. And we do it in Jesus name and in His authority because Jesus has made us righteous by giving us His righteousness as a free gift.

Now we go to the throne of grace in time of need with great confidence because it is not by our own good works and good ideas that we receive anything from God but because of Jesus we have access to all the promises Jesus died to give us both now and forever.

Yes, God will provide, but it is not always exactly what we want or when we want it. God blesses us according to his will. He knows exactly what each and everyone of us needs. We are also told that we should be content with such things as we have. We are to set our affections on things above and have faith in God that he will give us what we need in this life according to his Good and Perfect will.

 

[joaniemarie]

Yes, we may at times but it is not always the case sometimes we have to go through trials.

Job did not do anything to walk away from God's protection. The scripture is plain on that....God said Job was righteous and without blame.

God let down the hedge to allow Satan to test Job.

And here is what the NT says about trials and testing:

1 Peter 12
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

This is a very mixed message... God wants us to be faithful and when you ARE faithful God will zap you?... NO.,nope. The world the flesh and the devil will zap you and as you go through those tribulations and sufferings that the world... flesh and devil send you., you will be more than conquerors through Christ.

Jesus warned us that we would suffer tribulation and persecution in this world when we follow Him by the very fact that the world... flesh...devil are totally apposed to Him and all those who follow Him. He will not cause us to be under tribulations for obeying Him. That is not what I believe the Bible is saying at all.

 

[1ofthem]

This is a very mixed message... God wants us to be faithful and when you ARE faithful God will zap you?... NO.,nope. The world the flesh and the devil will zap you and as you go through those tribulations and sufferings that the world... flesh and devil send you., you will be more than conquerors through Christ.

Jesus warned us that we would suffer tribulation and persecution in this world when we follow Him by the very fact that the world... flesh...devil are totally apposed to Him and all those who follow Him. He will not cause us to be under tribulations for obeying Him. That is not what I believe the Bible is saying at all.

Never said that you are exaggerating. God's doesn't zap us, but he will allow us to be tested and go through trials. The scripture is plain.

 

[joaniemarie]

Yes, God will provide, but it is not always exactly what we want or when we want it. God blesses us according to his will. He knows exactly what each and everyone of us needs. We are also told that we should be content with such things as we have. We are to set our affections on things above and have faith in God that he will give us what we need in this life according to his Good and Perfect will.

When we have a need God will provide. That is His promise. And He provides better than we could ever do for ourselves. His will is better than ours and we learn to trust that He is for us and not against us. We love Him because He first loved us.

If He promises an egg will He give us a snake? no. He is a good and caring Father who has already given us His Son.. how much more these other lesser things "ye of little faith"

 

[joaniemarie]

Never said that you are exaggerating. God's doesn't zap us, but he will allow us to be tested and go through trials. The scripture is plain.

The Scripture is plain that He will make what the world...flesh and devil mean for evil into something good when we trust Him. He doesn't send us evil. He always sends us good because He is always good.

 

[1ofthem]

[FONT=&quot]James 1
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.[/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

The Scripture is plain that He will make what the world...flesh and devil mean for evil into something good when we trust Him. He doesn't send us evil. He always sends us good because He is always good.

Didn't see this before my last post...but yeah, the scripture is plain.

And you are still over exaggerating...I never said God sent us evil. God didn't send Job evil either...did he? No, but he did allow Job to be tested and it is plain that it wasn't because Job was sinning.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are too many points that need to be dealt with in your post, so really all that needs to be said is that your post totally twisted the word of God just to try to support a false doctrine. People need to get the blinders off and start reading the Word of God for what it is... truth.... and not just try to make it line up with their own personal opinions.

It is good to see that you have the discernment to note that joaniemarie is supporting false doctrine. Many others have noted this also and reported her posts, but they continue to remain on CC. According to jm these false doctrines are merely "differences of views" so not a big deal. But when heresies and false teaching are deliberately promoted even after Christians have objected to them, then there is clearly an agenda to promote spiritual confusion. She has mocked me for bringing this to the attention of others, but the truth remains the truth.

 

[joaniemarie]

James 1
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Amen., We can count it all joy because we know we will be delivered and learn more about Jesus. God will be glorified as He shows us His deliverance. Jesus was attacked and even killed but God didn't do that ., evil men... the world..flesh and devil did that.

The World the flesh and the devil will send those divers temptations... and God takes what is meant for evil and works good from it because only God can do that. But God doesn't make evil OR send evil so He can make good come from it.. No., no.

God never tempts us with evil. never. God never sends us evil. God is good... devil is bad.

 

[joaniemarie]

It is good to see that you have the discernment to note that joaniemarie is supporting false doctrine. Many others have noted this also and reported her posts, but they continue to remain on CC. According to jm these false doctrines are merely "differences of views" so not a big deal. But when heresies and false teaching are deliberately promoted even after Christians have objected to them, then there is clearly an agenda to promote spiritual confusion. She has mocked me for bringing this to the attention of others, but the truth remains the truth.

And here you are again crying about my not agreeing with you and some others here. According to you Nehemiah cc isn't doing their job by banning me. I have not been warned or told anything of the sort by CC administrators you accused me of here these many months. I refer you to CCs rules on disagreements

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...eated-discussions-please-read.html#post117444

Re: When you have concerns about vibrant and heated discussions, please read this.

I guess I assumed everyone knew what the essentials are...

Here are examples of the essentials...
(Thise are here to give a general idea of what is essential to the faith, it's not a comprehensive doctrinal statement from this site.)

1. The deity of Jesus.
2. The inspiration and authority of the Bible as found in the 66 books of the Bible.
3. Faith in the crucixition, death and resurrection of Jesus is the only way to reconcile you to relationship with God.
4. Jesus is coming back again!
5. Believers should seek to live for God and not the world.

I may have missed some, but that should give you an idea.

Timing of end times events isn't an essential. Calvinism vs non calvinism isn't an essential. Which version of the Bible to read isn't generally an essential, unless it's a version made by a sect that teaches against the esssentials of the faith.

Those should give you an idea. That list isn't comphrensive. If you have a question about something, send me a CC mail and I'll get back to you on it. ​